L5 CES copy photos

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Author Message Frootful Username: Frootful Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 7:21 am:    Here's some shots of my newly acquired 2460. I think it dates to pre 1975 due to the lack of serial no. on the back of headstock or label inside the guitar. Just wondering if anyone can help refine its' date with these shots of the pickups and the serial no. Are they early super 70s? (The gold plating has rubbed off on the pickups and tail piece...) The rest of the guitar is in near immaculate condition, especially considering it's age. All parts are 100% original. How much should I insure it for? cheers! nick. Harry Username: Harry Registered: 03-2001 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 1:19 pm:    Hi Nick This is indeed the model 2460 and if there is no serial number stamped in the back of the headstock than this guitar dates from early 1975. (As far as I have discovered production started early 1975 and from august 1975 on Ibanez guitars had serial numbers). So you have one of the first ever to appear. The pickups can be considered as early Super Seventies (later on this was engraved in the bottom plate of the pickup). You have a great valuable guitar here in fabulous condition. I'd ensure it for 2500 dollars at least. Kind greetings, Harry Frootful Username: Frootful Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 4:48 pm:    thanks Harry, yowzahs. I paid £850 for it here in the UK ($1400?). I better insure it pretty quick then... I'm not a big collector and bought it to play; it's now one of my 4 guitars, of which I need to sell one to help cover the cost. I'm now a little concerned about gigging with this one. Better get a good case for it too! Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 11:51 pm:    Great buy and a fantastic example too. six Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 7:45 am:    I can't agree immediately on this being a 2460. But perhaps someone can convince me. According to the Argus priceguide from Switzerland it's more likely to be a 2455. Why? The 2460 has 1 humbucker, the 2455 has 2. The 2460 production started 1976, the 2455 production started 1975. This L-5 CES type guitar has 2 humbuckers and a Gibson open book shaped headstock. Are there any 2460s known with an open book headstock? I'm not so sure. What other clues do we have? No inside label? Price levels in Argus priceguide: 2455: €1370,= 2460: €1290,= So about $1750,= seems enough for now. Argus isn't cheap, you know. G. Bigmike Username: Bigmike Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:52 am:    Gemberbier, Being you are a newly registered member here I assume you don't know the collectors pedigrees of the above posters and will refrain from flaming you - Argus price guides, Bluebooks and other "guides" to instruments might be good for a store that wants to lowball a private seller trying to sell the instrument directly to them (the old Retail mantra of "buy wholesale, sell retail applies" in these transactions) but sadly they are very out of touch with the current realities of Ibanez collecting. I don't know how long you have been "collecting" instruments or your reasons for resurecting this thread but both SixSix and HARRY are seasoned Ibanez collectors with vast and varied collections (HARRY has his own Ibanez collectors website) who are much more with it on the current values of instruments than any printed or online "guide" will ever be. Why not sit back, read some threads for a while and get to know the people/players/posters here. Not only will you meet some great people, learn vast data on Ibanez instruments but you will also notice that the days of low priced vintage Ibanez classics like the 70s 2460 are soon to be long gone. These guitars are now getting the respect AND prices they deserve. BigMike Harry Username: Harry Registered: 03-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:42 pm:    Gemberbier The guitar IS a 2460. And I really don't know how the mentioned price guide got the knowledge that the model 2460 has only one pickup....it really has two! And you're wrong (or the guide is...again) about the start of the production: the model number 2460 is in my archive without serial number and with the "correct" open book headstock, so production must have started in the first half of 1975. Here's the picture: For the rest: the 2455 has a sharp cutaway, the 2460 has a rounded one, like it shows in the picture above. When it comes to prices: both jazzboxes sometimes go for nearly double the price that's mentioned in that guide of yours. Prices for 70's Ibanez copies are raising rapidly!!! Kind greetz, Harry Pitviper Username: Pitviper Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 5:07 pm:    *PANG Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 10:14 pm:    Well Bigmike, I know Sixvsix' name from Smooth's 2355 website. He owns the same guitar type I have: a flamed maple 2355m, except for the missing pickguard. Harry I don't know yet. What I know, is that I received two e-mails today of a certain Harold Wherry, who offered me for $1800,= plus $235,= shipping costs an Ibanez 2461 "Johnny Smith" with two floating pickups and one replaced tuner, which is on the (I know, I know) Argus list for € 1550,= (about $1860,= so Argus is not lowballing here!)and for $2300,= plus $240 shipping costs,= an expensive natural Destroyer bass (but I'm not into hardrock), which is presented as a korina finish model, but looks more like natural swamp ash to me. The most expensive Destroyer GUITARS in the Argus list cost a lot less ($ 1180,= for a 1983-‘85 limited edition), and I don't know if a bass is worth the double. I know Ibanez makes very nice light basses, like my old Roadstar II, but the older ones are heavy logs of wood that give you a hernia. Earl Hope of The Blues Connection (Germany) was relieved, when I let him play mine instead of his older Roadster. In my memory I still see him kissing it on the stage at the Light Town Jazz Festival in Eindhoven. And believe me, it wasn't that expensive. These were good budget imitations of the Fender Precision Bass and their collectors price is what we make of it. Comparing USA prices to European prices doesn't work for Asian guitars, it even doesn't for new instruments. Because of American protectionism USA citizens pay almost twice the price we pay in Europe for new Asian instruments. It's simply not interesting for a European collector to buy an Asian instrument in the USA, because the American owner paid so much tax as he bought it new. What I know is that American jazz guitarists are sometimes willing to trade their Gibson jazz box for one or two Japanese vintage jazz boxes if in mint condition. And only if they know the owner from the stage. It's mostly because they tried the guitar and like the sound of it and because they are good value in the States. Selling Japanese top jazz boxes for cash is not easy in Holland. There are not so many jazz players here. What I often see, is that the prices owners actually get for their jazz boxes are much lower than the prices of simple 70's Fender Telecasters. And in the old days you didn't have to be a luthier to build those, they were mounted by low educated workers, like Ford cars. In my opinion these prices are not fair. It's something we create ourselves. A professionally built jazz box should cost more than a bolt-on plank, because it costs more skill and time to make it. It's more exclusive and not a mass product. But because of the myths, traders and collectors create around our Telecaster example, people are willing to pay more for it than for a carved solid top Ibanez or Yamaha! It has also something to do with the money you can make in a cover band, playing a tele or strat, compared to the money you can make in the jazz circuit. Jazz musicians mostly play for the fun, often without asking any money. Free beers perhaps. Sharp cutaway on a 2455? Like on a 2355? Possible, but then Argus would be mistaking again in its description: "L-5 CES 2 HB". With a sharp cutaway and spruce top it's more an L-4 CES except for the body size. It's very well possible that the Argus list sucks. You all seem to think their prices are too low. I think they're pretty high measured to European standards. In Holland, Belgium and Germany we don't pay these prices for Japanese guitars. They're over the top. And I wonder if an insurance company will actually pay the USA value for a guitar in Europe, Would a European guy buy a replacement for his Ibby in the States? Why? Only the shipping costs $235,= ! Another matter is, would I sell my 2355m in mint condition with OHSC for €1670,=? Guess not! But that's based on emotion, not on calculation!

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