Maple body 12 string acoustic?

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Author Message   Rick Sam Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:57 am:    Dan Fogelberg appears to be using a Ibanez 12 string maple body acoustic. Does anyone know what model this is or if it is still available?   JohnS Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:57 am:    Rick: Anyplace where we could see pictures of this guitar? I cruised around the web looking for Dan Fogelberg websites and the only guitars I see him with look like Martins.   Mary Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 10:57 am:    I have a 12 string Ibanez maple body quitar model V302. I bought it in 1980. It's a great sounding guitar. I've never played anything that sounded close.   Jerry_S (Jerry_S) Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:03 am:    Ditto Mary -- I have a beautiful flame maple 12 string acoustic with abalone binding. Model M312 -- circa 1982. Super clear bright sound & plays like butter. I get compliments on it all of the time. Never seen another like mine, but a frind has a slightly plainer one without the flame -- both great guitars   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 1:32 pm:    Hi folks, Maple bodies are yummy. But, man, you haven't lived until you've played mahogany. j/k I just love my 1981 AW-75. It's spruce on the top and mahogany top and sides. This guitar is a real gem. I just thought I'd pimp a picture of it. Enjoy! (I'd love to see pix of your maple bodies...) /image{1981 Ibanez Artwood AW-75 12-string}   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 1:34 pm:    Let's try that again...   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 5:03 pm:    Here's my 671-12   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 9:06 am:    Gorgeous, Jchester! Looks brand new. Do you know the year? I found the following page in the 1976 catalog for you: http://www.break-even.org/ibzscans/1976KALA2/flat- 5.jpg   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 9:57 am:    It's a K77xxxx (Nov. '77). The pix are flattering at best. Those extra dark spots on the fretboard are where the strings have worn through the finish & into the wood. There are lots of chips & dings, front & back, that don't show in pix. The surface layer of the dark, center section of the back is also seperating. But... she's a grand old broad & I love her dearly. Big, full, rich, & LOUD. I even bought her some new jewelry...   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:50 am:    Oh, wow! I saw the discoloring and figured it was just the natural maple wood imperfections. Maybe maple isn't the best material for fretboards, but I'm sure you can fill those in (probably should). I LOVE the fancy-shmancy tuners. What are they? Hey, as for the separation... Are you keeping the guitar humidified? I had bridge separation and some cracks by down the back by the neck that I had to repair becuase I was a bonehead and didn't store my guitar properly. Here in Massachusetts, we get get winters with outrageously low humidity. I learned my lesson. Yeah, that's interesting that you mentioned loud. My dreadnaught (which I think is the same shape as yours) has serious punch. I love it to death. One of my favorite purchases of my life.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 1:52 am:    Actually, maple is one the hardest woods available. But after 30 years of serious playing, the clear lacquer is worn through & it really shows on lighter colored wood. It's the same on my 2451nt (L6S copy) electric. I'll probably attempt cleaning & filling the fingerboard divots & a few others, on both of them, with some lacquer tips I got from another member here, about restoring my 2681. The schmancy tuners are Grover locking minis. They aren't historically correct for this guitar but the old ones were crap & these work well & hold tuning very well (a major plus for a 12). I'm not that worried about really restoring this old gal. She's my buddy. I leave it by my desk & use it a lot for arranging & just bangin' away at it, when necessary. I don't know... the separation was there when I got it a couple months ago, so I don't know how it was kept. Dreadnaughts are designed to project but any acoustic guitar with maple back & sides is going to be louder & a bit brighter than an identical one with mahogany or rosewood, due to the reflective nature of maple. Not quite as warm or rich but definitely louder. The brighter aspect also works particularly well with the 'shimmery' quality of a 12-string's high octave strings.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 10:03 am:    Nice! The Grover tuners look great! You're probably right about the maple just showing the wear more, Jchester. I know on my rosewood fretboard I wouldn't be able to tell one way or the other... Though, honestly, I'm not sure there's any laquer to actually wear through, and I haven't played it enough over the years to cause wear. So, I don't know about the climate in your office, but I highly recommend humidification. I keep kicking myself for the cracking that I had to repair on mine; it could've been prevented. Best wishes. Rock on, maple brothers/sisters!   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 5:39 am:    I many flattop steel string guitars, none of them are Ibanez BTW, but several of them are high end. Only one of them is stained maple with a solid Sitka spruce top (a second hand Korean Cort Earth 100F, which is ideal for sessions in places where you expect small damages). Maple is pretty bright. Then I have 3 solid mahogany back and sides guitars, all with spruce tops too: a Lakewood D-8, a Guild D-4HG and a Gallagher Doc Watson. The Doc Watson was made of AFRICAN MAHOGANY, which gives much more bass than normal Honduras mahogany. This is the only mahogany that can beat solid rosewood. My Doc Watson beats a Santa Cruz. Then I have 2 solid Indian rosewood flattops: a MIJ Bozo B-100 and a smaller Lakewood M-32. Principally Rio goes over Indian rosewood, Indian rosewood goes over mahogany and mahogany goes over maple. The position of African mahogany is a bit difficult to say, because I have only one example. In the future it will become more and more difficult to get these tropical hard woods. Robert Godin (Seagull, Simon and Patrick, Norman) and Maton are working with ecological alternatives like Wild Cherry and Queensland Maple and Walnut. Their results are pretty good, but not as good as the real thing. Ginger   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 9:51 am:    Hi again, Ginger, Hey, what is "Rio?" I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "goes over," but if you're referring to tonal quality, please elaborate. If, OTOH, you mean "better" then I think you're in subjective territory. I know I've played a number of rosewood-bodied 12-strings that do not sing -- to me, anyway -- the way my AW-75 does, which has a mahogany body. After looking at Jchester's 671-12, I'm dying to try it. His maple body has a spruce top and that dreadnaught shape, exactly like my AW-75, which would make for a cool comparison. Plus, these are well-aged guitars (unfortunately, like me! ). Y'know, it may well be that 12-strings have different value criteria than their 6-string counterparts. Manufacturers always list families together in their catalogs and base the pricing on the model line and of course the wood. But, until you cozy up with a 12-string you really don't know whether you'll like it compared to it's 6-string brothers/sisters/cousins.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 5:52 pm:    It's a type of Brasilian rosewood (after Rio de Janeiro). When I say "rosewood goes over mahogany" I mean that it beats the mahogany in VOLUME. I was thinking this afternoon about the same difference you are referring at, and realized that the BEST 12-string is a Guild made of solid maple. The bright overtones of the .008 or even .007 strings on a twelve string will probably be heard BETTER on a solid MAPLE guitar, because the basses are less heavily sounding than on rosewood. I have one 12-string MIJ Bozo (laminated rosewood), and the GUILD was the best I ever had in my hands, but it was so expensive... Now I know why: it's the best you can get. (It was pre-Fender) Ginger   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 11:51 pm:    The bright overtones of the .008 or even .007 strings on a twelve string will probably be heard BETTER on a solid MAPLE guitar My thoughts exactly, Ginger. I once (early 70s) tried out a Guild F-50-12. Solid spruce top, maple back & sides JUMBO body. OMG! Loud, sweet, pure & with better action than most electrics! It was $2,000 THEN! That's been my benchmark ever since that day. btw... the stains in my pants did eventually come out.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 8:28 am:    You folks might like this (wish I had friends at the Guild factory ).: Exceprt from Lisa Sharken of Vintage Guitar Magazine interviewing Richie Sambora (from Bon Jovi) [ http://www.vintageguitar.com/artists/details.asp?I D=149 ]: Q: Hearing “Dead Or Alive” inspired me to buy a 12-string, and I’m sure it inspired other guitar players in the same way. It definitely did bring acoustic guitar into the forefront of rock music. A: Cool! That’s exactly what I wanted to do. At that time, I had my two guitar tones with two guitars and one amp. That was about all that I owned. I had a couple of cool acoustics and that particular guitar sound was recorded with a big old Guild F-50 12-string that was a factory second I picked out at the Guild factory. I had a friend who knew someone at the Guild factory and they were nice enough to let me go up to the factory and pick out a six-string and a 12-string. They were both factory seconds due to things like finish flaws. I didn’t really do a good job of picking out the six-string because it never recorded well. But that 12-string was a killer. It sounded so good, although it was a bit hard to play. The tone was really bright. We recorded that song at Little Mountain Sound in Vancouver. It was one of the side rooms with a stone wall, and I kept the climate very cool so the brights were very tingly. The guitar was a bright, well-bodied instrument, so it recorded phenomenally. But my quest was to bring the acoustic guitar into rock because it had a lot of dignity and it added integrity to songs.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 9:36 pm:    Sigh, look at this lovely M-342. Such a shame to see a guitar that some fool would take a sander to. This guitar is probably repairable, but still... ouch. Ebay Item #130116170402   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 12:34 am:    Ouch indeed! Beautiful flames, on the back & sides! Odd duck though... modern headstock but those crappy old tuners. But I can't imagine someone actually attacking it with a belt sander. Looks, to me, more like 'Richie Havens Syndrome'... extremely aggressive pick strumming but, in this case, inflicted on it by a lefty... or a total spaz righty.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 9:19 am:    I never thought of that! You might be right -- that could be from lefty picking. Maybe with a metal pick... Pretty narly. So, hey, Jchester, are you enjoying your 671-12? I'm continuously on the lookout for a maple after seeing yours and some of the others around here. Unfortunately, I've depleted my bank account recently on a Taylor, so I can't spend much.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 12:52 am:    Yeah... maybe a saw blade for a pick. My 671-12 is my buddy! She lives here, in the kitchen, near my desk (very large kitchen), so I can just pick her up & noodle when the mood strikes. I've found that it's really cleaned up my picking. Playing stuff that requires accurate pick work ("Norweigian Wood", for example), on a narrow-necked 12-string, makes it seem sooooooooo easy, when you go back to a 6-string. Funny you should mention Taylor... I went into my favorite music store, about a year ago, fully expecting to buy a Taylor or Laravee or something else in their price range, but after playing them ALL, I walked out with an Ibanez EP-9, after leaving only $1100.00 behind! I guess I got one of the earlier ones, 'cause they've been taking a beating, lately, over QC issues. Mine's been awesome!   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 12:59 pm:    There was a 670-12 (single flamed-maple back, not the tri-wood back you have) for sale on eBay a couple of weeks ago but it didn't sell. I contacted the seller after the auction, and he was going to try to sell it locally. We'll see, I may yet try to grab it. There's a 699-12 for sale right now, which is really nice. Still, I like the 671 best! Rock on, Jchester!   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, June 04, 2007 - 11:09 pm:    Keep hunting, Chaz... you'll find one. If I see anything, I'll post here immediately... if not sooner.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 9:05 am:    Chaz: Is this the 670-12 that you referring to earlier? Ebay Item #270126322699 Right now, the bids are very far from the BIN.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2007 - 11:35 am:    Pretty guitar & a nice case! "Right now, the bids are very far from the BIN." I'm guessing that they're pretty far from reserve too.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2007 - 8:06 pm:    I did indeed see that, and I bid on it, but it was under reserve and I wasn't going to push it up high (I think the seller was looking for too much). We'll see. I've got something else in the works. Hope to report back to you guys later this week. [was that enigmatic enough for you? ]   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2007 - 9:54 pm:    Well, I was hoping to have something fun to say, but I got sniped out of two nice maple Concords today. I'm pretty pissed, and I'm sick of eBay. Anyway, best wishes, folks. I'm sure something will come up one of these days. I'm going to contact a seller from a few weeks ago who didn't sell... He had a 671-12, just like jchester's.   Chazmo Username: Chazmo Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 11:10 am:    So, guys, I didn't get a Concord after all, but I bought a 1982 M310! The 1980s-era M series guitars had a mahogany neck rather than rock maple, so that's a big difference from the Concord. I guess that had something to do with the Gibson lawsuit. But hey I love mahogany too. I'll post some pix in a new thread when I get the guitar.

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