| Author |
Message |
    
Rankmanugly
Username: Rankmanugly
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 4:27 am: | |
G'day all,
Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this acoustic I own. Ive had it for about 5 years and reckon its great. Im just curious as to its age...the sticker in the soundhole says its MIJ and i think its reletively aged, but the serial number guides dont offer much help.
Its serial is 82050970H
model M310
Inside the soundhole, up where the neck joins inside the body there is another number stamped: 820331
Its blonde, solid top and bottom(the bottom is nice and flamey), top and bottom binding, neck binding, abalone dot inlays.
Its a pretty standard looking acoustic, but if anyone knows anything about when its from etc thatd be great.
cheers |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 6:05 pm: | |
So, what's the problem? It was built in 1982.
If you go one level higher, to Acoustic Guitars, and then type <ctrl>+F and then V310, you find a nice example of the way the serial numbers of the acoustics were composed.
Caddyjim's guitar had serial no. 83061540H and was identified as a 1983 guitar.
What I would like to know, is the meaning of the H in the serial no. of these pre-1987 guitars.
Because I think 05 and 06 are the months.
Test your knowledge on this!
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 8:56 pm: | |
1982. I agree. 'Twas a good year. 
Check out http://www.break-even.org/ibzscans/1983/accu/82-83 -7.jpg
Best wishes. |
Telstar
Username: Telstar
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:08 am: | |
Check out the musik-meinl archive:
http://db.musik-meinl.de/index.php?direct_mainmenu =/service/katalogarchiv
Look for 1981 Flamed Maple Dreadnoughts, a brochure in four languages. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:26 am: | |
Nice...
 |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:47 pm: | |
Yeah, nice... but WHY would they put Mahogany necks on Maple guitars???
Seems (and looks) goofy to me. |
Rankmanugly
Username: Rankmanugly
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 2:19 am: | |
Gemberbier -cheers for the info. I didnt say anywhere that there was a problem did I? I'm just curious about it...
Mine has the mohogany neck i believe, does look a bit odd with the dark grain neck up against the lighter body....
thanks guys |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 5:36 am: | |
Just couldn't find a real challenge in mentioning the year. Anyone for the H yet? Anyone for the month yet?
About the mahogany/maple contrast: we discussed this some time ago. It was about some lawsuit LP model. I think it's not particularly tasteful.
When I see maple flames, I want to see them all over the guitar.
Ginger |
Rankmanugly
Username: Rankmanugly
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 6:05 am: | |
What is the reason behind not making the top maple flame also? Is it a cost thing? Or a resonance thing? A maple flame back and sides seems to hide the joy that is flames- even if they are pretentious.
The H wouldnt be the same as for the electrics would it- as in denoting which factory it came from?? |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 6:20 am: | |
Point is: Terada started making archtop electrics for Hoshino in 1987 and used the H.
But we are talking 1981, 1982 and 1983 guitars here!
So: what does the H stand for? |
Ubetcha
Username: Ubetcha
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:26 am: | |
I'd be interested to know the answer myself, I have an NW350 serial 83100806 H. Iknow it's an '83, New Wood model 350, but even the original owner I got it from didn't know what the H indicated. I won't even guess at it. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:40 am: | |
For now we have the following serial numbers in this thread:
82050970H
83061540H
83100806H
Find the logic in the numbers and you know what H can NOT be.
Crucial is the number formed by the the 3rd and 4th digit. I bet the highest you will find on these beauties is .... 12.
Ginger |
Ubetcha
Username: Ubetcha
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 8:53 am: | |
That's what I've been told, the second two digits are supposed to be the month of manufacture, or the day. From your graphic, looks like it's indeed the month. Pardon my ignorance, but are there any other letters besides "H" that end serial #'s of any Ibanez acoustics of the same period? If so, what do they indicate? Is it a factory code, for where they were constructed? |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 9:24 am: | |
I have NOT seen any other letters yet...
I there aren't any other letters on Ibanez flattop acoustics of this era going to pop-up, then that indeed points in the direction of one constant factor: that COULD be either the manufacturer OR the customer of that manufacturer (Hoshino). I have no other ideas about it yet.
So, the question we should ask, is: "Who built the Ibanez flattop acoustics for Hoshino in the early '80s?"
That could be Terada. So did Hoshino choose Terada to build their archtops from 1987 on, because they had already good experiences with them as flattop builders? (I know Terada makes flattops as well as archtops).
My 1st thesis is: H stands for the customer (Hoshino).
You can shoot at this thesis with serial numbers of Ibanez flattop serial numbers of the early '80s that have another letter than H behind it.
My 2nd thesis is: since using the first letter of the customers name in the serial number is something we see also Ibanez archtops from 1987 on made by Terada, Terada was already building acoustic flattops for Hoshino in the early '80s.
I think this 2nd thesis can be easily verified with Jim Donahue.
Ginger |
Ubetcha
Username: Ubetcha
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 10:35 am: | |
Awesome Sherlock Holmes analysis, Ginger. I shall await further illumination & edification, from those like yourself...who know WTF they're talking about. FWIW I pick the Hoshino angle..until a different & unattributable letter shows up on another guitar. Thanks,
Frank |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 2:20 pm: | |
Hey everybody, Ginger's got a fan !!
The Bear |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
Not bad for a detective who has an obvious problem formulating his sentences in a brief and yet grammatical correct manner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ulej_3ovYg
 |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 7:32 pm: | |
Ginger, you should post in Jim Donohue's forum about that H suffix, although I see he hasn't visited there in a few months. I think he sorta' said, though, that H7 was a Terada thing of limited use, but that H was likely meant to be Hoshino.
I'm going with your theory #1 - Hoshino. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 8:07 pm: | |
I was hoping that some of the USA guys, who are closer to him would do that.
I always read things like he's too busy running his own guitar company.
The H7 thing is different. After 1986 production of many Ibanez guitars moved to other factories like Terada (hollow and semi-hollow bodies Artists rebaptised ArtSTARS), Iida (solid body Artists), Yoojin (Korea) etc.
They all had to use the following system:
Factory (or customer) letter, followed by the last digit of the year.
So:
H7 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1987
H8 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1987
H9 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1989
H0 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1990
H1 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1991
H2 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1992
H3 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1993
H4 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1994
H5 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1995
H6 = (for) Hoshino by Terada 1996
Then in 1997 they had to start a whole new system, because they were back at 7 again.
What Jim Donahue said, was that H7 was used incorrectly for a while on some guitars that left the guitar AFTER 1987. This is about an administrative mistake, not about the system itself. That continued to exist for 10 years.
Ginger |
Bushy243
Username: Bushy243
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 1:55 am: | |
I have an Ibanez V282TV with serial no. 86020723T
Anyone like to take a stab at this one?
All sensable suggestions would be appreciated as I am confused by the discussion so far on serial numbers. I bet i'm not the only one.
Bushy |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 9:10 am: | |
Bushy, I think that your guitar was built in the Terada factory (owned by Gretch, I think) in 1986. Although there is confusion about these single-letter postfixes. Terada seems like a good bet. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 8:14 am: | |
So, I'll add myself to the end of this list... I just bought an M310. I don't have the branded number off the base of the neck yet, but interestingly that is the *only* serial number on my AW-75. This M310 also has a serial number on the inside label, in addition to the one branded inside.
So, now we have the following serial numbers to think about:
82050970H (820331 branded base of neck) [Rankmanugly's M310]
83061540H
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310]
I think these first 6 digits on the label serial number are likely to be date codes, as suggested earlier. We know the first two digits are 19XX=Year; Like Ginger, I suspect next two digits are YY=Month and then probably ZZ=Day, but that's a guess. Maybe the final two digits are the number of the guitar that day. Modern day Taylor uses a scheme that's similar to this.
And the H suffix??? It probably just means Hoshino, like we were debating earlier here. These guitars were likely built in Hoshino's primary contract manufacturer of this era. But, that's also a guess. I don't know if that's FujiGen Gakki or Terada. Probably some place not far from Nagoya, Japan. Ginger, do you know?
Hey, ubetcha, think you can post up a picture of that natural wood model from '83? |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Fuji Gen Gakki, did NOT use any letter to indicate in which factory a guitar was built until the production move of 86/87: the letter was strictly used for the month in 1982.
So, it was NOT Fuji Gen Gakki.
What we already knew through the Captain's serial number thread, was that the PREFIX "H" was used by TERADA from 1987 on to indicate that a guitar was built FOR Hoshino.
My guess is, that BEFORE that, TERADA built already the acoustics for Hoshino and used the "H" SUFFIX. All they did to addapt their numbering to the new Ibanez system, was that they turned that old SUFFIX into a PREFIX, but the last digit of the year behind it followed by a 0 (as a splitter) and then four more digits for the production number.
Chazmo, you surprise me with an entire NEW hypothesis for these Terada built acoustics: dating guitars to the very day they were finished. There is one way to check that hypothesis: look if you can find a number higher than 31 on the digits 5 and 6. Until now the highest in the list is 31th of March.
So if you find 32 or higher, the hypothesis is dead. Also if you find 30 or higher in February etc.
So, a challenge for all members: shoot at will!
There is of course one disadvantage to this system: it would mean that the day production was limited to 99 guitars. We should know more about the size of the team of luthiers.
Do I KNOW? Of course NOT! I'm not JD, I was just finishing high school in 1982/83 and on my way to university in 1983, so any management function in the factory was out of the question, haha...
No, I'm just applying logics, like you do.
But this hypothesis of yours is something I'd check directly with JD, if I were you.
I think, it's a •••• good hypothesis.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
Taylor guitars have serial numbers that indicate the day the guitar build is started, so that's what made me think of it. It seems possible Terada was using a similar type of system for these Ibanez "H" acoustics.
You're right, of course, about the counter-examples Ginger, if anyone has one. Maybe we can build a larger sampling as time goes on here. I'll start going through these acoustic threads to see if we missed any other serial numbers to add to the list. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 10:09 pm: | |
Oh, we might also include Bushy's serial number from his V282... It has a T suffix rather than H, but that might be synonymous if they're all from the Terada factory and use the same system.
86020723T - 1986, Feb. 7th, 23rd guitar that day. That's the theory. I'll go hunt down any others I can find with H or T suffixes. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 11:18 pm: | |
JohnS has an NW40, part of the Natural Wood series. The serial number on the inside label is 83010633H. The neck block inside has the number 821201 stamped on it.
So, 83010633H seems to fit: 1983, Jan. 6th, 33rd guitar that day. The branded 821201 may be done when the neck is built, which might sit on a shelf until the guitar is built. Note, that if we're right that the guitar was built during the first week of 1983, it's certainly reasonable that a neck built in 1982 could be in it. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 11:24 pm: | |
Asb2 has another NW40, serial number 83010655H. Same day as JohnS's guitar? Hmm... Possible, I suppose, but that's almost too coincidental to believe. |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 4:59 pm: | |
Chazmo:
My M340TV's serial number is 81090213J; nothing on the neck block. So, how does a "J" fit into the "scheme"?
Breaking down the serial number into: YY/MM/DD/##Guitar_Produced_That_Day is an interesting theory.
Your M310's SN would break down to the 61st guitar finished on March 31, 1982. Seems like a lot of guitars to finish in a day. But I guess it's possible. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 6:29 pm: | |
Hi John. Thanks for the data on your M340TV. I don't know how J fits, John. Do you think J is another factory code? Probably. Wonder what other factories were in use for acoustics in 1981? We seem to have Terada (denoted with H), I know Owari Asahi has an "O" preceding the branded number on the neck (and no serial number on the label), and now "J".
Yeah, maybe the last two digits aren't the # produced... Dunno. I'm thinking that month and day are looking good though.
Still have more threads to sift through. See if I have more time today. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 7:16 pm: | |
Ah, so we may have a counter-example. It could just be it's another factory ("D"), or maybe they changed things in 1984, but who knows...
There's a JA-500, made in Japan, in one of the threads, serial number 84070068D. This clearly isn't showing the day since it's "00". |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 7:19 pm: | |
Oh, and eagleman has a JA-500 with 84070070D. Interesting... [well, maybe to me at least] |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
Another "D"... Cheechaco has an LS 550, Lonestar series Ibanez. Serial # 86091004D - made in Japan.
Artfield has an AE700 92040042 T Japan. This "T" clearly doesn't use a day code either since it's "00".
Hasenobu has a ragtime R-400, serial is 802103 (Japan) on the label. So, this one doesn't follow the 8-digit idea at all, and is more likely following the neck brand stamp 6-digit approach XXYYYY (XX=19XX, YYYY=number produced that year (maybe?)). But what factory was this built in? No idea.
Well, I think that's enough of this silliness for now. Clear as mud, eh? Best wishes, folks. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 2:26 pm: | |
Let's update the list. If anyone knows more about the factory codes for "J" and "D" (and of course "H"), please holler...:
82050970H (820331 branded base of neck) [Rankmanugly's M310]
83061540H [CaddyJim's ???]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
83010633H [JohnS's NW40]
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 7:05 am: | |
Let's put them in historical order and see what that brings:
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310]
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded base of neck)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40]
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
Let's think about this....
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 9:14 am: | |
Excellent idea, Ginger.
I saw a third M310 and added to the list numerically. The text of the auction listed the serial number, but I could *not* confirm it from the low res picture of the real label.
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310]
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded base of neck)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40] (821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 7:39 pm: | |
I received my M310 (perfect!), and wanted to update the list wtih my neck information (John, thanks for fixing the list!):
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40] (821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 6:07 pm: | |
So the H seems to be marking the '82-'83 era,
The D seems typical for JA-500 and Lonestars.
We have a Lonestar specialist on board.
There is nobody with so many Lonestars on ICW as Acetan. It would be nice if he would provide some (key parts of) serial numbers with the letter and - if possible - info about the factory quoted from the lable.
The last two digits are NOT important for the list. Just the first six digits and the letter are enough. And then of course the type and if mentioned the manufacturer/ location where it was built.
Acetan, what do you say? Are going to bring us closer to the answers on questions like:
were there ever higher numbers than 31 used on the fifth and sixth digit? (is it possible that it is the day of the month, or is it out of the question: you can shoot the hypothesis with one serial number that doesn't fit in).
If not, then it's still just an hypothesis, because it's possible that the monthly capacity was under 3200 acoustic guitars. BTW, that's still more than 100 a day.
Do all of the Lonestars carry the D letter in their serial numbers? Or was it just in a certain era?
Looking out for your expertise,
Y.s.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 11:11 am: | |
(hoping Acetan sees Ginger's post above...)
Adding Erichbtoholic V-302 to the list. Note, Ginger, this seems to invalidate the assumption that "H" was the only marking during 82-83. Could be this is the same factory but different marking for the product line(s)? Who knows. The neck brandings do seem to be sequential (which is interesting):
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V-302](820938 branded on neck)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:33 pm: | |
Two 12-strings, both with a T serial number?
but Pat's AE700 from 1992 doesn't fit in.
But what's important, is that the label says 92040042 T Japan. That leaves all Japanese factories open as possible manufacturers, including Terada. If it said "Korea", that would be out of the question.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:36 am: | |
12-strings with a T... interesting! Guess we can't conclude anything about that. What's really interesting, Ginger, is that Erichbtoholic's branded number is on a back brace, not on the base of the neck (and there's nothing branded on the neck). Maybe this does indicate a different factory than the others!
Adding erichbtoholic's friend's V302 to the list (unfortunately I don't have his branded serial number):
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 7:08 pm: | |
Adding another V302 that Erichbtoholic posted a picture of.
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Albatross
Username: Albatross
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 9:48 pm: | |
You folks know alot more about this than I do. But my NW350 has the SN 83081513H. Can I be on the list too? |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2007 - 10:04 am: | |
Of course, it fits in nicely, so why not:
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
The more I think about it, the more I tend to believe Terada used H, because the T was used by another factory. So, I was thinking: "Did Tokai Gakki build acoustics?" > Yes!
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokai_Guitars
Did they build (acoustic) guitars for Ibanez???
Right now I needs some coffee with lots of sugar, perhaps Harry knows. I don't know that much about Tokai, which is an interesting brand though...
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 6:53 pm: | |
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:53 pm: | |
A771877 (Rpeletey's Concord 671) (old Fuji Gen serial number system with a letter PREfix indicating the month of production)
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400] (NO LETTER AT ALL???!!!)
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
Looks like 1980 falls in a transition period between the old Fuji Gen system and the newer systems. I wonder if there is any information about the manufacturer of Hasenobu's guitar mentioned on the label or otherwise. I think it was made when they had just transferred the acoustics production, but that's just a guess.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 1:27 pm: | |
Ginger, is Rpeletey's number branded on the guitar wood, or is that actually printed on the Concord label?
I ask because I only listed branded numbers parenthetically -- I believe that they're something of a different beast than serial numbers. My 1981 AW-75 *only* has a branded number on the neck block (as you and I discussed once in another thread); there is no serial number on the label, so I left it off this list. I wasn't sure about Hasenobu's 1980 R-400.
With the addition of the V-500 yesterday, I'm clueless about what the alphabetic postfix refers to in these 1981-1984 serials... Maybe it has something to do with body style, although D doesn't mean dreadnought (the V-500 is more of a grand auditorium style or small jumbo).
Best wishes; let's keep the wheels turning. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
That's why I was thinking of D for Daion, T for Tokai and H for Terada.
But what about the J ???
Ginger |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 4:28 am: | |
Don't see where Tokai comes into it Ginger. Go ask on their forum.
http://www.tokaiforum.com/index.php
six |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 8:13 am: | |
Thanks.
Ginger |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 8:46 am: | |
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8520&hig hlight=factory
So:
"Tokai has been an exclusive distributor of Martin guitars from 1972 through 1988. During this period, Tokai had made Sigma and Shenandoah models for Martin, while Tokai sold a lot of Cat's Eyes in Japan. Some engineers from Tokai factory went to Martin factory and learned their engineering. Martin fans in Japan do buy Tokais acoustic guitars with affordable prices even now."
And we find an interesting serial number on the neck block of the (made by Tokai) Sigma D-18 copy:
"815055 on the neckblock; 616848 in the body".
So Tokai was an excellent candidate to build acoustics for Hoshino.
It would explain the use of "T" next to "H" suffixes in Ibanez acoustic serial numbers.
It could also be the REASON, that Terada never used the "T" prefix since 1987. It was already taken by Tokai!
I find Daion a bigger problem, it could be that they closed down too soon...
I'll have to dig deeper for the "D". (and that "J" of course, maybe it means "John's", haha...)
Ginger |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 8:48 am: | |
I seeeee. Nice one.
six |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
So, Ginger, that's an interesting theory. I guess there's no way to be sure the suffix letter is a factory code, but this theory is at least plausible.
If we can find a likely factory for "J", we might be onto something. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 12:58 pm: | |
I know there is a Japanese brand called Jarock (I've got a neck-through-body strat and an ST-105 knock-off made by Jarock), but I have no indication that they EVER built an acoustic flattop.
Then there is a possibility that they used J instead of I. (In the Greek alphabet there is NO difference between I and J, they're both IOTA, and the I can be read as a 1, which is confusing.
I just found out that the master luthier at Iida in Nagoya who inspected the flattops was T. Jamakoshi, as you can read on the label of this Morris:
http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k4000 2648
Ginger |
Ubetcha
Username: Ubetcha
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 1:50 pm: | |
Weird things happen, for sure. Last night a guy comes by the music store that I "work" at....doing tech & minor repairs. Lo & behold he had another NW350 serial 83100801H !! It was identical to the one I already own! I couldn't believe it. This guitar must have gone down the line right next door to mine. No info on where/when bought, unfortunately. Not quite as nice cosmetically, needs tuners & a new saddle, but straight playing & a very solid axe with less fret wear than my mine. The guy was hard up & wanted to sell it, with no case. I got it for $150, can't afford it this month but no I do not feel guilty the guy walked in off the street & I didn't twist his arm. So there's another one for ya, like I need another flattop..hey now I got an NW350 backup, I guess. Still can't believe it. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:06 am: | |
Don't know if it'll help you "number crunchers" in your quest, but I have a Concord 671-12, with s/n K771636 branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red... whatever that means. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:51 am: | |
My impression is that these "old" serial numbers are normally spoken Fuji Gen products, and that they started to use other production facilities on a large scale around 1980. It is possible that incidentally other factories were asked to do something they were good at and that these contractors used "H" for their customer "Hoshino".
The "H" could also indicate "High Tension", because a 12-string need more reinforcement of the neck. Again, just a guess.
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Ubetcha
Username: Ubetcha
Registered: 7-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:52 pm: | |
I could believe it if H meant high-tension. The neck on the NW350 is a true 6-piece laminated maple thing of beauty, with two more pieces on the headstock. An 8-piece assembly! Both of mine are rock solid & as straight & level as the Bonneville Salt Flats. The action on my first one is tuned low & heavy gauge strings buzz badly. I intend to set up the new one with a higher action for heavy strings & for use with a bottleneck. It needs a new saddle, so this will be easy. I think these necks will take it, no problem. High tension indeed. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:18 am: | |
John, how many truss rods are used? One or two?
Ginger |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 8:54 am: | |
Here's another from an ebay auction ( Ebay Item #230155370602):
Ibanez V300BS Acoustic Guitar
Serial Number 860611C1T |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:17 am: | |
Good catch, John. Hmm... That looks like a smudged zero rather than a "C" to me, but it's hard to tell from the pic of the label. Maybe whoever buys it can get a closer look. Nice looking guitar... |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 3:59 pm: | |
It's a ZERO, definitely. Just click on "larger picture".
It still fits in your hypothesis.
Anyway, put it in the list:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
Ginger |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 1:03 am: | |
John, how many truss rods are used? One or two?
Haven't checked it yet, Ginger. I didn't know that they produced any double-trussed. In fact... the only double-trussed instruments I'd ever heard of were Rics. I'll report back when I open her up. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 9:20 am: | |
Jchester, I think Ginger was directing that question to Ubetcha (about the truss rod)...
Are you doing some neck work on your 671/12? Did something happen?
Best wishes. |
Fendouglas
Username: Fendouglas
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Don't know if you want to add this to the list:
Lonestar LE300 86090005T |
Fendouglas
Username: Fendouglas
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
Sorry to post back-2-back but I've just remembered the "Red letter in a circle" (Nearly sounds like a Harry Chapin Song!). I've also got a Concord 693-12; Ser# B770768 and near the label a stamped letter 'Z' in a circle (red) |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 6:36 pm: | |
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]}
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:05 am: | |
The production numbers of the old numbering system are MONTHLY production numbers, so those '77 guitars should be alphabetically ordered first and THEN you may look at the last four digits in THAT month. So it goes like this:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
BTW: this is the solution I have in mind for the D suffix:
http://home.att.net/~daion/index.html
I think the Daion company disappeared somewhere in the early eighties (some say 1983 other say 1985, but it could be that Hoshino took over the plant with its workers to build acoustics.
I was hoping for Acetan to join in, because he has probably the most Lonestars of us all. It wouldn't surprise me if they had D suffixes.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 7:46 pm: | |
Good, Ginger, I agree about the month letter and production sequence in 1977. Seems right. So the 693-12 comes between the other two, as you did it.
So, where are we with the early-80s factory theory? Shall I summarize? This is all conjecture, but it's fun to guess.
D = Daion, I like this conjecture, but we really need some Hoshino-contact confirmation.
H = "high tension" (I'm not buying that).
H = Terada (I think this is more likely).
H = Fuji-gen (maybe possible for '70s serials for Fuji Gen-built acoustics for Hoshino). Who knows...
J = Jarock or Jamakoshi. More need for confirmation.
T = Tokai (also needs confirm). |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:51 pm: | |
NO PRINTED LETTER SUFFIX = Fuji Gen Gakki.
H = Terada (normally spoken, but I'm not sure about the meaning of the separate H stamp with red ink. THAT could have a different meaning). I think it's more likely that this 1977 guitar was built by Fuji-Gen, which was the only manufacturer of Ibanez at that moment, but Hoshino was NOT Fuji-Gen's only customer. By stamping the neck block, the inlay artist knew what brand he had to put in the headstock.
The hypothesis H = Fuji Gen in itself is nonsense. The PRE-fix H can occur on a Fuji-Gen product if it is made in the 8th month i.e. August.
J for Jarock... interesting hypothesis that would give the Jarock brand more status, but I've NEVER seen an acoustic Jarock. But I have two electric Jarocks. Their specialty is setneck and neck-through-body constructions on solidbody electrics and basses.
J for Jamakoshi seems more likely than Jarock...
T for Tokai seems likely too.
D for Daion is possible...
And then there is your day of the month hypothesis...
Ginger |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:32 pm: | |
Are you doing some neck work on your 671/12? Did something happen?
No... I just haven't checked this thread in a while... (all the numbers just make me dizzy)
All is well... she just needs some more saddle shaving. I got impatient & strung her up before I got the saddle right. Sounds amazing, but she's a little tough 'up the neck'. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:32 am: | |
The search for understanding has ultimately come down to some number- (and letter-) crunching.
Anyway, be careful if you do any adjusting of the truss rod, J. I suspect the maple-neck Concords won't have a problem, but the multi-piece mahogany necks from the early '80s seems susceptible to truss rod stripping. |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:24 pm: | |
Thanks for the heads up, Chaz. If anything, I think she may need more relief, after I get the saddle right, so it shouldn't be a problem. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:13 am: | |
While digging for information about that weird CE80xxxx serial number on a neckplate that Melis got with some Performer parts, I found this:
------------------------------------------
"Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 5:28 pm:
Johns, CP = Cort PT factory.2004 / Sept production.
Tommy, 1995,January production.
Mike, your DT is Japan , 1995, January production.
Steinros, your V300 Vintage series is 1987, February production, Tendura factory.
Hope this helps :-)
Captain Ibanez :-)"
----------------------------------------------
It was about a V300 with serial # 87020526T.
So if the Captain is right, the T factory is Tendura and not Tokai. Even if that is the case, the fact that there was another T factory that caused Terada to use the H still stands.
Ginger |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:25 am: | |
Hmmm... the Captain also wrote this:
---------------------------------------------
"Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 6:19 am:
John, the 84 85 etc models etc where actually still the same system from prior to 1984, I strongly beleive that the newer serial number sytem did not take full effect until 1990 but that between you and me. The Sung Eum story will be revealed a bit later....have to do some home work , but I'm glad you find this info useful as I'm sure all at ICW will. The Artstar factory was the Tendura factory and I was hoping that Lt Commander Roadster was going to join the dots here...but he is probably busy in the engine room fiddling with the warp drive :-)
Captain Ibanez :-)"
---------------------------------------------
So it looks like he was confusing the name Terada with Tendura, because the factory that made Artstars in the '80 and '90s was TERADA.
I still think T stands for Tokai.
Ginger |
Spitfire
Username: Spitfire
Registered: 9-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 9:50 pm: | |
hi all,
I would like to add another M310 serial number to the list, Label: 82033166H, Neck Base: 820225. I purchased this one new in Victorville, California in 82 or 83. I believe it has solid maple back and sides (not a laminate) and has always had a wonderful brite rich tone. 25 years later the top has aged nicely. A couple nicks and dings but still a great campfire axe. Only real maintenance was a fret filing and a new nut. Truss rod is very sensitive to adjustment. Have to be careful to maintain moisture/humidity or spruce top flexes and action goes south. I have kept this guitar longer than any thing else in my life. With every new relationship I let it be known that this guitar was here before you and will be here long after your gone. Thanks to all for your information and sharing. |
Brucifer
Username: Brucifer
Registered: 9-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 1:24 am: | |
yet another
label
model# V300MH
serial# 82010821T
and stamped on a brace is #820104
love this guitar! |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 6:36 pm: | |
The list grows! Thanks for the new info!:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 2:56 am: | |
The list grows! :-) Thanks for the new info!:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
87020526T [Steinros's V300]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
The added '87 V300 is the first in the list. That's interesting because 1987 is a key year when it comes to the electric serial numbering system. From this entrance we see: system stays the same and the manufacturer of the '87 V300 is the same as the V302 manufacturer in 1981 and 1982 and the V282 and V300 manufacturer in 1986. But in 1983 we see that Caddy Jim's V310 was produced in the H factory (Terada?). Between 1982 and 1986 we see no T serial numbers AT ALL (until now). On the contrary, in 1983 we see that the "H" factory (Terada?) becomes more important for the acoustics production. And in 1984 the D factory (Daion?) is added to the existing production facilities. In 1986 the H factory (Terada?) stops making the acoustics for Hoshino... Why? Of course: they had to take over the semi-acoustic production of Fuji Gen, that was going to play a major role in the Fender production (Fender Japan that is, and the owner of Greco, Kanda Shokai, was and is one of the 3 shareholders in Fender Japan). It all fits.
More input is always welcome. You're all invited!
Ginger |
Brucifer
Username: Brucifer
Registered: 9-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 3:33 pm: | |
my new v300tv
Label
Model#V300TV
Serial#81081238H
Branded on base of neck
810619 |
Talajuha
Username: Talajuha
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
This was for sale in Finland, probably sold for 275 to 300 EUR, that I thought was too much.
V300BS, 87010732 T
Juha |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:12 pm: | |
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81081238H [Brucifer's V300TV](810619 branded on base of neck)
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
87010732T [for-sale-in-Finland V300BS]
87020526T [Steinros's V300]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Ulf55
Username: Ulf55
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 1:34 pm: | |
For sale in Sweden.
Itīs a Lonestar LS380 from 1984 and the serial # is 84097728H.
Itīs very good looking and I am a bit tempted but...
My 1977 Artist 2609 has # D770336 if that is of any interest.
...Ulf |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 6:06 am: | |
About that D77xxxx
Interesting yes, but of interest in this context... hmmm... it's the old serial number system, and we put them before the new serial number to find the month when the old system stopped and the new system started, so what would be of interest would be anything between K77xxxx and 802100. Right now there's a big hole of THIRTEEN MONTHS (L77xxxx-80xxxx).
I'll copy the list and fit them in:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
D770336 [Ulf55's Artist 2609]
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81081238H [Brucifer's V300TV](810619 branded on base of neck)
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
84097728H [LS380 for sale in Sweden October 2007]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
87010732T [for-sale-in-Finland V300BS]
87020526T [Steinros's V300]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
Ginger |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 6:08 am: | |
BTW, that hole is at least 25 months big, not 13.
Ginger |
Ulf55
Username: Ulf55
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Hello again.
This PF400 (also for sale in Sweden) will narrow the gap a bit.
# L784715
...Ulf |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 5:51 am: | |
Allright!
Ginger |
Ulf55
Username: Ulf55
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 9:19 am: | |
When reading threads here at ICW the following serial # could be seen in pictures.
Studio ? - G794925
ST100 - B797650
ST200 - B796327
ST105 - G796404 (ebay)
...Ulf |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 9:50 am: | |
Ulf:
Are these serial numbers that you are reporting for electric guitars or acoustic? This thread is trying to track acoustic serial numbers only. |
Ulf55
Username: Ulf55
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 5:05 am: | |
Sorry Johns, I missed that.
The Musicians are of course electric.
...Ulf |
Azztravert
Username: Azztravert
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hi all! i'm wrapped to find some like minded Ibanez freaks,, i would love to add my M310 to the list, so here goes! sn- 82050973H and the number on the base of the neck is, 820330. This baby has been the only true companion to me for over ten years, and she still sings like an angel.
Congratulations to all fellow M310 owners! |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:36 am: | |
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
D770336 [Ulf55's Artist 2609]
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81081238H [Brucifer's V300TV](810619 branded on base of neck)
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82050973H [Azztravert's M310 (820330) branded on neck)}
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
84097728H [LS380 for sale in Sweden October 2007]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
87010732T [for-sale-in-Finland V300BS]
87020526T [Steinros's V300]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700]
Hey Azztravert, did you see that? Your guitar is 3 numbers later and your guitar's neck is one number earlier than Rankmanugly's.
Of course I left the electric PF400 and the Studios out. They follow the common electrics serial numbering, in which the breaking point is 86/87. The breaking point for acoustics lies much earlier: before 1981 or even before 1980 (I don't know yet if these Ragtimes take a special position. I would like to see acoustics serial numbers of 1978, 1979 and 1980 (also different models than Ragtime series). Now that would close the gap.
Ginger |
Azztravert
Username: Azztravert
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:22 pm: | |
Yeah! i did see that, it amazes me that two bits of wood, probably crafted by the same hands, can end up in any part of the world.
Where in the world is Rankmanugly? I'm in Aussie land! |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:38 pm: | |
So is he. Left-click on user name and read properties and you see his e-mail address.
Ginger |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 7:44 pm: | |
Welcome, Azztravert! Hope you like your M310. I like mine, but I find I'm not playing it much recently. They are really nice looking guitars though, eh? |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:00 am: | |
Added Teestodd's V320:
A771877 [Rpeletey's Concord 671]
B770768 [Fendouglas' Concord 693-12] (red "Z" stamped in a circle)
D770336 [Ulf55's Artist 2609]
K771636 [JChester's Concord 671-12] (branded into the neck block in black & a 'circled H' branded above it in red)
802100 [nfairbrother's R-400 (on eBay)]
802103 [Hasenobu's R-400]
81060986H [Teestodd's V320](810506 branded on neck)
81081238H [Brucifer's V300TV](810619 branded on neck)
81090213J [JohnS's M340TV]
81101002T [Erich's pic of a V302CW](811005 branded on back brace)
82010821T [Brucifer's V300MH](820104 branded on brace)
82010964T [Erichbtoholic's friend's V302]
82030194D [freehand300's V-500 jumbo on eBay]
82033161H [Chazmo's M310](820222 branded on base of neck)
82033166H [Spitfire's M310](820225 branded on base of neck)
82050970H [Rankmanugly's M310](820331 branded on neck)
82050973H [Azztravert's M310](820330 branded on neck)
82090510T [Erichbtoholic's V302](820938 branded on back brace)
83010633H [JohnS's NW40](821201 branded on neck)
83010655H [Asb2's NW40]
83011281H [M310 eBay auction 290132292613]
83061540H [CaddyJim's V310]
83081513H [Albatross's NW350]
83100801H [Ubetcha's 2nd NW350]
83100806H [Ubetcha's NW350]
84070068D [Ja500's JA-500]
84070070D [Eagleman's JA-500]
84097728H [LS380 for sale in Sweden October 2007]
85100652D [Jenniferthorstad's LS-500BK]
86020723T [Bushy's V282]
86061101T [honestabemusic's V300BS]
86090005T [Fendouglas's LE300]
86091004D [Cheechaco's LS550]
87010732T [for-sale-in-Finland V300BS]
87020526T [Steinros's V300]
92040042T [Artfield's AE700] |
Fendouglas
Username: Fendouglas
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 2:34 am: | |
OOps! Wrong info on the 647-12 I mentioend on the other thread, the Ser No is> N-G770901 |