This Auction is just friggin STUPID !

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Author Message   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 8:25 pm:    People never cease to amaze me ! Ebay Item #180109963288   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 8:30 pm:    Wow a one of a kind huh? Bob it looks like yours a little bit!   Orval Username: Orval Registered: 3-2001 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:15 pm:    and heres another one , am70av, what do you guys think of this one of a kind prototype?   Orval Username: Orval Registered: 3-2001 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:16 pm:    ebay 160109075203 for some reason the post didnt take it Ebay Item #160109075203   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:16 pm:    Looks like a production AM70 to me with gold hardware.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:46 pm:    Scammer or idiot...at least he's obvious. Vines ain't my pref, but this one ain't nothin' like the wheezer Bob sweated over....fer weeks. For genuine interested parties, I'd look for the forest (or vines in this case) through the trees...   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:41 pm:    The AM70 was orginally listed as a '1970' model (based on the serial #). I set the seller straight and he revised his listing. I don't think he's scamming. mk   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 7:07 am:    The only difference I see is the gold hardware on the AM70. My hoshino contact indeed just told me Angelo his Ibanez sales rep DOES work there. As far as being an expert I would have to meet him.   Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:17 am:    Some expert... six   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 6:52 pm:    The only thing "special" on that AM 70 is goldplated hardware.. "Burl mahogany" for sure, it's birch.. More excellent photos can be found http://www.speakeasy.org/~sven/site/ Someone could direct the seller and "The Expert" there too..   Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 1-2004 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 9:24 pm:    Michael, I emailed him too the night he listed it and told him it was most likely an AM70, and positively an '87. This guy just won't listen to anyone who doesn't share his opinion or that of Angelo the Ibanez guy. I love his reference to the Ibanez book documenting EVERY IBANEZ GUITAR EVER MADE. Who's "Mike the collector" that seems to be fueling the fire. Is he a member here? I sure hope not. Even if the thing is a "prototype", its a prototype of a low-end model. Does anyone think its even worth the opening bid price of $499? js   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 11:51 pm:    I was going to post a link to Funkle's beautiful website this afternoon, but I had to leave to pick up the kids from school. I went shopping with the youngest, and when I came home the eldest let Windows crash with some RPG. No harm done, 'cause Fox knew where to find it. Looking at the back of the guitar, and forgetting about the feature table on Funkle's website for a minute, I'd say the body is not made of birch. There is indeed some burl... could be maple or something else... According to Funkle's table the AM70 was produced in 1985/86 and this one was made in the Terada factory in 1987 (H7xxxxx). So it is definitely not a prototype of the model as such, but it could be a prototype/testmodel of the Terada AM production line. It is remarkable that we find an Artist AM70 made by Terada, while we would expect them turn the cheaper models into ARTSTARS. So they made a product we would expect from Fuji Gen Gakki with the Artist headstock and gold hardware. It was model 00031 of 1987, so it was definitely one of the first guitars built by Terada for Hoshino in 1987. And probably the last AM70, or should I say AM70M (for maple)? Because it was discontinued. I think they just wanted to test the body templates, how the glue joints would hold, etc. without using the official hardware they were going to use on the new Artstars. So perhaps they used some leftover parts from the old production line. Now, it would make sense to test the glue joints with wood you're going to use on your new guitars, like mahogany. But... It is possible that the table is not complete, because I'm missing the AM-50 (maple BTW) from 1987 made in the Yoojin factory (Korea) in it. This guitar could indeed be more special than we would think at first sight. That is, if the data about discontinuation of the model is correct. Ginger   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 12:14 am:    The Scruggs, that originally got this thread started, just jumped from $1,200 to $10,000... with almost 6 days left! Now there's a red flag for your ass!   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 12:40 am:    :^(   Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 1:33 am:    Bidder 8 Cancelled: US $130,000.00 Explanation: buyer asked to withdraw bid Bid: Apr-23-07 20:48:43 PDT Cancelled: Apr-23-07 22:10:25 PDT 10,000...you got me to look...check this mistake bid...now it's back to 1k.   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 3:59 am:    "Looking at the back of the guitar, and forgetting about the feature table on Funkle's website for a minute, I'd say the body is not made of birch. There is indeed some burl... could be maple or something else... " Could be curly birch. There is indeed some curl ... Juha   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 4:39 am:    Juha, I guess that birch, especially "arctic birch" is quite unknown as guitar material to great number of players.. Maple is more common, but birch can also have a most pleasing appearance.. Flamed birch top http://www.ruokangas.fi/images/stock010a.jpg "Curly" birch Tele, self-made... http://www.lehmo.com/fox/lataamo/Televis.jpg btw, Artist AR 120 has gold-plated hardware, so this "prototype" might as well be one of those "Ibanez specials"...parts are stock, so they could quite easily used old AR- hardware.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 7:49 am:    To some it up it would be a sample test model. I have seen these a lot of these from Hoshino USA. In the past. living in the Bensalem area you'd be surprised what shows up in pawn shops around my town every now and then and also on the employee 2nds list. Not always flawed guitars but models with different pups or hardware. They sell them off cheap just to get rid of them.   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:07 am:    That Scruggs looks like its getting some action (shill ?)...must either be the German Ivory binding, or the Ibanez factory buying back this RARE example of Japanese craftmanship that inadvertantly slipped into the hands of a dealer ! I emailed the seller about some of the inaccuracies in the listing, particularly the reference to German Ivory......he sent me a link to an Ivory musuem in Germany to prove to me that German Ivory does indeed exist ! Poor German Elephants, no wonder you can't see them grazing on banks of the Rhine anymore ! No, you cannot make this stuff up.....   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 12:52 pm:    lol Dave good one!   Nickuk Username: Nickuk Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 2:04 pm:    Hi, I agree Dave, also when the "accidental" bidder bid $130,000.00 it jumped to $10,000.00 this showed up his reserve, so at $10,000.00 he's dreaming, it ain't gonna sell for 10K for sure....maybe to a Nigerian scammer...   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 5:21 pm:    Nickuk, That guitar is a very nice $650-$800 guitar in the condition it is in (non original pups and bridge, extra holes where tuners were swapped out and then, aparently-swapped back). I know the bids are now over $1,000...but-IMHO-there is reason to suspect everything about this auction   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:17 pm:    As a Germanist I know there are two ivory musea in the Odenwald. One is a national museum, the other one is private. I visited the private one a few years ago. Really beautiful. There are two cities in Germany I know of, where the old craft of "Elfenbeinschitzer" still exists and is teached. The craftsmen in these cities have special licenses to collect confiscated ivory from customs at the European airports. If there isn't any recent ivory available they use mammoth tusk from the former USSR. BTW, I heard they stopped producing billard balls from ivory... The elephants with red tusks were getting extinct... Ginger   Sinmil Username: Sinmil Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:24 pm:    Thanks for all the kind words   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 11:21 pm:    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! a bushman ehhhh? Step back a minute and look at it from our noisy opinions...you HAVE run one f*cked up auction. Perhaps you should read a bit more out here before you get too concerned about your ego. The guy who started this thread...well, let's just say that collection of say...25 vintage Ibanez would seem more like a box of accessories to him than a cross-section of the makers product...of course, as always, I'm speaking for myself. Otherwise, welcome! Glad you've stepped out of the closet. Perhaps you'll take something useful away. ;   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:46 am:    How much.... just for the neck?   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:34 am:    Zilla...I've made an observation(IMNSHO): Your one-liners are much more betta than your full-page ads! funny...Strings   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:41 am:    Oh, and D_g: I should clarify (and this is the last time I'm ever gonna be PC out here)...when I mention your perspective on a small collection, it in no way intended to state that you don't value each single vin-Ib you own (or, don't own.) Ugh...I hate explaining myself...but after reading it back...well, you know...   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 12:43 pm:    In an effort to defend my friend, I submit the following in regards to the auction of the "Randy Scruggs" guitar: ATTENTION ALL BIDDERS & WATCHERS OF THIS AUCTION: My name is Dave Howard. I’m a Luthier & the original owner of this “Ibanez Professional / Randy Scruggs Prototype.” Hopefully, my account of this guitar will help clear up the history of this instrument & sort fact from fiction. I purchased this guitar new from Bill Hathaway @ Gattuso Music in Mansfield, Ohio in the fall of 1978. It was tagged as an Ibanez Artist. Even back then, I knew it wasn’t an Artist, but what the hey… it was an awesome guitar. I owned it for about 12 years. At one time, I was looking for parts for it, and couldn’t find anything for this guitar. Ibanez dealers didn’t even know what it was! (Remember this was back in the day, before Al Gore invented the internet). The gold was wearing off, and I wanted to get a new bridge & tailpiece for it. So, I got the address for HOSHINO from my local Ibanez dealer, and wrote to them (remember snail mail). I sent pictures of the guitar & gave them the serial number. My first question was, "just what IS this guitar, and can I get parts for it?" They sent me a hand written letter and a factory promo pic of the guitar with a description of the guitar, and stated “What you have here is a prototype of what later became the Randy Scruggs model. It was built for the NAMM Show, and we’re puzzled as to how you got it. It should have never been shipped out.” They indeed wanted the guitar back, but they didn’t “offer me a million bucks for it.” What they did was offer me a new Ibanez of my choice, if I would return it to them. I declined the offer. For all you P.E.T.A folks out there (and African hunters), on that factory description sheet, it called out “German Ivory & Abalone Binding.” As far as I knew, “German Ivory” was like “Corinthian (fake vinyl) Leather,” or “Faux (fake) Mink.” Just a trade name. I mean really, German elephant tusks????? Be kinda hard to bend around that bottom cutaway! It was a marketing thing or trade name, I guess. Anyways……. By the mid 80’s, I was building my own guitars and this one was less valuable to me, so I sold it to a very good friend. While he had it, he not only lost the letter from Hoshino & the promo, he sold the original case with a Les Paul or something, and put a set of chrome Schaller tuners & a chrome bridge on it (nails on chalk board sound here). A couple of years ago, he offered to sell it back to me, but I was broke, so I offered it to the current owner. He purchased it & had me find original tuners for it, a new gold bridge, and install the Seymour Duncan pickups. He also bought a nice SKB hardshell case for it. To the best of my knowledge, the pots & switches are still original, as is the nut, vine embossed tailpiece & knobs. That’s the whole history of this guitar. Unfortunately, I don’t have that hand written letter from Hoshino to prove my story. But unless Hoshino was blowing smoke, it is a true story. This is an absolute KILLER guitar, and plays like a dream. I wish I were in a position to bid on it, and buy it back. If you have any more questions, feel free to e mail me. Sincerely, Dave Howard Dave Howard Custom Guitars   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 2:47 pm:    Nice story Dave, but I'm sure that you can understand the questions that have been raised regarding this auction. First of all in the fall of 1978, that so called "Prototype" guitar had already been in PRODUCTION for several years and was featured in the 1976 Ibanez Professional catalog and, together with the Artwood twin, was one of the most talked about guitars on the planet. In fact, this model had already undergone at least 2 major design/hardware changes prior to 1978. In addition, that model (as well as the Weir and the AW Twin)was very prominately featured on the inside cover of Guitar Player magazine throughout 1976 & 1977. Obviously Ibanez would have no interest in "buying back" a production guitar back from you or anyone else... The guitar features a "German Carve" top and-indeed-there is NO Ivroy on this guitar. I have never seen any Ibanez catalog description for any guitar stating German Ivory-if there even is such a thing. If the "Factory Promo Pict" was available we could see how "German Carve" could be confused (mistranslated ?) to read "German Ivory"... Had this guitar been purchased in say 1973, it very well could be a prototype. (except the fancy tailpiece and Pearl tuners were not introduced until 1976 or so). Please note that there would have been NO confusion with the Ibanez people regarding replacement parts in 1978 as that hardware was used in MANY models of Ibanez, including the last of the LP clones, PF series and Professional series. Indeed, a line of carded replacement hardware was introduced to dealers in late 1976 as a separate product line, and included the fancy tail, cloud, stop etc and was widely distributed to the Ibanez dealers. David, Please don't think that anyone on this forum is attacking you or Sinmil regarding this auction. Its just that we are a very passionate group when it comes to these instruments and-quite frankly-given the huge discrepancies between the description, your post and the historical record-the questions have been asked, and -I believe-answers will remain a mystery. I think that the '80s was a long time ago and memories fade, in addition, Ibanez is notorious for one offs, prototypes and the like..we all learn everyday about this brand. One thing is for sure-its an awesome guitar (I should know I own 6 of them) ! Thanks for the story and your input in trying to solve this mystery   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 3:40 pm:    Thanks for the reply Dave, The serial # is F776656, so I'm guessing that would make it a 1977. I never claimed to be an Ibanez expert. I owned a ton of them over the years, and now find myself getting sentimental and wishing I had ones like this, my flametop DT-400, the Rocket Roll......all back again! Yes memories do fade, (some chemically induced, ha ha) and trying to remember that promo they sent me, it may have been worded something like "German carved Ivory and Abalone..." (something like that). The original tuners were the ones with the black stars on the backs, and no pearl buttons. I installed the present tuners because they were the best "era correct" ones I could find. Back then, (in a small Ohio town) this guitar truly was a fluke, and no dealership in a 60 mile radius could tell me what it was, or had a clue how to get one of those vine tailpieces. The Only Ibanez guitars around here were bolt on neck L.P. copies & early Roadstars. That's why I wrote the factory. I didn't know who Randy Scruggs was until they sent me that letter, and a photo of him. Matter of fact, I still have no clue he is. I only wish I still had that letter, because I swear on my mother's grave the story I told is the God's truth. Why did they want it back? Beats me, but it's true. Why was it tagged as an Ibanez Artist on the guitar & case?????? Maybe Robert Stack can get to work on this. Best wishes to all, Dave   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 4:31 pm:    Dave: Thanks for dropping by and explaining what has transpired. Dave_g has done a very capable job of letting you know what the historical facts are regarding the Scruggs, or more correctly known as the model 2671. I feel sorry that you were misinformed and that it was actually Hoshino that was the source. I can't explain why it happened. BTW, I own 2 of these. One has a '76 serial number and the other has none. Generally that means it was manufactured before mid '75. Here's a picture:   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 5:04 pm:    Dave just to clarify your statement regarding them buying back guitars. If you look at JD's topic you'll see when I 1st joined this site and didn't know squat about Ibanez that I posted pics from the sales conference room the day I picked my AR3000VV. JD commeneted on how they bought a few of those vintage pieces back from owners and stores including the Brown Scruggs I posted here somewhere with me holding it. maybe someone was trying to BS this guy into selling it at the time when they were puting together this vintage collection they have. Just a thought but proof that they did at one time look for some of the oldies.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 5:10 pm:    sorry forgot the link..http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/64 84/7072.html?1091066117   Sinmil Username: Sinmil Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 5:35 pm:    Dave H. thanks for stepping in and offering your input. It does seem there are a few arrogant people on this site. I'll personally be gald when this auction is over. Dave G. took the email about the German Ivory factory hook...line...and sinker. Gary   Sinmil Username: Sinmil Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 5:40 pm:    and after I'm gald...........I'll be glad. This site needs an edit feature   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 5:53 pm:    Hey Ibanez Freak, Thanks for the link, and at least curbing my nausea! I'm telling ya, the letter from some dude at Hoshino BS'd this small town boy, and wanted my guitar. Makes sense, and lets me not feel so "acid flash back-ish anymore." Cool guitars in that room! I've noticed the Scruggs guitars I've found have had the script logo. Mine had (has) the block logo. The tuners on that Korina (but not really Korina) Rocket Roll Senior are the ones that were on mine when it was new. I like the Pearlies better! Thanks again EVERYBODY for the constructive input!   Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 7:18 pm:    Sinmil, True we do have some arrogant members. Despite that, they actually DO know what they are talking abotu. Sorry I mean 'about'. And there's your edit feature six   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:05 pm:    Hook, line and sinker ? Are you kidding me ? This (your email) wasn't serious? WOW ! Your good, really good !!!............ Awful long way to go for a joke,however, smells like ignorance to me ! And I though I was being incredibly polite by not pointing out how obviously moronic your response was ! There you go, it was a joke on me !! Wow, you really got me on that one-I actually thought you were a moron ! HEE HEE And I quote from your email to me: "If there is no such thing as German Ivory what is this?? The German Ivory-museum The German Ivory-museum in Erbach is the only Museum of its kind, and that makes it very special. The unusual museum exhibits any possible information about ivory. Visitors learn about the valuable material and get to see a wide range of different works. More than 2000 works of ivory-art from various countries and epochs are constantly exhibited." Oh now I get it, you took the time to google the phrase "German Ivory" and cut and past the response AND then comment on the fact that you thought it was a trade name, all in an effort to "get me"...WOW !!! I am in awe of your skillfull manipulative skills ! Jeeze, I guess my "idiot" radar is malfunctioning lately ! BTW, never confuse "Arrogance" with "right", and only a fool will not admit they are wrong.   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:31 pm:    Dave H.. To answer your question about "Artist"..according to Michael Wright (and others) this line that we usually call "Professionals" was in fact first named "Artist Autographs", maybe this has caused some confusion.. What comes to the "Scruggs model" it was named such after Randy, son of Earl Scruggs.. (Earl is that banjo maestro, Scruggs-style "inventor"-btw)and, about the script vs. block logo, the transition took place 'bout halfway-1976 - end 1976. To qualify as "prototype" this Scruggs should definitely have the script-type logo. IMHO. Hope I did not seem to be arrogant, I'd rather be fluffy.. fox   Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 1-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:30 am:    Dave G, I'm afraid you're fighting a losing battle, my friend. Far better men than you have succumbed to the ignorance of the masses. But kudos to you for attempting to fight the good fight. I for one too have had it with the "Proto-type", "One-of-a-kind", "Owned by a famous guitarist" hype that seems to be prevalent on eBay these days. It's a shame more people haven’t found Google. At least then they can ACT as though they're educated. Caveat Emptor js   Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 1-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:00 am:    And here's another one... Ebay Item #150116558795 Check out the extra holes in the "stock" pickup surrounds. WTF are these people thinking??? js   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:33 am:    I tend to agree with Jeff on this one. No point in puliing out hair (what's left of it)over a sellers lack of research. But plenty of us would have snapped up a "bargain" in the past believing the salesman's hype. These days I usually look at the cover and make up my own mind. If somone selling the guitar has a high appraisal of what he's selling, you can't make him sell it to you. Good to see a health concious AR30.... Doesn't smoke   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:35 am:    Sinmil... I'd like to see how that guitar fits up your arse. It could certainly fit in your mouth. By the way... my Scruggs was labelled as an "Artist" as well. That's what they had it listed as anyway. I wonder if that was just a mistake or a connection to the early naming that Fox mentioned.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:44 am:    Sorry fellas, JohnS etc...but I gotta say it: Sinmil, ohhhh Sinmil! I wish I could say you got balls when it comes to confrontation (especially when one is on the losing end and back-peddling,) but here's the deal...ya got no balls!! Now Dave_g is rollin' his eyes for me semi-speaking on his behalf cuz for the most part, he can't be bothered...I LIKE being bothered. See, I enjoy calling guys like you out. - You can't admit your mistake (or deception as I see it cuz I know your kind.) Used to be that I gave you the benefit of the doubt...but you went to far...I knew you would. - You can't be accountable for your words. You are not capable. - You've damaged the reputation of your friend DaveH cuz you can't shut up after he smooths things a bit for you. - And worst of all, you maintain the stupidity of slammin' it back on Dave_g when you've f*cked up and done it with the wrong crowd. The wonderful thing about life is there is only ONE truth...yes, it's singular. Must be tough to be you day-in and day-out livin’ it out in the gray. Now your ad makes sense. Best to ya…hopefully walkin… Strings   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:50 pm:    P.S. Sinboy - you mistook "EXPERTISE" for "arrogance" which is quite understandable consideribng you are a jackass and a liar and a scam artist. Then... you tried to hide your "deceitfulness" under the guise of "humor." The only humor is... how funny it is to see you called out, stood up and made an ass of. You shouldn't be allowed near guitars, you are unworthy. Dave's forgotten more info on guitars then you'lll ever learn in your lifetime and he presented you with FACTS in a very non-confrontational, non-arrogant, polite way.   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:12 pm:    Strings, 'Zilla, snow....I'm speachless ! For a moment there I thought that no one caught the sarcasm in my post ! Yose guys friggin RULE ! I am in awe of the way in which you have supported my postings. I am not happy that I lashed out at this newbie, but I was more than willing to leave it alone until he slammed me. This forum is not for fighting and testosterone slinging, but its good to know that-in a pinch-someones's got may back Thanks guys I needed a good laugh today   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:13 pm:    Jeffsailor, I didn't mean to leave you out.....thanks ! D   Texasbob Username: Texasbob Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 5:42 pm:    WOW!!!!! I REALLY ENJOYED THIS HERE THREAD.   Mattfrox Username: Mattfrox Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 6:12 pm:    This thread is hotter than the hinges of hell. It is only wood boys.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 11:47 pm:    Well, you know what the say about the heat in the kitchen, Matt, but the nut of this thread’s got nothin' to do with the wood ........so, maybe, I dunno, maybe read it again? So, as the mystery is hyped further in the ad (instead of re-writing it,) we will continue to speak that truth thingy: A conservative assessment from a 'semi-informed' buyer's perspective - 10 = mint: -"lost" document regarding the incredible mystery that rolls our eyes to begin with drops any potential of an 11 > 10 -extra holes on the machinehead drops a "mint" to a 9 – certainly pet peeve of mine -rewired with no mention of the condition of the original magnets...9 > 8 -submerged/cock-eyed fitting back cavity plate, additional confusion and general bullshit from the ad, 8 > 7.5 "Buy It Now" still not satisfied at ~ $1,300.00. My best gues is it'll sit...or someone will end up with a lightly butchered and over-priecd Scruggs Pro (a little editorial on my part...thought I’d just add that in) Sooooo, we are right back where we started…at Daveunderscoreg’s initial post. hmm…   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:10 am:    Strings, I guess you hit the nail on the head-this seller should take the $1,300 and run ! The guitar is a very nice instrument and will be a fine addition to any collection. Its really weird however how he posted Dave H's letter in it original form EVEN AFTER DAVE H HIMSELF Insinuated that the idea of this being some sort of rare one of a kind guitar is ridiculous. I think this seller is holding out for a $10K bid...   Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:46 am:    I'm wondering if Mr. Sinmil and the unfortunate (and probably innocent) Davehowardcustom are still following this thread. Perhaps they have fell out over this auction. I'd sure like to see what else they have to say in their defence. six   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:05 am:    This has little to do with the Scruggs. Some dork bought a half-remembered, worthless load of bull$#!+ (NOT a guitar) and thought he'd won the friggin' lottery! It was all about the $$$ & the load of bull$#!+ from the get-go. After he'd had it proven that he had a fairly ordinary (though excellent) item for sale and that the load of bull$#!+ he'd bought was worthless, he felt cornered and lashed out. It's really just that simple, 'cause that's what small, greedy, simple people do. ...and for this, I spent 4 years on a bull$#!+ Psych degree?   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:24 am:    Ohhh! I just had the best bowl-and-a-half of late-nite ceral, "Kelloggs Carmel Nut Crunch".....damn! Guess that's an advantage of having the little waesles around. First of all, Dave, you NEED no one to cover your back out here...but I think I can speak for many that we are more than glad to do it. Further, you still give DaveH the benefit of the doubt... Next, it is also a bit of an odd thing or a major oversite on "Sinboy"'s part in that he's obvoiusly been lurkin' around here for a while prior to this thread/sale and never searches out the history of this axe...the engine here is quite powerful and the subject rich. Finally, big thanks to John_S for posting the specimen that would draw the exponential jing...and he accomplished that end without saying a thing... Anyway, I've said enough...g'night   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 8:50 am:    Jchester.....I knew there was something I liked about u......Rutgers Class of '81 Psych alumni   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:42 am:    Oh....Dave....I just lost all respect for you! ; btw - I'm thinkin' this years birthday = new amp. It's been twenty years and it's about time. OK if I pick your brain thru email? Only, don't be tellin’ me that my new-found amp fetish is a Freudian thing that relates to mental damage done while experimenting with solid-state during my formative years. I'll fire the specs off when you give the OK. Brian...input too?   Rockon2112 Username: Rockon2112 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:22 pm:    Hey Dave, I haven't read through this since Wednesday when you were struggling to figure out if this guy was an idiot or a moron. Let me help: Webster's defines moron as "a person lacking in mental ability", and idiot as "a person born without the capacity to develop intelligence". I'd say the later is a compliment for this guy. I agree with Bob, however... Jackass fits nicely. Nice filet job on this guy Dave and crew!   Emckenrick Username: Emckenrick Registered: 10-2001 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:48 am:    $1800 and the reserve is not met with 8 hours to go. Yikes, I guess   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:57 pm:    The Scruggs auction ended at $2000.00. I wonder if the winner has been following this thread?   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 11:56 pm:    email it to him...   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 11:57 am:    Good Monday morning Guys, I felt the need for an epilogue to this funeral for a friend, (referring to my long lost love - the Scruggs). First off, I sincerely want to thank Dave G, Ibanez Freak 1960, and others for their input and education on this guitar. Although it broke my heart to hear it, you all helped point things out that I hope I was able to correct for bidders & the eventual buyer of this guitar. I've been playing guitars since I was 6 years old & I worked a summer at a golf course, while in High school. With my earnings I bought my first 2 real guitars: This Ibanez & a new 1978 Fender Strat. How many of us wish they had them first 2 fiddles back? That was my personal attachment to this Scruggs, and that's why when my friend sold it a few years ago, I wanted it back so badly. Unfortunately, I was in a financial bind & couldn't get the cash to buy it back (even at a garage sale price). So I went to the guy who just sold it on E Bay. I told him my story on this guitar (which I now know was crap.......I guess some slick sales rep was trying to snag my Scruggs for a shiny new bolt-on neck RG) Naaaaaaaah. What I told this guy was this is an incredible guitar, and I'd buy it back in a heart beat, but couldn't. I said, "If you want to grab this thing, I'll buy it back off of you when I get some cash flow in a few months" After he got it, he fell in love with it & much to my chagrin he said he'd changed his mind & was going to keep it. Needless to say, I'm still not rich, or I woulda gladly paid 2 grand to finally have her back. I had successfully "kept it in the family" for 30 years & always thought I'd own her again. I wonder who snagged it up. Anyone here? If so, you're getting a Monster guitar. In Sinmill's defense, he was an unfortunate 3rd party in this. It was NOT his guitar. He listed it for the guy who owned it, and just did what he was told & went off of my story also. He wasn't making shit up, trying to deceive anyone, or setting a ten grand reserve on this guitar. He just got caught up in the middle of it. That's why I tried to jump in & help... and pretty much take the hit for the "Story," on this guitar. I gotta admit, my wife always tells me I'm the biggest smart - ass in the world & gets on me for my sarcasm, but you guys are right there with me, LOL! I just wish it wouldn't have gotten so personal with Sinmill. He's really a good guy, great friend, and one hell of a guitarist who I've known since 1979. I feel bad about the whole thing, and just hope that whoever got the Scruggs loves it 1/2 as much as I did. Back in the day, Ibanez was making the best bang for the buck guitars in the world. I oned a ton of them, and wish I had every one back. I just recently made a trade & fell into a new Iceman IC400, with set neck & paralellogram inlays. This is one of the nicest guitars I've had in years. I Love it! That tweaked my memory, and since then I've been lurking E Bay for old Ibanez's that I might be able to snag as a "fixer - upper," or something. I can't believe the $$$ they're going for. It's good to see they're finally being recognized & appreciated for what they are. I'll be lurking here, and getting my education from you guys from here on out. I'd still give my left nut to have my old DT400 flametop Destroyer back. If you know anyone who's got one bastardized with a Kahler, snapped headstock, or submurged in an Australian swamp (like that one on E Bay) let me know. I wanna get back some of that Ibanez satisfaction! DaveHowardCustom   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 12:07 pm:    I don't know who got it? But you are welcome!   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 5:06 pm:    Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus! DHC - It's amazing to me that you can spin an entire wallpaper of text in reflection of this thread/transaction taking us back to your early childhood and leave out the part that led to objection. Let me lay it out for you. From Sinmil above: "Dave H. thanks for stepping in and offering your input. It does seem there are a few arrogant people on this site. I'll personally be gald when this auction is over. Dave G. took the email about the German Ivory factory hook...line...and sinker. Gary" No two-ways about it, this guy Sinmil is a f*ckhead (my-not-so-humble-opinion)...he should never have said what he said…and certainly straighten himself with ICW thru accountability - sincere apologies of his actions shortly thereafter. Instead he (and you in my book,) put it back on everyone else. Now, I'm guessin' your not stupid enough to miss this...after all it is the fulcrum from where all went south on Sinmil. You got the benefit of the doubt from 90%+ of the crew out here. How? I dunno! I'm a minority from the get-go. But you keep backin' this 'Great Innocent 3rd-Party Guy", and you might just shrink that group who are currently willing to overlook it...real quick. I'd stop rubbin' people's noses in it. That, coupled with the wool you pulled over the sellers head - 2K for a mediocre (subjective, but I'm entitled) Ibanez Professional...it still reeks! Sorry, but in the words of the infamous"Bubba" (who reeks in the same vein), "that dog don't hunt!" – all the way around!!   Jcmc64 Username: Jcmc64 Registered: 6-2006 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 5:56 pm:    DHC. I for one appreciate your trying to restore the peace regardless. Peace makers is what the world needs more of. Take the great amazing info here, and leave the rest...as in all forums, it can get pretty choppy in here some times, human nature does what it does, but most are good people at heart. Welcome and good luck in the Vintage Ibanez hunt. Definately need a thick wallet in that hunt these days!   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 6:21 pm:    War? wow! Gee Jc... I sure hope I'm part of the "most of us" I'd sure love to here you definition of (and route to) "peace"...but not out here...   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 6:21 pm:    Thanks, friend! I'll work on that thick wallet thang. Later, Dave   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 6:51 pm:    "I'd still give my left nut to have my old DT400 flametop Destroyer back." Reminds me of a button I found in a Youth Hostel in the Truro area (Devon) when I backpacked to Cornwall: "I would give my left arm to be ambidexterous!" British humour, just can't get enough of it... Ginger   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 9:31 am:    DHC, call Sam Ash Music in Huntington, NY. Ask them about the destroyer they have. It's minty mint, I've had it in hand. I woul;d imagine their # is on the net. I think they're asking $900. And... I have a Scruggs... like the one you sold. It has an issue but... the guitar rocks and I consider the issue to be part of the guitar's personality. If you got $2000 for yours... I wonder what I'd get for mine, I would give an honest description though, as opposed to your "slightly-off-base" description. Good luck with all your endeavors, you seem like a decent fellow.   Davehowardcustom Username: Davehowardcustom Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 2:13 pm:    Thanks, 'Zilla, I'll check into it, but since the Scruggs "use to be mine," and I ain't the one who got 2 grand for it, I might be dreaming again. Remember, that wasn't my auction... I just tried to step up & take a hit, where it was due & smooth the waters a bit. I thought I was gonna get 'er back for chump change a few years ago, and if I would've it NEVER would left my house again, let alone have hit E Bay! I heard she's on her way to Europe, now. (Waaaaaaaaa) Thanks for the tip, and kind words. Hopefully in the future I can grow from this experience & become a respectable member of the ICW! Later, DHC   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:51 pm:    DAve, I think I can speak for the "collected Masses" on this...All admirers of Ibanez are welcome to this forum.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 9:26 am:    Admiring Ibanez "Vintage" guitars...now there's an original thought! Hear hear!! And a challenge too! What seems to have evolved is that ICW has turn into the "eBay - Ibanez Seller Analysis Channel" and the deals we get...or don't. What a major f*ckin’ yawn that is… Howz about using our writing abilities to expand on any aspect of the physical make-ups and subsequent experiences when PLAYING these wonderful crafts of furniture.   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:15 am:    Hear we go AGAIN ! Another "Optimistic" Ebay seller. Don't these people do any research before listing ? This guitar, albiet very nice, sells in the $380-$450 range at most ! Ebay Item #180114660501   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:16 am:    And ONLY $100 to ship in the USA   Laurentb Username: Laurentb Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 4:33 am:    Geez, I'm not even an expert and I'd know not to pay $ 1000 for that one...   Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 5:45 am:    Strings....? six   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 7:50 am:    This expensive Ibanez trend is... all our faults so... I'd expect a bit of this to continue. But yes, this is stupid without a doubt.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 10:55 am:    Six...   Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 1:00 pm:    Ebay Item #180114067798 The Bear   Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 1:04 pm:    Ebay Item #320110186662 Check the BIN... The Bear   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 2:24 pm:    At least they have good tremoloes with the original bars still present. I've seen such ridiculous prices for these parts last month (about 200 US dollars for the trem without the bar and 45 dollars just for the original bar), that I can imagine that people think 700 dollars is reasonable for a complete Roadstar II. Ginger   Dave_g Username: Dave_g Registered: 1-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 8:44 am:    Heres another classic...Love the reference to the $3,000 Super Deluxe 59'er with a NECK THRU body....Seriously are people delusional or what ? I cannot believe that someone would post that and not think anyone would research before plunking down $750 on a "pretty good condition" (could,t he have at least attempted to find a camera angle that didn't show all the chips ?)$350 guitar ?.......The guitar that never was ? Ebay Item #130111127508   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 3:11 pm:    Its buy it now 750 but at the bottom says if you use the 950 buy it now you get the vintage case. A generous offer there guys, snap it up quick!   Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 3-2002 Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:59 am:    Strings six   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 1:50 am:    8^\   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 1-2005 Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 1:54 am:    Brian...where the hell is that pic of you sweatin' your #1...I forget the thread name! Best to you and the girls!   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 9:39 am:    Here is is....http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/17 /2285.html?1160515390

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