AR500 vs AR3000

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Author Message   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 8:17 am:    Hello. Can someone help me, please? I'm now trying to find out the difference(s) between AR500 and AR3000, produced around 1980. All I know is that the latter model seems to be made with more valuable, heavier wood materials than those for AR500, and that there might be AR3000s with wooden control knobs on the body. Any bit of information is more than welcome!   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:36 am:    Try this link Hasenobu and welcome to ICW! http://www.ivc.ca/misc/artist/sitemap.htm   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 10:55 am:    The following topic has all the pictures you need: "Some pics of my '81 AR-3000 Limited E..." I found it when searching for Ar3000. It was #32 on page 3. mk   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 9:46 pm:    Thanks a lot, Ibanezfreak1960 & Michaelkaufman! As to the link, yes, I tried before, and, to be honest, found not a few incorrect informatin. And as for the topic Michael referred to, I found it very interesting! The reason I posted this question is that one of my friends puchased an "AR3000" from ebay a few years ago, but what he got was a seemingly AR500. So, he sent it to HOSHINO Japan, had them look at it, and was told that his is an AR3000. Below is a page where his guitar is shown: http://www.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet-Stock/1363/ar500av.html Will you please try the link and give me your opinion? btw, I'm from Japan, and I myself have a home page specializing in AR guitars. http://arworld.poke1.jp/index.html If you understand Japanese, I'm sure most of you will have a lot of fun.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 11:17 pm:    Hasenobu: I've been to your site many times. From the pictures, I cannot tell. Maybe someone else can render their opinion. Is there an inlay that says 'Limited Edition' at the top of the neck? Michael   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 5:54 am:    I do appreciate your prompt response, Michael. And also, I'm very glad you've been to my site many times. I've been thinking of offering English version of the site soon after I opened it, but been unable to find time to do it. Regading the inlay: no, there isn't, and that's why I put the guitar cited above in question.   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 6:37 am:    Hasenobu, welcome here! I have visited your site several times! *drool*.. There are a couple of things to look in the AR 3000.. -Body is bound, not in whitish celluloid purfling, mut grained brown, clearly visible in pictures given in the above-mentioned thread. -There is always a special inlay stating "Limited Edition" in the fretboard.. in block letters - AR 3000 in script-letters - AR 5000 -small abalone dots as potentiometer position markers inlaid in body -real pearl peghead inlay in AR 3000 (AR 5000 has pearl & abalone vine, of course) and truss rod cover has no text, but it is brass with rsw veneer. In that old thread I was promising to do a photo-comparison of 5000-3000-500 but i have not done it yet..*ashamed, a little bit..* Ask more, if you like, I am happy if I can be of any help....   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 6:45 am:    The guitar in the link supposed to be AR 3000 is in fack a nicely flamed AR 500 with veneered peghead.. Purfling is standard Artist purfling, not that brown special one as in 5000-3000 Artists..   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 7:15 am:    Thank you very much for your detailed description, Fox. Well, some of you guys out here might think it is rather strange for a man (I mean, me) to bring a topic like this when he is in a country where AR guitars were, and are, produced. Let me explain a little bit. Ibanez guitars were, as you may have heard, not sold in Japan until 1980, and even after they began to appear in the market here, some of the models were available only in the foreign countries other than Japan. For example, ARs with a tremolo unit, these models never appeared in Japanese catalogues. And this is the case with AR3000 and AR5000, as well. Now, as one of the AR maniacs, I am trying to collect information about our favorite guitars.   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:08 am:    Thank you Hasenobu! It sure is nice to hear AR-stories from "The country of origin".. I try to upload a couple of photos..try to "guess" what the first one is...   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 8:56 am:    Ahaha..., you're giving me an exam, Fox? The left pic is that of AR400, right? As you know, this model didn't come out in Japan, back then. But, a friend of mine (one different from the one I referred to earlier) managed to obtain it from the U.S!! (In other words, he re-imported it!) As far as I know, this model was on the market only in 1979 and 1980, wasn't it?   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 10:53 am:    Quote: "Ahaha..., you're giving me an exam, Fox?" Well, no way.. Quite amazing, though.. The AR 400 was for quite a time "the elusive one", no-one had seen it "for real" as was the matter with a couple of other models, as well.. You are right, as far as I know, the AR 400 was made only in those years, no-one knows how many, and in which market-areas it was available.. Mine is from Central Europe, unfortunately it is missing one of original pearloid tuners..Mine is K79xxxx so it is made in -79, slim body, smooth heel and Super80- pickups.. The other pic above shows a detail of that purfling (binding around the edge of body), same type of binding is in the AR 5000. AR 3000, as far as I know, was made in extremely small numbers, and if you had read the other thread, Mr.Wilo and I have guitars which are "siblings", have serial numbers that are one digit from each other.. quite a coinsidence.. Hasenobu, do you have any info how many AR 400s was really made? I know that in Japan there is quite a few guitar-enthusiastics who have lots of knowledge about Ibanez Artists or other models, and there is some info in the net, but unfortunately only a few can read Japanese..   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 5:59 pm:    I regret to say that I have no information as to how many AR400s were made.... Isn't there any information in the book "The Untold Story"? I hear the book contains lots of amazing details. True, there are some enthusiastic people who are fascinated by AR models, but it is very hard for them to gather information especially when it comes to the models earlier than 1980. There's one book which features AR guitars published here in Japan. In fact, I'm involved in editting it, and now I'm working on another booklet with a lot of photos. Anyways, thank you for your cooperation! In return, I promise to update my home page, adding a list of year-by-year specs of various ARs. (This time, with an English verstion!)   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 6:45 pm:    Hasenobu, if you need hi-res picts I can provide some.. Of course of the aforementioned models AR 400, AR 500, AR 3000 and AR 5000, but also of very early 2617 (1976 October) and 2622... If you are interested, please let me know. I bet that other fellows here are willing to help, if needed.   Overdriver Username: Overdriver Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 6:47 pm:    >>I promise to update my home page, adding a list of year-by-year specs of various ARs. (This time, with an English verstion!) That's great Hasenobu. I look forward to reading it! What is your homepage?   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 1:14 am:    Overdriver: What is your homepage? Well, it's, as I wrote, about AR guitars. You may find it interesting if you see one of the page, which has a lot of AR guitars listed: http://arworld.poke1.jp/myARs.html (Note that these guitars have been posted, so, in spite of the title "My AR Guitars", mine are 10 or so.)   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 6:42 am:    Hasenobu, Nice to hear from you on this site. I have been admiring the pics on your site for quite a while. But I have to admit that you do have a few incorrect references. For example, a listing labelled "kazu1979ARCustomAV" looks to me to be an AR3000, and another when you look up 2681S(?), well that ones an AR500 with black pup surrounds, not a Wier. I whish I could read the lingo, but a picture says it all. Tom.   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 6:49 am:    Just so all can see. Check out the pups are flying fingers and the led is above the preamp (an after thought) along with the jack on top. An AR3000 proto maybe?   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 8:08 am:    Actually, it looks like a 2622/AR500 hybrid - only 2 non-eq knobs... mk   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 7:05 pm:    Not quite. It has the sane electrics as a 2700 with the led added. But the binding is the same as an AR3000 with the L.E. badge,and brass truss rod cover.   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 7:16 pm:    Snowjays, Re: the one labelled "kazu1979ARCustomAV" When the owner sent me the photos, I was quite unsure what it was. I, then, asked Mr. Jim Donahue to have a look at the page, and got an answer. He says that "it could easily be a prototype" and "I really have no information on this model." According to Kazu, the owner, he was given this guitar from his uncle who worked as a designer at Hoshino, Japan. His uncle told Kazu that that particular guitar was made for a "music instruments show." Thus, I assume it is a kind of proto model (of AR3000), and decided to call it "AR custom" for the time being. Re:2681S(?) Yes, you are right. I noticed the numbering was a mistake, not 2681 but 2618. This one also has a rather "stange" features, though. According to a musicstore clerk, it was made as a kind of "sample" in the Fujigen factory, assembled with"irregular" parts, and the workers enjoyed playing it in the factory. Then, for some reason, it came out of the factory, was brought to a musicshop, and sold to the present owner. The owner replaced some parts soon after he got the guitar. In this sense, this one is very "rare" and still remains a mystery. Sorry for the lengthy stories.   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 7:33 pm:    Hasenobu, Re:2681S How did this particular guitar end up with a 1981 seriel?   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 6:22 am:    Snowjays, Actually, I know nothing about its serial number. In the page, I claim that the 4-digit numbering is most implausible, considering the year as late as 1981!   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 8:32 am:    Vintage AR3000 on ebay. http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D190036713669   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 8:41 am:    I almost got a heart attack, LOL! But that's a AR500, not a AR3000. Juergen   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 8:44 am:    I guess someone should inform the seller of that. I thought the binding looked odd for that model.   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 8:50 am:    done   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 10:44 am:    Dave's already on top of it. Also if it's an AR500: it's looking good! I guess this potmeter knob is already on his workbench. 33 hours to go and an unknown reserve... Ginger   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 12:23 pm:    So, Yogi , why almost a heart attack...although, if it keeps you away from whatever designs you have on adding more 3000 LEs to your collection, then I AM ALL FOR IT!!! ;O\   Tubescorcher Username: Tubescorcher Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 10:20 pm:    Hey Guys, This is a quote from the seller: "Hi John, sorry I dont have better pictures of the neck. There is fret wear, you might need to get a fret dress. The guitar is in good condition for its age. This is an AR3000, I have seen it in books. You can do a search for it on google and you will see. Regards, Chris"   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, October 05, 2006 - 11:45 pm:    In Germany there was no AR3000 in the catalogue in 1982-1984, but the AR500AV was, and I tend to believe the 1982 catalogue and Yogi are both pointing in the right direction: http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1982_ar_mc.pdf Books or no books... Authors are only human and do sometimes make mistakes. A lot of them copy photo material from others, without mentioning the source of this particular photograph (often all they show is a non-specific courtesy list) and without verifying if the picture is what it's said to be. Then you get a snowball effect: a library full of false information. Ginger   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 4:41 am:    Hi Tube! I am quite certain here, that seller (Chris) is unfortunately wrong in this case.. I believe that I am familiar with both AR3000 and AR500.. As a matter of fact, AR3000 was made only in 80-81 ... AR3000 production numbers 6 in 1980 22 in 1981 There are also some major differences in those models, AR3000 has engraved inlay at the end of fretboard that says "Limited Edition" in block letters, the AR5000 has the same text but in script. The guitar supposed to be "AR3000" has the regular prl-ab-prl inlay.. Binding around body, neck and peghead sides is brown grained "ivoroid" in AR3000, truss rod cover is wood veneer and brass. The binding in fretboard and peghead is multi-ply and the peghead inlay is real mop, not artificial.. Controls have an abalone "position marker" dot inlaid in top. Hope this will "shine some light" in this matter..   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 7:06 am:    http://www.ivc.ca/misc/artist/ar3000limited.htm Just a little more info on thr AR3000   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 7:47 am:    Limited pictures. Wouldn't let me check it out in person. I think it's an AR500. mk   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 10:29 am:    Here's what I received from the seller today after letting him know what he actually has: "Hi, thanks for your help. I think you might be right. My father told me it was an AR3000, it his guitar. I checked on the internet and both models look amazingly the same. Cheers, Chris." So he probably isn't so sure about the guitar anymore but hasn't added the info to the item description, though. Since that AR500 was made in Dezember 1982 it's among the last ones made and it looks like the guys at Fuji Gen Gakki had some of the nice figured Maple left that they used for the 'Limited Editions'. Strings: Don't worry, I have no intention to add more of these Beauties to my collection since that would be against my "collecting pattern" of only owning one guitar of each model (That's why my collection is as humble as it is). So I hope the next AR3000 that is up for sale will be yours. But in case that none of them will pop up and if I ever decide (or actually being forced) to sell my AR3000, I will contact you first so there is a change that your obsession will be cured. Juergen   Tubescorcher Username: Tubescorcher Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 1:50 pm:    Hey Strings What up?! How's the hand? Anyway, are you interested in this one? I'll back off if you are! Peace   Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 2:45 pm:    Strings~ I won't bid either if you want to take a shot at the AR on Ebay. Good luck!   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 3:58 pm:    If you click on "Dates made" in the page Ibanezfreak1960 refers to, you get: http://www.ivc.ca/misc/artist/dating.htm According to this list, there was no production of the AR3000 limited after 1981, although the AR presented as AR3000 on Ebay shows the same features and was made in December 1982. So, I wonder whether, if a guitar has the same features and quality as the 1981 AR3000AV Limited, I would mind that it's formally an AR500AV or not. If it looks the same, feels the same and sounds the same... and the combination of these features was what I was looking for, I'd buy it. Like I would have bought Phatphred's Bradley 2355M, if an Ibanez hadn't been available. And I would buy an Aria Pro II PE-180 if I had to replace my L-1000. Because it's about the GUITAR I want, NOT the LABEL and one small inlay in the back of the headstock or, in the case of the AR3000 limited, in the fretboard. BTW I can't even see if there's any text inlay in the AR3000 fretboard on the artist page of ivc.ca so, I can't read it either. What if it turns out to be an AR500 instead of an AR3000? What would in your opinion a reasonable difference in value be? I think, it shouldn't be too much. I think, the condition is more important than the inlay. Let's look at the last half hour of this auction: I wouldn't be surprized if it goes over $1500.- or not at all (because this guy is not an ignorant fool: he's selling daddy's guitar and didn't set a reserve for nothing). Ginger   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 6:03 pm:    Ginger, read my post above, there I listed some major differences between AR500 and AR3000, also I posted a rather good picture of the binding... I dont deny the fact, that AR500 has quite a spectacular top, but that does not qualify it to be an AR3000..   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 6:20 am:    FWIW, here is a pic from neck..   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 8:31 am:    Just what I thought: $1,034.99 and RESERVE NOT MET. Whatever it is, Daddy's guitar won't be sold for a song... Fox, The catalogue pictures Ibanezfreak1960 referred to show too little detail to say something about the binding or the LIMITED EDITION fretboard inlay. This is the first time I can read it. (Thanks) I guess you were referring to the specs posted on Friday, October 06, 2006 - 04:41 am: ... MOP dots in the potmeter knobs... That's something I'd like to see on picture too. You said there were only 28 made in two years and 1982 was not one of them. But this one's a nice consolation prize. And it went beyond the $1500.= limit before, + 4 times between $1000-1200 + 4 times under $1000.- : Model No. Description Year Price Condition AR500 Artist 1981 620 7 AR500 Artist 1980 1669 9 AR500 Artist 1980 1085 9 AR500 Artist 1980 1055 9 AR500 Artist 1982 800 8 AR500 Artist 1981 811 7 AR500 Artist 1882 1186 9 AR500 Artist 1980 744 8 AR500 Artist 1980 1164 9 The AR3000 had 3 scores beyond the $1500.- but also 2 under $1000.- : Model No. Description Year Price Condition AR3000 Artist (AV) 1982 995 9 AR3000 Artist 1981 1842 9 AR3000 Artist 1980 1666 8 AR3000 Artist 1983 894 8 AR3000 Artist (AV) 1980 1800 9 I think it's not strange if the reserve for a good curly maple AR500 would be between $1150.- and $1650.- certainly when it's daddy's guitar and the old man's watching the results with his son. I guess they'll accept $1350.- Ginger   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 9:18 am:    Ginger, on the above listing is a -83 AR3000, and according to Capt. et al there is no such thing.. It is not a first time that a veneer-peghead AR500 is considered to be an AR3000.. The price is, as we see, set accordingly. Did you notice the fretboard binding? It is multi-ply on the AR3000, mine has the "added bonus" in that one of the fret marker inlays is accidently turned around. The position dots are small abalone inlays on top maple, not on the knobs. The AR5000 has those also. What comes to the wood control knobs, I have not seen those, mine has just normal SureGrips and the AR5000 has same knobs as those used in Brass Beauties.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 2:57 pm:    You're right, Fox. I was focussed on the prices. The 1982 ($995) and 1983 ($894) are probably AR500s actually. And PERHAPS the expensive 1980 "AR500" ($1669.-)was really an AR3000 that was recognized by a number of bidders. But I guess it's too long ago to check it. Ginger   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 4:01 pm:    Scorch! I'm doing better day-to-day, but now the word is that I will know that this happened for the next 6+ months...that long until the stiffness is not so chronic...lots of PT, thanks for your concerns buddy! Yogi, you are truly a man of sensitivity. Somehow I am REALLY interested in yours. I think it has to do with three things: 1, we all passed it by 'cuz of the lousey photos - you were willing to investigate - it was POSTED TWICE! 2, the absolutely brand new condition of it (there was original packing material still on the main toggle - I think we all thought it was white tape over a gouged toggle-hole) and 3, I somehow know that it is in about the best hands possible (other than mine;) and therefore, preserved. Thanks for the good will Yogi...and if never, maybe fantasy is sometimes best left that way!   Tubescorcher Username: Tubescorcher Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 4:35 pm:    http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D170042170579 Lookie here!   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 5:16 pm:    Tube, Id say this qualifies for an AR3000 allright, although the picts are small and a little out-of-focus..binding in the body looks kinda brownish, and he states "Limited Edition".. Someone might ask for better picts, the body seems to have nice pin-stripe flame..   Tubescorcher Username: Tubescorcher Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 7:33 pm:    The zero feedback is an issue as well. Although I bought my AR500 from a guy who had 2 feedbacks for items totalling $6. I threw the dice and came out fine. Do you think $2500 is reasonable?   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - 10:01 pm:    Tube, Id (sorry but I can not use hyphens for some reason)say, that although zero feedback is some sort of issue, it might be as well so, that the guy has just signed in for to sell some goods.. I have bought succesfully from individuals with zero or even negative feedback without any hassle whatsoever, also expensive stuff. On the other hand I have encountered a couple of pain-in-the-xx deals with sellers who have lots of positives. So its your call.. Id say that even 2500 greenbacks is quite a steep price, some would think it as somehow justified. However, again its a personal judgement one must make. Those AR3000s dont come available often, and this one is the fourth (or fifth) Ive ever seen.. By the picts it seems to be a "real McCoy" and not an AR500.. Glad to hear youve had some good deals with ones without massive positive feedback as well..really. Think about it, and ponder the possibilities, and the best of luck! foxx   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 2:02 am:    Funny... his description seems like he doesn't know diddly $#!+ about it... but his starting price sure shows that he thinks he's got something valuable. ...or is it that shiny new Crate amp he's included that he's so proud of?

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