Ric Clones Model 2388/B

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Author Message   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 5:05 pm:    I'm interested in obtaining the Ibanez Model 2388 and 2388B Rickenbacker clones but I've heard horror stories that the Rickenbacker lawyers are one step removed from the boogeyman. I've heard that the Rickenbacker legal staff is rather aggressive in preventing the sale/transfer of copies of their guitars. Does anyone know the limitations of their powers in the USA? Can I be arrested/jailed for purchasing Ric copies? Assuming, that is, I could find someone to purchase them from. Thanks.   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 7:17 pm:    There was a Cimar clone on the bay yesterday, but I can't find it today.   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 1:36 am:    Found it: Ebay Item #260191062812   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 7:10 am:    This is plainly having the effect that John Hall, CEO of Rickenbacker wants it to have. No - you can't be prosecuted for owning or trading a vintage copy - in actual fact, it's quite doubtful that Rickenbacker has any legal right, or actual power, to do anything to prevent their sale. It's actually a fairly complex situation on one level, because what Rickenbacker are doing is protecting their trademark designs, which they have to do under US law, in order to maintain ownership of the designs. This means they have to pursue current infringements (mostly Chinese-made copies these days) and in order to do this without challenge, they have to effectively sweep vintage copies under the carpet - to hide their existence. When these copies were built, Rickenbacker had no design registrations - because, according to John Hall, the facility to do so wasn't available. Rickenbacker's design trademarks were only registered a few years ago. These days, Ebay is where most used instruments are bought & sold, and it's highly visible. Ebay has increasingly strict policies about trademark & copyright issues, so it's quite easy to have an auction removed for trademark/copyright violation. Rickenbacker don't remove these auctions themselves - they don't need to, most are reported by Rickenbacker.com & Rickresource.com forum members. However, what this does mean is that it's really difficult to obtain a Rick copy, and the prices of these things, when they are available, are driven artificially high as a result. I should say at this point that despite the frustration this causes to a certain breed of guitar enthusiast - I do fully support John Hall's stance on this. Rickenbacker still manage to survive & flourish in today's marketplace, without compromising their craftsmanship or integrity, their guitars remain unique and high-quality. Hall has refused to take the option of licensing his designs to overseas factories, despite how much easier & more profitable it would be. Anyway - that Cimar. It's not a 2388b, it's actually a Cimar model 1949, and it's in this catalogue from 1975: http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/1975_cimar.pdf It's not much like a "proper" 2388b, either - it should have Gibson-style pickups, checked binding & full-width sparkly inlays. I'd doubt that this copy is a Fujigen - it's a lot more like the ones marketed in the UK as Shaftesbury, which I'm inclined to think came from Maya/Rokkoman - which is interesting in itself, suggesting that Hoshino sourced from factories other than Fujigen. It differs from the later & more accurate 2389b in having a toaster pickup & small generic Japanese tuners. The 2389b also retained the checked binding of the 2388b. Jon.   Thesilentdawn Username: Thesilentdawn Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 9:32 am:    I don't have any issue with John Hall protecting his trademark. I do have an issue with Rickenbacker refusing to create a 360 model with a decent neck though. They sound so good but they're horrible to play   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 10:13 am:    Thanks, guys. - Pete   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 9:13 pm:    Ebay Item #130182029455 This one should be up for about twenty minutes: -Chuck   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 9:35 pm:    Thanks, Chuck. Forgive my ignorance all but would someone please translate the listing into English for me? Thanks, - Pete   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 9:49 pm:    http://babelfish.altavista.com - Legendary Ibanez bass "Rickenbacker 4001" (Ibanez reproduction - larva in Japan) from the 70's. RARE PIECE! The Ibanez Bassgitarre is in a Top condition - 30 years one did not use. Hardly customs traces. Lacquer and metal parts okay - all original. As accessories participates a suit-case. Private sales - therefore no cancelling or guarantee! Dispatch takes place as insured package. You get the gist.   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 9:56 pm:    Ebay Item #120194618593 "Have another and another..."   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 11:30 pm:    Chuck - Thanks again (and again). I'd never heard of the Bablefish site before. The 2388B in Germany looks to be the better of the two. I've asked what S&H would be to the US but I think it's going to be painful. Thanks, - Pete   Harry Username: Harry Registered: 3-2001 Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 3:50 am:    BIN of $1000 for a bolt-on neck Ricky copy? I'll think I'll have a chat with my insurance agent (again...) My collection of 120 Ibanezses from the seventies' periode is rapidly getting of too much value to just have them hanging in my house.... I think I will have to find me some kind of "Fort Knox" in the near future. Seriously: it's getting more and more unclear what is (or is not) a reasonable asking price vs. the actual value of the Ibanez guitars and basses from the copy era. Things are getting seriously out of control here, if you ask me. Harry   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 7:49 am:    Pete - both of these are bolt-neck 2389b, not 2388b. The crazy prices for these basses is as much to do with their scarcity as their Ibanez-ness - I've seen rubbish like Hondo go for frankly ridiculous amounts. Jon.   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 11:26 am:    Jon - What's the difference between the 2388B and 2389B? I saw them both in the catalogs but couldn't really see any difference other than the woods/finishes used. I just assumed the 2389B was the natural finish and the 2388B was the MR finish. I thought the guy from Brooklyn was dreaming a bit. No case, missing finger rest, and kind of beat up. Thanks, - Pete   Tbplayer Username: Tbplayer Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 12:02 pm:    harry, i saw a bolt rick copy, at the columbus, ohio, summer show for 650.00 there was an aria there also for 550.00. there is a winter show in jan '08. tb   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 12:32 am:    I went through the catalogs again and it looks like the 2389B is the Stereo version of the 2388B. Is that true? If so, what are the visual clues that differentiate the two models? Thanks, - Pete   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 9:04 am:    Pete - lots of differences! The main one is the pickups - the 2389b (which I assume to be a later update) is accurate to the original Rickenbacker, in having single-coil pickups & a full-width chrome bridge pickup surround & cover. In its neck-through variety (2389b DX) it's pretty convincing Rickenbacker copy. On the other hand, the 2388b, which I think appeared from '71 or '72 is quite inaccurate - it has humbuckers & a small chrome bridge pickup surround & cover. The neck-through version has a big square Gibson-type "mudbucker" in its neck position. Bruce Foxton played one of these when he was in The Jam - apparently because he wanted the look of a Rick & the sound of an EB-3. Anyway, there are trim & finish differences between the 2388 & 2389 models - most obvious being the full-width sparkly inlays on the earlier bass - this and the checked body binding were copied from the 60s & early 70s Rickenbacker 4001. http://www.sorted-uk.org/other/mareksibanez/marek2 .jpg The one in this pic is a 2388b/DX, it's missing the chrome cover over the bridge pup but is otherwise stock. As far as the stereo issue is concerned, I assume the 2389b, being a more accurate copy, included this feature as part of the "update". Although oddly, this 1976 catalogue shows the neck-through, mono (I think), humbucker pickup'd version labelled as a 2389b, not a 2388b/DX, as in previous catalogues: http://www.ibanez.ru/info/file.php?n=1976-1&p=&y=1 976 Although given the Ibanez propensity for using the same photos year upon year, regardless of any changes in the actual instruments, it's not necesarily representative of what was actually sold in the shops! Jon.   Peterdryan Username: Peterdryan Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 9:09 am:    Thanks, Jon. I really appreciate the info. - Pete

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