AR500, please opine

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Author Message   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 1:36 pm:    I just won this from eBay France! With shipping, import tax, broker fees, and credit card currency conversion charge, it'll end up right at about $2000.00. Is this a good deal, or did I overpay (again!)? About a week ago, some guy had a sort of beat up one on eBay that he wanted $1799.00 plus shipping for, but it disappeared after a few days. I was going to buy it, but I guess he sold it locally or kept it or something.   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 1:38 pm:    Sorry, here's the item number. Ebay Item #290163541405   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 7:18 pm:    GW...Nice flame on that one ! Id say its a good score for sure, bue I don't read french....any discussion regarding a re-fret ? the picts are hard to see, but I don't think the tabs are present..... Anyway its a beauty !   Dspellman Username: Dspellman Registered: 8-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 7:52 pm:    I had this one scored (I thought) until GW jumped on it in the last few seconds. It was going much lower, right around 855 Euros, and thought I had a fairly reasonable purchase. Oh well, c'est la eBay! I'm wondering, though if one of you expert types could take a look at the higher resolution photos in the seller's link and tell me if I'm seeing things of if those are really cresent-shaped dents to the left of the pickups as you're facing the guitar, and what might have caused them? And finally (wishful thinking by owners of these guitars aside), what's a reasonable price for minty versions of some of these guitars -- AR 500, AR 300, AR 100? I'm seeing them all over the map, though this is by far the highest price I've seen for an AR 500.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 7:56 pm:    I have sold two AR500's for $2,500 each - they were in superb condition. On the low end, I've seen them sell for around $1,300. I've seen many in between. mk   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 8:36 pm:    Lately I'm seeing AR300s (80s vintage) and AR305s going for over $1K regularly (in good condition even higher). Prices on ARs seem to be on the rise. I think you did OK with that score on the AR500. ARs are my favorite Artists in terms of looks and sound.   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 9:03 pm:    Hey, I took a closer look at this guitar and it has a rosewood headstock overlay ! I thought that treatment was limited to the Super Edition models ? AGR..looks like the previous owner had a large ring !   Dspellman Username: Dspellman Registered: 8-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:10 pm:    I'm not sure how a ring would make those marks. That's what I thought of at first, but how would you do it with a ring on the right hand? They're the wrong shape and placement. This is a job for CSI!!!   Dspellman Username: Dspellman Registered: 8-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:18 pm:    Michael and Dave_g -- thanks for the update on pricing. Several of the dealers here in SoCal have had advertised pricing of $1500+ on ratty to medium quality 2622s (haven't really seen many AR 500's around), but privately they're discounting them down to around $1100, with AR300's and 2619s going going for down around $700-800 unless they're pristine. I noticed one very clean CS AR 300 disappear for a $1350 BIN on eBay recently, but another fairly clean one has been languishing at $1180. The German and French ebay offerings have been fairly high, but Japanese Yahoo has had what looked like some good pieces for cheaper prices, but I really don't have a way to get on there (can't read Japanese yet).   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:31 pm:    They look like pick marks to me, from when he was hitting the toggle switch. Anyways, they don't bother me, I can make them less noticeable, if I want. They seem to bother Dspellman more than me, he emailed me after I won it making sure I knew they were there! Cute! I'm happy with the score. As far as refret goes, the pictures from the catalogs I've seen have no nubs. Also, the AR's I've seen on the bay don't have nubs that I recall. It's easier to make 'em without nubs, as the fretboard has to be completely built out, inlayed, radiused, fretted, and bound, before it's glued onto the neck, in order to get the nubs on the frets. The guitars I build don't have nubs on the frets, but I use wood binding too. Nubs don't hold up on the wood binding. I think somewhere along the lines, the nubs were abandoned to speed up the manufacturing process. I could be wrong though. I'll know for sure when I see it, since I can spot a refret a mile away in person, having done several hundred of them myself. Anyways, I love this forum! You guys are all great, very personable, and always seem to have something interesting to say.   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:36 pm:    By the way, Dspellman, dictionary.com has a translator that translates japanese to engish, and vice versa. It's what I used to translate the french page to english so I could read it, as well as to ask questions, and then to give him shipping instructions. I think the guy thought I was French, living in America, 'cuz he was very nice AND polite to me.   Trisound Username: Trisound Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2007 - 11:56 pm:    GW: Interesting little tidbit here. I own two 500's (one AV and the other CS) and mine are pretty close in serial number to your new guitar: My CS: C815898 Your AV: C815930 My AV: C815964 Only 32 guitars separate them on one side and 34 on the other. Pretty cool (IMHO)... Enjoy your new axe!!! P.S. Dave G, both of mine have the rosewood overlay on the headstock as well.   Zenday Username: Zenday Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 1:04 am:    Great looking axe!   Fompsweeva Username: Fompsweeva Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 7:20 am:    That's nothing, I've found guitars online that are one serial away from my AR500 and my AR2000.   Trisound Username: Trisound Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 8:17 am:    Wow! I would have had a hard time passing up the opportunity to buy the 'next' guitar. Amazing that you found them for two different guitars.   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 9:08 am:    Tri, Do your guitars have binding nubs? Just curious.Since they were made in the same month, one before, one after, if both of yours have nubs, mine should too. If the one after has no nubs, but the one before has nubs, then either one of your guitars were refretted, or they abandoned the nubs that month due to fret surface/string sliding off the fret issues, maybe. Dave, I took a closer look at the fretboard pictures last night, and I noticed it has the fancy striped binding on the fretboard, that would be some huge nubs! They may have abandoned the nubs in favor of more fret surface on these guitars as well. The string lines up right on the binding edge, where the nub would start. They probably didn't want the string fretting on the nub, or falling off the fretboard edge. In the guitar description, Monsiour Fabrice stated that nothing had been modified. As he seems to be a sincere and honest individual based on our correspondence, I believe him.   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 1:06 pm:    I have owned and played several dozen of these guitars over the years, and they all had the binding tabs. A re fret is not really a bad thing, its a natural part of the aging of a guitar, they do wear out...like the tires on a car....   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 5:04 pm:    I'm not bummed if it's been refretted, I just wonder why catalog pictures that I've seen have no nubs, then. On this guitar at least, if it had binding nubs, the frets would be laying on the nubs, not the binding, because of how thick the binding is. The only reason I get hung up on nubs is because I like them. I like when stuffs original. Every time a guitar is refretted, that's one less available guitar with nubs in the world from that year. Eventually, there will be no more nubs on these vintage instruments . I've been in the repair business for years, and the dealers who's shops I've worked out of always hammered anyone who came in with a refretted guitar to buy it cheaper as a result. Strangely enough, when they went to sell it after buying it, whenever anyone asked about the frets, the refret didn't hurt the value on that one 'cuz it was so special..... I'm glad I'm independant now.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 6:03 pm:    Sorry D_g...but yer gonna have to show me a pic of those later model AR tabs too...never seen them on a "fatty"...and my '81 AR 500AV has barely ever been played. Skinnies are a different story...   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 6:38 pm:    What's a "fatty" and a "skinny"? My previous post should have said "...the strings would be laying on the nubs, not the frets....".   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 5:10 pm:    Around the time that they switched the model numbers from 26xx to AR prefixed numbers they also made some distinct design changes. Most notable were: 1. increasing the thickness of the body, thus the "skinny" to "fat" description. 2. how far into the body the neck was attached. This affected the overall length of the guitar. Scale length remained the same by moving the bridge back. 3. more pronounced "bump" at the neck joint. Ibanez still called it a "Smooth-heel". To be more accurate, we tend to call it the "Smooth-heel II" joint. 4. changing from Super 80s to Super 58s. The change over to new design specs wasn't clean. We've discovered there was a small transition period where some of these features overlapped each other.   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 5:36 pm:    Thanx for the info. I just want to make sure my Ibanez vernacular is correct<g>   Trisound Username: Trisound Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 11:12 pm:    No tabs on mine (like on my LP) and no evidence of a refret...   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Tuesday, October 02, 2007 - 11:28 pm:    Thanx Tri! That's what I hoped you'd say.   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 7:55 am:    Whisperer, your original question was "did I pay too much?" Keep in mind... an ar500 is not really that far from owning an ar5000. An ar5000 is an ar500 (basically) with a few adornments (vine, binding, truss rod cover and a few other aesthetics.) Even though I have an ar5000, I miss my ar500 pretty badly and intend to land another one someday... which may seem silly, considering I have the ar5000. Still, The ar500 in and of itself is a formidable axe, great axe actually. You paid $2k and I tell you what... there ain't many guitars out there for $2k that could even be in the same room with a nice ar500. An ar500 kicks butt. When you plug it in and play it, you'll be able to answer your own question. Yes, you could find one for less than $2k but... not much less and... the value is in the totality of the quality of the instrument. That said, you did good young man. Nice axe.   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 2:31 pm:    Thanx 'Zilla! Hey, how did you know I'm a young man?   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 2:41 pm:    iT'S JUST THAT i AM SO OLD, SO i JUST FIGURE EVERYONE ELSE IS YOUNGER THAN ME.   Mickf Username: Mickf Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 3:48 pm:    First of all, I must say I'm pretty surprised about how sought after and valuable AR500s are these days. Mine is a 82 in well played condition (the gold is off the edges of the hardware and PU covers, a few dents, belt buckle marks), but what bothers me is that I had to change the black tri-sound switches a few years ago and did not try to get original ones but installed chrome standard switches from an electronics supplier. Second I had to replace the rubber foam around the active circuit in the electronics compartment, and third, the body has a really ugly mark between the pickups, god knows how it got there .... What would you say, how do these flaws influence the value of the guitar? (Which is a perfect player with an incredible sound!) Here's a picture on which you should see the mark and the switches: [IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/mickf2903/A body3.jpg[/IMG]   Guitarwhisperer Username: Guitarwhisperer Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 4:36 pm:    I dunno. To me, from a techie/luthier type of standpoint, I like when stuffs original. It's kinda like what I typed earlier about binding nubs, if a guitar originally had them. In 1978 for example, they only made X amount of guitars, every time one's modified in any way, even routine maintenance like switches, there's one less completely original guitar. If there were no more completely original guitars, the only way we could really know what the guitars were like when they were first made would be memory, which not all of us have since we weren't all around back then, or pictures, which you can't tell everything from. A completely original unmodified guitar gives you a better idea than memory, which can be inaccurate, or pictures, which are by nature incomplete, no matter how many you take. To me, a completely original guitar is intrinsically more valuable than a modified player, since it provides a "snapshot" of what the guitars were like historically from that era, whichever era they came from. Of course, guitars are cranked out by the tens of thousands per month nowadays, whereas in earlier days, the production methods were much slower.

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