List Prices on old Ibanez's

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Author Message   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 2:40 pm:    I was thinking it would be useful/interesting to have a straight, uncomplicated list (like an excel spreadsheet or something) That gave the year and model # in one column and the original suggested retail price or list price of the old Ibanezes in another column. It would be neat to see what they went for then and what they're going for now. With so many models, it's obviously an undertaking that I am incapable of seeing to fruition. Like.... how much did an ar5000 cost back in 1981? Or a vined Scruggs etc. etc. If I had that as a reference, it would make following auctions or sales or stories about Ibanez purchases more interesting to me and it would be a barometer over the years to see how the markets moving. I play my axes, so... really this would just be interesting to me, it has no basis in profit or re-sale for me. I really never intend to sell any of my axes so it's just for curiosity/interest and whatever else the heck I stated above. I know folks around here keep track of certain models and what they go for over the last few years but this is different, it's a suggested retail list, so that's info direct from manufacturer. Did they list this info in the catalogues they put out over the years? Or... the only way you found out is through a dealer?   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 5:47 pm:    Well, Bob, a lot of these old pricelists are available on www.ibanezrules.com http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/price/ The list of 1977 is on Jim Donahues website. I have some pricelists in print, several as pdf (lost several because of a harddisk crash a few years ago), so I don't have all the pdf-files from the late nineties and the early 2000s anymore. But they promised me to send me copies of those files, but they forgot and so did I. But you can find those in dollars on ibanezrules. I had old Gibson and Epiphone pricelist Excel files from Electricsound too, also lost in the crash. And I just saw that all musical instrument activities are transfered to a new (sister?)company called Electric Instruments. I don't know what files are present in their computers. I saw that the scan of the Nashville Customs was NOT complete and everything was pdf, so they work differently (they don't publish in Excel). In general the pricelist and the catalogues were seperate. I got a few from the dealer I always visited as a student - ending in the purchase of my first Fender Stratocaster - and I got Martin and Sigma pricelists from the distributor on my fax machine in the early 90's. I should scan them, because they are on thermal paper and they fade. The prices are NOT directly from the manufacturer in all cases, certainly not in the past. There were enormous price differences on Gibson guitars between Germany and Holland for instance. Fender has its central distribution centre for Europe in Germany now. (Was Arbiter Apeldoorn for Holland), and Gibson had the same plans a few years ago, but I didn't hear much of it since then. There were some job advertisements for Gibson Europe, but there is still stock at the successor of the original Dutch distributor. What's also a source of information for Germany and Holland, is the catalogue of a German musical instrument store call Musik Produktiv. Their anual catalogue is sold in the book stores for 6.20 euros in Holland, 5 euros in Germany. It's really a bible for all kinds of modern instruments. All in euros of course. Ginger   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 8:25 am:    That's all pretty good stuff Ginger. Me, I'm just interested in the Ibanez info. I guess it would be a nightmare to try to compile a one-sheeter in Excel format. Lots of models, lots of years.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:02 am:    A one-sheeter in Excel? Haha... I did that with all sales and purchases of my translation agency once, when I had just started. Man, that tax inspector was really ...... let's say not particularly happy with the font size... I must say, I had a really bad accountant then. I gave him everything in Excel and he was supposed to do all tax forms for me. But he was a drunk in suit, didn't send my forms to the tax office. He really got me into trouble. Luckily the head of the VAT department (my dad's former boss) warned me -indirectly with a code only my dad could understand- to get rid of the guy. At that moment I had VAT bills for 20.000 guilders for just one year. So now you understand how I got so supsicious. You can't even trust your own accountant. Ah, well, you know everything about how little people you can really trust. Anyway, you can print everything on ibanezrules, of course, but what would you waste all that paper for? We cost enough trees already. Haha... Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:21 am:    Ginger in the sprit of your you tube references here is a drunk in a suit... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRyglPyW3I   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:37 am:    I don't want to print it, I want to post it here so it's always here and we can acess it when interested. I'm just interested in IBZ but, it sure would be neat to also see that a Gibby LP went for $200 in 1957 and now I've actually seen them go for $300k. But... it's Ibanez I'd really like to have that reference chart on.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 2:50 pm:    Youtube rating of Mr. W.C. Fields: 2 out of 5. I really don't see what Americans find or found so funny about this man. Ginger   Ibanezkid Username: Ibanezkid Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 3:25 pm:    That was 30 seconds I'll never get back[sigh].   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 9:59 pm:    I never could figure out what Germany saw in Hitler either but to each his own.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 11:12 pm:    Bob, on the acoustic side, the noah james website has some of that info. I think there might be an electric part of this web site: http://www.noahjames.com/vintagepage/acoustic.html   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 7:33 am:    Chaz that would be the HoshinoUSA list prices. Also did you notice the little menu on the left side for every model he has listed both acoustic and electric.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 5:30 pm:    Chaz, JD is the president of Noah James Guitars. And like I said the 1977 pricelist can be found there. Very usefull for the prices of the old jazz boxes for instance: 2355, 2355m, 2455 etc. so that you can see the original price differences between those types. A useful help for estimates. For instance: if an Ibanez jazz guitar that was produced in the same year as the 2355 and it was 125% of the price of a 2355, then a minty one is worth about 125% of the value of a minty 2355. And when it was 75%... you get the picture? But don't mix up jazz box prices and bolt-on solid body prices for instance! Stay within one category of instruments. So don't overgeneralize! I used this method for the calculation of a reasonable estimate of that cherrry red ES-335 model some time ago. It was originally more expensive than the 2355, but it sold for less now, which has to do with the availability of good younger Ibanez thinline jazz guitars (AS models are better known to the public). So even comparing hollow bodies with semi-hollow bodies doesn't work 100%, but it's better than nothing. Ginger   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 9:10 pm:    Freak, I might've missed that. Ginger, that's cool. Tnx. I thought you were talking about a different price list. With IBZ acoustics, though, I don't agree that the original prices of these instruments are relevant for estimating their modern value. Even comparing current prices for one model to another, as Ginger suggests by using percentages of the original price difference, is really pretty dodgy. OK, maybe this works a bit for comparing between very similar models in the same condition -- say between a Concord 670 and a 671. If we're talking about eBay sales here, well, I contend that their auction system doesn't even arrive at a "market" price anyway because of the snipers' last-second bidding. But, that said, even if these were true auctions with lots of participation, each model is going to have some intangible values to the collector that will invalidate comparisons with original prices. Anyway, just food for thought. It certainly doesn't hurt to know this information, but I wouldn't put any weight in it.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 7:19 am:    Chaz, Funny word, "Dodgy"... always make me think of Al Bundy's car... It works within a specific group of instruments: if your compare a 2455 or 2616 to a 2355 for instance, or like in your example two Concords. And then, after you've seen the price differences, try to find out why these differences existed: carved solid versus pressed solid versus laminated tops for instance. Or cheap tuners versus star tuners. Or abalone binding versus black and white binding versus no binding at all. Complicated inlay versus block inlay versus dots. In fact these are all features that justify a higher price. Think of all the work and material they put into it. The main reason that the simpler 2355 is so popular, is because it's just as simple as the Gibson original. All these luxury features of the more expensive Ibanezes weren't on any ES-175. So the "Lawsuit" idea plays an important role in the auction prices of the 2355 and the 2355m. I always TRY to rationalize prices to protect myself against impulse purchases. And with these old price lists and catalogues you have something in your hands, to say "this is reasonable" or "this is pure madness" (I won't mention any examples). In fact I'm trying to control something that is mainly determined by emotions, like mr. Spock rationalizes everything he sees, until his blood start boiling and the inner core of the Vulcan is set free. That's what happens when I really fall in love with a guitar, like with my 2355m in 2003. It's allright when this happens now and then, but not too often. That's one reason my collection contains about 50 instruments (including mandolins etc) and not 500. (I don't know what would happen if I had more money though). Ginger

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