IBANEZ BOWL BACK MANDOLIN

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Author Message   Citizensage Username: Citizensage Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 10:12 am:    I have not yet put on Ebay a mandolin I aquired locally. It is a bowl back design. It says IBANEZ (in block letters) no.805, ABCIENNE FONDEE, MAISON FN 1881. It is in excellent condition and seems extremely well put togather. You guys interested? Do you know anything about it? I cant find a single bowl back Ibanez in all my searching.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 8:15 pm:    Are you "Romansells" on eBay, because we're looking at this thing right now? Ebay Item #220113437612 I GUESS NOT! It is NOT the same IBANEZ this website is about, because that was NOT founded in 1881. I think it is the original Spanish luthier brand, the label is in French. If you really had this instrument in your posession, you would be able to quote the label properly, which you obviously can't, because the strings in the picture are in the way. We know how to find a mandolin when we need one. We even find them, when we're not looking for them. We don't need a broker. Please don't try this again. Ginger   Citizensage Username: Citizensage Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 5:19 am:    So, I do have this thing in my hand, and the one I have does look considerable like the one on Ebay, but mine is in better shape. Mine has a plastic endpiece around the butt and I have the original (well, or at least a perfectly fitting) case. That wood laminated into the top is VERY hard, an interesting substitute for a pickguard. I am not entirly sure how your logic gets you to the place where you can say wether or not I have the mandolin in my possession or not, or what exactly I should not "try again". THe guy on Ebay has the same one as me. Its that simple. Thanks for the info though.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 8:49 am:    Ginger you tried to rip me a new asshole one time for acting like that when that for sure rip off was selling the olive pf. Whats up with you? Welcome newbie. I have seen these before and wiull see what i can dig up for you.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 9:03 am:    Citizenrage: Please accept my apology for Ginger. Sometimes he types faster than he thinks. Let me echo Ibanezfreak1960 sentiments: welcome. I saw one of these at the Reading, PA guitar show last summer. It was in the original cardboard shipping box. Was that you? If not, that would make 3 or 4 that I've seen over the last several years. So, although they are not well known, they aren't that rare. If you have better pictures, send them to me (attached to an email) and I'll pass them onto HoshinoUSA to see if they have any further info. JohnS SysOp   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:30 am:    Ooops, you mean you really have exactly the same mandolin, with exact the same mandolin at the same time, with several letters of the French label text misspelled/unreadable in exact the same week the other one is auctioned?* In that I case I'm very sorry for judging you. *(The chance that this happens is statistically very small. But as pointed out before by a wiser guy, there are two things that should not be trusted: lies and statistics...). So please forgive me my irritated reaction. It's just my own projection because of several business rip off scars. I got a bit paranoid I guess. Just post some beautiful pics of your mandolin to shut me up. I deserve it. Oh, and uh... welcome! Ginger   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:54 am:    BTW "Ancienne maison fondée en 1881" means "Old house founded in 1881" Hoshino Gakki was founded in 1908. http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/105/105033.html So your instrument is probably from Spain, from Valencia. In this French pricelist are several Spanish Ibanez instruments. http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:R77ANIZ9J64J: www.interencheres.com/cat/resultats03001-200606100 004.doc+Ibanez+Salvador+mandoline&hl=nl&ct=clnk&cd =7&gl=nl The makers are probably the heirs of Salvador Ibanez. That would explain this "Old House". Shakin' Stevens was probably not involved. Ginger   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 7:18 pm:    John (and Paul, of course) According to some info Ibanez made at least two round-back (tater-bug) mandolins, but that number is not either one's model number, so it might be spanish Ibanez.. I'm still "on a hunt" for Ibanez F-mandolin... fox   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:58 pm:    Fox: Are you referring to the model 80 and 100?   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:19 am:    John, just those, if my memory serves me right.. I was looking very closely at one A-type mandolin here in Finland, and then I studied the Ibanez book's mandolin section very intensively.. Those two were the only roundbacks if I remember right.. .)   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:35 am:    Now another one has been listed. The label has the same graphics as the one auctioned by "Romansells", but some text was added. According to the seller it says: "X 68 .805 Ibanez Since 1908" The seller concludes from the "X 68" part, that it would be a 1968 instrument. Could be. Could be older too. Ebay Item #150123697496 I see NOTHING on the label I could read as "Ibanez since 1908". But not all of it is visible. I find it strange that the seller does NOT mention the text part starting with: "THE WORLD'S S[...]" Neither does he mention the French text in the red band, which seems to be identical with the one in Romansells's mandoline, which clearly states that it is from the old house, founded in 1881. And then this whole 1880's estate story... I don't know what to think of it. It looks like the seller want this instrument to be a Hoshino Gakki product in order to make more money. But as we know, there is NOT really an Ibanez mandolin hype. The prices people get for second hand Ibanez mandolins are relatively low. There is NO hype on these fine small instruments. Jazzzbo has been trying to sell his 513 for some time now, and didn't get a good offer yet. And then we're talking about an instrument that IS suitable for bluegrass, which these Napolitan models are not. They are for classical mandolin orchestras and difficult to handle. They slide from your clothes all the time. I have several, and they're typical wall hangers. If you want something useful in a band with a nice "chop", buy an A model or an F model, like Fox says. Ginger   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 7:40 am:    Ginger, those mandolins could well be italian imports, imported by Hoshino.. but the right era would then be pre-WW II.. According to Ibanez book, one Ryohei Hoshino travelled round quite a bit, and "from Italy he found mandolines", that model is clearly napolitan "tater bug" with armrest and all.. Not quite your first choice for folk, bluegrass or such, as you stated. Verdict: not Ibanez-built, Ibanez import most likely. Ibanezes own mandolins from sixties until now have the highest model numbers 'round 529 or so, I have some interest in models 524-529 (those are the "F" or also known as "fern" type bluegrass ones..   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 9:10 pm:    If Hoshino Gakki was involved as importer/distributor, the mentioning of an "Old House, founded 1881" on the label IN FRENCH would be totally unnecessary and deceiving, since the Hoshino Gakki company did NOT exist until 1908. A French text on a label is meant for the french speaking market, most likely France itself. We must look for an era and a market location when an where classical mandolin orchestras were popular. In France itself there were several successful mandolin builders like Gélas and Gérome, who tried alternative designs, and still built quite a lot of instruments in the sixties, so there was obviously a market for mandolins in France then. Now I think of it... I have a nice paperback of 272 pages about the History of the Mandolin, which could give us some more information about a luthier "Ibanez" who started his business in 1881. Author: Robert Janssens Title: "Geschiedenis van de mandoline" Year: 1982 Place: Antwerpen (BE) Publisher: Metropolis It states only one luthier Ibanez, and that's: Salvator Ibanez, died 1920. Luthier in Valencia, end of the 19th beginning of the 20th century. Builds guitars and mandolins. After his death TWO brothers continue his work. Label: Salvator Ibanez Valencia Bajada San Francisco This story can fit in, because of the two brothers, who continued his work from 1920 on. For the moment I stick with this story, because I can't imagine that the Japanese could play a significant role in the distribution of Spanish mandolins in France. I think there are plenty bilingual Basques who could do that better. Ginger

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