I am so devastated, please help!!

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Edit Profile

Author Message   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 1:36 pm:    Hello, Terrible thing happened at my gig last night. We had just finished playing and I put my guitar (79 MC500) in its stand on the side of the stage. I started packing my gear and I hear a crash. The drummer knocked his stack of drums that he was packing, into the stand and the guitar took about a 2 foot fall on its face (the brunt on the headstock)onto a hard floor. I was apopleptic. After a thorough inspection there doesnt seem to be any real physical damage to the structure of the guitar. There is a suprisingly small (thank god) ding that didnt even chip on the top left of the headstock, but here is the worst part of this: The pearl type tuning knob/button (for lack of a better term) shattered into 3 pieces leaving me with just a tuning post on the D string. Can this be fixed? Is it just a matter of putting a knob/button on the post? Or do I have to change the whole machine? (I think not and I surely hope not) Most importantly and I know this place is the only place in the world where I can even ask this question but does anyone have a pearl type replacement tuning knob (button) for a 79 mc500? I have seen that people like Orval and the captain can pull out some rare parts from time to time, maybe this is one of those times? I have to keep this guitar original. It is in mint 9.5 shape otherwise. In fact I just upgraded it to a 9.5 from a 9 last week because the one decent ding this guitar had on its body (and you can view this ding in my thread about "Cool wood grain patterns") I had repaired last week by a local reputable luthier. It is unbeleivable the job he did on it. I was going to post pictures of the fix to the forum this weekend because I was so happy with the way this came out and others in the thread had expressed interest in how I got it fixed if I ever did it. He also did a set up AND leveled the frets. After 26 years wood definitely moves a bit and the frets desparately needed leveling. It was just unbelievable how this guitar was looking and playing after the work I just had done (and before the work it already looked and played brilliantly). It really just figures that as soon as it was just exactly perfect that something like this would happen. A shred of hope for repair from the people here who know so much more about this stuff than I do (I am a player first, not as much of a collector although Id like to be) would make better an otherwise dismal day. Thanks, Jeffm   Cmangeot Username: Cmangeot Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 1:49 pm:    Jeff, I have a few spare tuners froma new Benson model, gold with the pearl handle. I will get them to you if you would find the d string useful   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 2:32 pm:    cmangeot, wow, thanks for your quick response. Are the tuners on the benson model the same or similiar to an mc500? (I believe they are velvetunes on the mc500? someone correct me if I am wrong). Also I don't know if I am correctly describing the break. The post I speak of above is not the post that the string winds around, but is the post that the pearl knob is mounted on. that post is fine or seems to be, it just now has a pearl knob broken off it so I obviously have no way to tune that string (not to mention how hideous it looks with the tuning peg broken off it.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 3:45 pm:    Jeff: I could be wrong, but I don't think the new Pearl VelveTunes will match those from the '79 era. Not to say that you couldn't use a newer one temporarily while you look/wait for the right vintage tuner.   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 3:51 pm:    Jeff, I'm afraid the newer tuner won't be of much help. The housings on those are different and the little screw is aligned angled and not straight as on the old ones so you would have to drill an additional hole in the headstock. Another difference is that the knobs on the first edition of the old tuners are cast around the shaft while they are detachable on the new ones, so there is no way of replacing the knob only of your tuner. That's why I recommend you to eiher look for set or a single one of the old tuners at Ebay or hope that one of the members can help you out... Juergen   Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 4:08 pm:    Which of the following do you have? Ace   Spiro Username: Spiro Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 4:26 pm:    a 78 velve tuner does not have a screw to hold the button in place.. The newer ones do.. I am sure that the shaft size is different as well. Knob size is smaller and not as colourful either..   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 02-2005 Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 5:04 pm:    Jeff, I've seen a Marshall stack completely crush a '79 Strat. Once again... there was a drummer involved. Good luck with your machine head, eventually, you will definitely find one. Hope it's soon.   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:17 am:    ace, thanks for the pics, mine look like the ones in the first pic you have (of the artist)   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:31 am:    spiro, yes you are correct that the there is no screw to hold the button in place on these stock tuners. I have the broken one (the break wasnt as bad after a night of sleep.. I still have the main tuning button, in my hand right now, but the break happened on one side of the collar where the post initially inserts into the button before pushing it on all the way.... but still not good) it just slides on the post. How were these originally installed on the guitar? The tuners were just all one piece with the knob attached already? How were those knobs held in place on the post...it must've been glue maybe? I don't know.   Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 3:19 pm:    Could you post some pics of the broken pieces? There might be a chance on salvage with some jewlery epoxies depending on the type of break(s).   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 10:22 am:    jm...that's one tough guitar...and now that it has passed the maximum stress test, you will have her back the way she was with a minimal cosmetic fix. Fat bottom girls are resilient!! Although, I think I'll wait a few days (cooldown) before I continue our "small world" discussion. I look forward to it!   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 12:48 pm:    yogi, after re-reading your post, I see that many of my questions you answered without me knowing it.It takes a couple days for me to stop seeing red when I think about this. Let's see if I have this straight: 1)There is no way for me to just slide another knob on the post, that I now know. (because the knob is cast on the post when the tuners are made) 2) this leaves only one real viable solution. Find either a single replacement tuner or a set of them from god knows where. (In everyones experience what is more common, finding these single or in a set? ) Does anyone know exactly what they are called? I understand them to be Velve Tune machines. How many variations are there. I know you see them in gold and in Pearl, but for example ACE has two pictures above. Are they both considered Velve Tune? If yes how do you differentiate by name? Like I said above my tuners are exactly like the 1st pic ACE posts of the Artist. Boy what a pain in the arse to just replace a tuner if you want to keep everything original! It is so worth it though. Who do I have to bribe, beg, or get in contact with here to make one of these pop up. If there is one thing I know, it is that if anyone in the world has them someone here does. Thanks everyone for the help so far. -Jeff   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 2:43 pm:    Jeff - I hate to mention the obvious, but since we have been able to find NOS parts from Hoshino in PA, might it be possible to secure the exact part you need? Just a thought.   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 4:53 pm:    Jeff, that's right, there is no way to replace only the knob. Although there were variations of the Velve Tuners, only the first version had the thumb wheels. Those tuners pop up on Ebay from time to time, mostly as complete sets and for big $. If I remember correctly the last ones went for up to $150! So you might prefer to look for a single tuner... Maybe an option: If you still have the parts of the broken knob you could try to fix it with superglue. Wouldn't look as nice but would be the cheapest solution... Juergen   Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 5:31 pm:    I would not recommend superglue.. fixing pearloid is better done with jewelry epoxies..I use them for gluing abalone and pearl inlay. Also they allow you to adjust the broken parts if needed during the curing process where superglue is instant. Jewelry Expox is also very tolerant to heat, which superglue isn't. Who knows if either would help in this case.   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 5:46 pm:    thanks for the help guys, unfortuantely I am missing one small piece from the break.So glueing is out of the question. Luckily here is how the break of the pearloid button went down. It was broken into 3 pieces. I would say the big piece that I have represents about 96% of the total mass of a pearloid button. Then the other 2 pieces were maybe 2.5% and 1.5 % . I am missing the 2.5 % Piece. After being afraid to open my case for a couple days, I took out the piece and was able to put it right back on the post! It fit like a glove and is on there very snug. It would take a big yank to pull it off, luckily there was enough mass left of the big piece to still function. So now I can at least tune the guitar and if you cant tell by looking at it unless you were 12" from it and looking for it! So that made me feel a little better. However, it still remains that this is a guitar that is in overall beautiful shape and even though I came up with a temporary solution, it would be a disservice to not replace it with an original, so my quest continues (or begins ;-) .   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 02-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 5:47 pm:    Jeff, how much did it cost you to have your luthier fix that "ding" and... where is he located?   Spiro Username: Spiro Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 6:06 pm:    I would try and recreate the missing piece with epoxy.. Just add some pearlescent paint to the epoxy and fill the area missing and then sand to the same contour and polish it up!! It is easier than it sounds.. and then you dont have to worry about it ever again.. Just leave the button on the tuner and mask the rest of it up.. fill the area over a few drop fills and let it set for a few days before you start sanding it.. and I bet you can get it to a point which is hardly noticeable..   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 7:00 pm:    bobzilla, on the connecticut shoreline in Clinton (about 15 miles up 95 from New Haven) guys name is Paul Neri (search google, his contact info will pop up). Fret leveling, setup AND ding fix came to $159   Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:04 pm:    I would agree with spiro, it won't take too much time to do and if you have any knowledge of wood or metal working you should be able to pull it off..might be a good interm fix until you get the new one. Good luck.,   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 1:00 pm:    again, I thank everyone for their suggestions. I may just take the epoxy advice. Luckily the company I am the IT person for has about 4 people in the maintenance department who are very proficient in many aspects of metal working and wood working and quite a few other things (they build, maintain, and fix tableting presses all the time and I have seen them create some amazing things out of metal from thin air, ....including custom pick up rings and back plate for a guitar I am building, and metal and brass boxes to house some of the DIY effects I have done, btw I just finished a clone of a mutron 3 and I cannot tell the difference when a/b ing it with my original but that is a different story...) so I am going to show them this thread, find the one who has the most experience with epoxy and probably give it a go. I will be sure to take before and after pics to post here. I am and will be still looking for a replacement tuner if one or a set ever come down the pike, so if anyone sees any or ends up with any somehow, someway, please keep me in mind. I will obviously pay what they are worth.(which I know can vary greatly depending on who has them, how many are out there and how bad I NEED them.. ;-) Thanks again everyone, This group is great!much thanks to johns for providing a place for us sickos to get together. Peace, Jeff   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 1:03 pm:    oh and spiro and/or pitviper (or anyone with epoxy experience), is there a particular brand of epoxy you would recommend for this type of task?   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 2:12 pm:    SICKOS!!!? Jeff, your the picky one, I'd use a cookoo clock key (or a small set vise grips for a permanent solution) and call it customized! You IT guys always have to have it right...   Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 3:43 pm:    Bwahahah Strings.. This stuff should do it for you Jeff http://cgi.ebay.com/EPOXY-220-GLUE-for-stones-jewelry-inlay-and-crafts_W0QQitemZ 8132223189QQcategoryZ28103QQssPageName ZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Adding some pearl paint or even some real pearl flakes(thats what I would do) should get er done.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 9:12 pm:    Jeff: is this what you need? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41434&item=7330607513 btw...got the DVD - very nice! Thanks!   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 8:10 am:    michael, yeah that is exactly what I need, if only I had a time machine back to june.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 8:38 am:    Contact the purchaser...maybe he doesn't need it. I watched the entire DVD last night. Bobby Cochrane is excellent! His Cowboy guitar sounds nothing like Weir's Cowboy guitar. I have the same exact rig as Cochrane: UE-700 & AD-230. I got a kick out of that. mk   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:38 am:    yeah, bobby cochran is excellent, he is a true professional in every sense of the word. Very versatile stylistically and great lead guitar lines and background vocals taboot! I wish the midnites would do a reunion it would be fantastic. Very tight band almost the opposite of the Dead in their approach but very cool. You are right in his tone being very different from Weirs even though they both had similiar looking cowboys. Much had to do with the 3 cream colored humbuckers in Cochrans cowboy along with his effects, amp , and eq settings. You know (and I really get a kick out this on the gearheads Dead musician yahoo group) that in the end if you are an original player gear(guitar, amp effects) makes not as big difference in someones overall sound as people think. It is your approach and preferences that shape the sound. It makes me laugh when someone buys all the Garcia stuff or all the Weir stuff down to the last guitar cord (you know the drill: how many people have you seen pre-amp a twin reverb, hack up their guitar electronics and put two dimarzio super 2's and a Dimarzio sds-1 in, put a unity gain buffer and a effects loop in the control cavity find the scandavian wood to copy a hard truckers cabinet pay 400 bucks for a vintage mutron and think that they are going to channel Jerry Garcia!). Garcia sounded like Garcia whether he was playing his wolf, travis bean, tiger, or rosebud. Were there subtle differences? Sure but his overall sound was the same. Same goes for Weir. Weir had a VERY unique approach to guitar tone. To a Deadhead his sound is just as identifiable as Jerry's . My favorite weir era was 76-83 in terms of tone and it is no coincidence that was when he was playing Ibanez guitars. .......BUT, there were many other factors that shaped his tone as well. As an example when Weir made the switch to modulus in summer 83 his tone changed a little but not as much as you would think. This is because his approach and the rest of his factors stayed the same. In fact if you listen to fall 83 modulus shows and compare them to summer 83 cowboy shows there is not that big a difference, and if someone did not know the date of the switch you would be hard pressed to tell by ear. Now pull out a show from 88-89 and listen. His sound is much,much different but he is STILL playing the modulus. Why is it different from fall 83 modulus tone? A different stylistic approach along with different amp and effect choices. Point being is that in 79 or 81 or 83 or 77 that Weir sounded like Weir whether he was playing his 2681, one of his cowboys, or his modulus. I would love a cowboy, but not to sound exactly like Weir, but to have a GREAT guitar. Can having a cowboy help someone who wanted to get closer to Weir's sound get there. Definitely, but as you know Michael, there is so much more at work there. To me Cochran's playing gives a great example of how good the cowboy could sound in a "traditional" guitarists hands. It is fun to watch that DVD and watch him wail with that thing. I bet with your UE-700, and the other Ibanez effects you have like his, that you could probably come pretty close to nailing that sound yourself. Now you just need the Cowboy! Although let me ask you this. He (and Weir) are both using Peavey amps at the gig. How big a factor do you think those played in the sound? Also, they are using Peavey black widow speakers (which actually I owned in the early 80's along with a Peavey musician Head) those black widows were NICE speakers IMHO. Weir actually used some Peavey gear with the Dead at one point too. If you watch the 1978 Saturday Night Live appearance where they did I need a Miracle among others he is using the same Peavey Musician head that I owned along with his cowboy. (why do you think I bought the musician head ;-) I, in the end, am as guilty as the next person in trying to get the stuff my idols owned, but over time and experience is where I learned that it ain't gonna automatically give me the chops to do it!) but I major league digress....probably should have been moved to the cowboy thread .and thanks for the heads up on that tuner. I think I will email the buyer there to see if he might sell. Boy if Im lucky enough to get a positive response I can feel that it is gonna cost me though! Oh, and I have a few shows there Garcia was playing his Ibanez musician. If I put 4 mp3's up from the exact same period 2 where he is using his Ibanez and 2 where he is playing wolf or tiger it is real hard to tell the difference there too. It IS real cool hearing him play the Ibanez though.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 4:13 pm:    I agree. I think the difference between Weir's Cowboy sound and Cochrane's Cowboy sound can be mostly attributed to playing style and pickups. I'd like to know what pickups were in Cochrane's Cowboy.   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 4:36 pm:    I would like to know too. If you put a gun to my head I would say they were Dimarzio DP100's (regular Super Distortions). Just a guess from time period, tone, and look. Could be anything though. Jeff Hasselberger would know obviously. Maybe Johns could ask his contact? (hint hint). Actually, BobbyCochran.com has a forum that Bobby himself posts to once in a while and his email addy is up there, maybe one of us should ask? Isn't it also intersting that unlike Weir he has the middle pickup butted against the neck pup rather than the bridge? A middle humbucker instead of a single coil and the different position could defintely account for the 2 cowboy's tonal differences among all the other factors mentioned. Good discussion, this is why I wanted to put that DVD in some ICW members hands. Strings, Dupree, where are you? What is your take? Actually you guys are probably just getting them now, we'll give you a day or 2 ;-)   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 5:18 pm:    Jeff: My contact at Hoshino doesn't know what pickups were in Bobby's cowboy guitar. I'll ask and see if Jeff H. knows.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 6:58 pm:    I have e-mailed Bobby Cochran for details...we'll see what he has to say.   Partsman Username: Partsman Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:38 pm:    Jeff, How can i go about getting one of those dvd's?   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 11:25 am:    send email to jeffm725@yahoo.com with your postal address and its yours...anyone else?   Partsman Username: Partsman Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:07 pm:    Thanks Jeff, you've got mail! Mark   Brentm Username: Brentm Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 7:58 pm:    Dude, if you find a spare (or two), let me know. I need to replace one on my MC400. I'll keep you in mind also if I come across one.   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 9:33 pm:    sure Brent, </fingers_crossed>I may have one lined up</f> I will defintely keep you in mind while looking and see if there are anymore where I am hopefully hooking up with these. Hopefully one of us can turn a couple of these up.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:14 pm:    Jeff!! I got the DVD today as I was just coming in from up north...yeah we go upnorth in MN...sounds redundent. Anyway, 2 kids under 5 & no wife for two days will keep me from it...but I'm sure I'll sample soon. I did want to thank you sooner than later for sending this along...twice! I'll elaborate later with some crumbs from my Westy days sometime this week. Best, EJ Good luck on the replacement...I'm sure you'll have it solved too!   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 1:15 pm:    JEFFM: http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-70s-IBANEZ-GOLD-TUNERS_W0QQitemZ7353353087QQcategory Z22672QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem   Brentm Username: Brentm Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 1:20 pm:    Jeff, I only need one. You want to split it?   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 6:09 pm:    http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7353353087   Brentm Username: Brentm Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 7:50 pm:    Looks like we have competition... :/ I found a set of 6 today at the Seattle Guitar show, but they were in silver. 40 bucks even! Oh well...   Jeffm725 Username: Jeffm725 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 10:57 am:    Brent, I will definitely split them with you, lets talk off board

Add Your Message Here Post: -Color- Black Red Green Blue Yellow Purple Orange Cyan Gray White -Font- Arial Courier Symbol Times Verdana -Size- Smallest (-2) Small (-1) Normal Large (+1) Largest (+2) Enter Item number: Username: Posting Information: This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here. Password: Options: Post as "Anonymous" Enable HTML code in message Automatically activate URLs in message Action: