Replace or replate Gibraltar bridge??

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Author Message   Steved1 Username: Steved1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:44 am:    Hi, I've just picked up a 1978 Musician which is in pretty good condition apart from normal bumps and bruises. The poor old gabraltar bridge is really showing it's age...not bent or sagging at all, just lost it's gold sheen and the remaining plating is mottled and not attractive. The studs and nuts are also rusted....is it worth replating the bridge or should I look for a replacement unit. There's a guy on ebay selling them but at $165 US it's jsut too much cash. Also the Sure- Grip knobs are either broken or missing - are these available? Cheers and thanks Steve   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:25 am:    I'd say: have the hardware cleaned and replated. If you have many parts to replate or work together with some other collectors you might create a bigger plating job and get discount. Of course you will always pay the gold, but then it is less work. Super Grip (I) are ridiculously priced these days (about $25.- a piece ain't funny anymore). For the time being you can order Super Grip II for $6.- a piece (NOS) from Ibanez. And be very patient. Ginger   Laurentb Username: Laurentb Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:03 am:    It's funny to read this forum, with everyone trying to get their instruments to look as nice as possible (like I do as well) while on other forums especially the very young people go for the so-called 'relic' look, actually go so far as to damage guitars to make them look older.   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:09 am:    Hopefully, they're damaging Gibsons and Fenders and leaving the old Ibanez axes alone. Hey, maybe this explains some of the hack jobs we've seen on some of the old IBZ's.   Laurentb Username: Laurentb Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:29 am:    Partly, it's a matter of luck: both my then neighbour friend and I bought our Musicians more than twenty years ago, but the gold plating on his one suffered much more than mine, simply because his hands sweat more than mine.   Steved1 Username: Steved1 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 7:43 pm:    It is fuuny to contrast an Ibanez collector to a fender collector - a fendor collector will pay thousands (even 10's of thousands) for a mid seveties strat that was made when CBS were putting crappy quality into the market, and he'll pay even more if it's been severely abused and has "character", whereas an Ibanez collector will pay often less than $1000 for an Ibanez classic that was made during Hoshino's best years of quality and if often in original 9/10 condition - make sense of that!!!   Rockon2112 Username: Rockon2112 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:16 am:    I ran into a kid who ran a 6" lag bolt with an eye through his crappy $200.00 Schecter... to hook his strap on! What a joke... lame. In regards to one of the questions above, I too (being a noob) would want to know if the $165 for the Gibraltars on e-Bay are fairly priced. The 2619 I picked up a few weeks ago is in great shape, but the bridge is showing a bit of wear. Funny, the tailpiece and cloud don't have any wear to speak of.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:21 am:    Fairly...? That's a matter of perspective. I paid 25 or 30 guilders (11.50-13.50euros) each for a NOS Gibraltar tailpiece with cloud and a Gibraltar bridge in 1994/1995 or so in the clearance. The list price would have been two to four times the clearance price, (on www.ibanezrules you can find some original old price lists for parts) so that's still a lot less than they are asking on eBay. But the nature of auctions is that the buyers decide whether they are going beyond that list price or not. And buyers are getting less patient. Who's prepared to use a temporary (non-original) solution and wait for a coincidental find in some old music shop or on the fleamarket? We all want it to be perfect and we want it now. So salesmen take advantage of that. From the seller's point of view that's fair. From the point of view of players who know the old list prices that's a rip-off. But because of the worldwide information exchange almost every seller knows what prices are possible for a part. So it's become harder to find bargains. Personally I find $165.- for a Gibraltar is actually ridiculous, although a few months ago he asked $185. I've seen a very good chrome one (no wrapping bot no corrosion either) offered for a lot less ($90.- or so). It doesn't hurt to watch the market for a few months and just wait with the money still in your pocket. These expensive parts don't run away. Ginger   Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:09 pm:    It all depends on what kind of "collector" one is. For a garden variety 90% so-so collector, replating is perfectly ok and will consider old parts sold at higher than original list price "rip-offs". To a real serious collector, finding a "new old stock" part that he needs will result in him saying a prayer praising the lord for his good fortune and thank the seller for willing to part with such a jewel. A 1963 Ferrari TR had a list price of US$3,000. One in collector's condition will go for over a million today, if you can find one for sale. Judging value of collector items based on list price is just plain stupid. Ace   Rockon2112 Username: Rockon2112 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:45 pm:    Thanks Ginger & Ace, I probably should have re-worded the question, cause I missed the mark... are these typical prices to see for NOS parts, and is this guy on e-Bay legit? The price on the bridge just went down to BIN of $150.00. Only having two vintage Ibanez (so far) and my AR1200 being pretty immaculate, going the extra mile to get my 2619 spiffed up (and it doesn't need anything but a good polishing other than the worn bridge) isn't really an issue. Thanks for the input!   Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:13 pm:    My 2617 with original and new old stock Gibraltors.   Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:18 pm:    I'm still looking for the cloud, tail-piece, etc. This is like a long term quest. Ace   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:32 pm:    Ace is right: "Judging value of collector items based on list price is just plain stupid." But what is in my opinion an absolutely legitimate way to look whether a price is not too high, is to compare for example the 1980 list price of the part to the 1980 list price of a cheap model it was mounted on. For instance the chrome Gibraltar bridge was mounted with anchors (no sustain block) in combination with a chrome Quik Change II on the ST50. Now we look the part up in the 1980 pricelist. http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/price/1980/Jan /p10.jpg And we find $43.50 for the bridge with anchors. http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/price/1980/Jan /p09.jpg And $17.00 for the Quik Change tailpiece. So in 1980 these combination of parts cost $60.50 Compare this to the 1980 list price of the whole ST50 guitar: http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/price/1980/Jan /p04.jpg The guitar was $325.- So the value of the parts was about 1/5 of the value of the guitar. Now, if you need both parts, should you pay $165.- plus $75.- makes a total of $240.- or wouldn't it be better to buy another ST50 for $300.-? You should ask yourself that, certainly when also tuners and potmeter knobs are involved. The sum of the prices of individual vintage parts is always higher than of a complete guitar. That's the same for cars. If you try to collect the Ferrari that Acetan described part by part, you would probably need several millions. So it is sometimes better to buy a second Ferrari in order to restore the first one after a major damage. It would be nice if the prices of parts like the Gibraltar bridge were a bit more reasonable than the $185.- this seller started with several months ago. But he is free to ask as much as HE wants for them. He is NOT breaking any law, if that's what you mean. Some of us are very satisfied with what they got from him, others are sceptic. I tend to be sceptic, but my opinion is coloured of course because I was so lucky to buy my NOS parts for so little money. As I said, I have occasionally seen these parts for less. Sometimes as good as new, sometimes very vaguely photographed and pitted. With NOS parts in the original wrapping you are sure you don't buy corroded ones. I think it depends on the value of the whole guitar and on the possible increase of value after replacement of the part, what is a wise decision. As you can see, discussing it helps a little... If your guitar is worth $1000.- in its current state, its value might increase with 20% or more if you invest 16.5% or 15%. MIGHT... you won't hear me say WILL, because what you get for your guitar in an auction depends on so many things. And if replating is worthwhile depend on how bad the wear and corrosion are, because pitting or local corrosion CAN be very aggressiv and "eat" material away. If that is the case, you are replating holes, and that's a waste of money. If it's only wear of the plating, replating can be a good solution. I have seen some beautiful examples on ICW. Ginger   Ekkerman Username: Ekkerman Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:36 pm:    see my post called ; GOLD!   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 5:44 pm:    Here is something with a bridge AND a cloud on it for $255.- Pity there are no good close-ups of the bridge and tailpiece. You could be lucky. What do you think? Ebay Item #200102524425 Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 10:59 pm:    Ace cloud and tail can be bought new form Ibanez.com USA under 2004 AR3000VV. Cloud cost 28.00. The Tailpiece is 54.00 US dollars. Keep in mind that when I bought my cloud it came without screws. http://ibanez.com/parts/2004_PARTS/el_guitar/spec/ AR3000VV.html   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 11:02 pm:    PS. you can find the parts pricing index by clicking the support button. Brian   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:55 am:    Brian, I didn't dare to mention that option, because I don't know whether the real diehard collectors accept recent parts (2004) on a vintage guitar. Personally I find your solutions excellent. Pity they didn't reproduce the Gibraltar (I) bridge. I still find it difficult to accept that my NOS bridge and tailpiece/cloud set represent such a high value. But it is totally up to the buyers what they are prepared to pay of course. Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:30 am:    From what was said by Orval and JD those are NOS parts that were used on that model and probably still are. I would say get them while they last because in a few years they will be unavailable.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:48 am:    If they can sell those AR-3000 parts, why not the original style cloud tailpieces they made for the 2670REs? If they can make 128+ of them... you'd think they'd try to offset tooling costs by cranking out a bunch.   Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 12:50 pm:    Thank you for the tip 'freak. Will order a set first thing Monday and do a side by side with the vintage parts. Ace   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 3:46 pm:    You are welcome Ace!

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