Rick copy..What is it worth

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Author Message   Krdavis Username: Krdavis Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 5:50 pm:    I posted earlier but I'll start a new thread. I have a Rick copy with bolt on neck, natural color with binding. It was nade in April 1977 S/N D770862 Can anyone tell me what it might be worth? I tried ebay with what I thought was a good ad, but ebay pulled it anyway. Thanks, Kevin   Harry Username: Harry Registered: 03-2001 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 8:53 am:    Hi Kevin If your Rick is in original and good condition the value may vary between $350 and $450. The bolt on Ibanez Rick models are far less popular than those with set necks or even with neck-through-body construction. Kind greetz, Harry   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:11 pm:    Hi Kevin - what country are you in? I did post on your other thread but it bears repeating: In the UK, a Rick bass copy (doesn't need to be an Ibanez) which manages to last the course of an Ebay auction can fetch up to £500 - that's over $900 US. It seems Rickenbacker's efforts to prevent the sale of these old copies is simply making them more desirable, valuable & sought-after. But I'm sure they know what they're doing. If you mention "Rickenbacker" at all in an Ebay ad, if it gets reported it will get pulled. Rickenbacker have a very hard line (read: zero tolerance) attitude towards the sale of vintage copies, and will have any such auction removed if it comes to their attention. All elements of the 4001 design are copyrighted so the only way an auction will run to completion will be if it doesn't get noticed. I'm actually in email correspondence with Rickenbacker CEO John Hall about this, and I hope he'll be able to clarify the situation & maybe be persuaded to compromise a little about the trade in vintage copies. I fully understand & support Rickenbacker's efforts to come down hard on manufacturing & selling counterfeits, but taking the same approach to vintage instruments is both illogical & counterproductive. At the moment, in the UK, it doesn't make any difference what the brand is, what the construction method is - these things attract crazy bids & sell for a lot if the auction's allowed to finish. Jon.   Krdavis Username: Krdavis Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:44 pm:    Thank you for that. Ebay did pull my ad. The title went like this...Book about Eddie Rickenbacker, free Ibanez bass. Even though technically I wasn't selling the bass, they still had ebay stop it. How in the hell can they do that???? Rickenbacker has yet to answer the email I sent.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 1:23 am:    DON'T use the words "Rickenbacker" or "Ric" ANYWHERE in the ad! Both are copyrighted & plugged into their search criteria... as are "4001" & "4003" You'll probably get much farther along, listing it as a "Classic Ibanez Replica Bass". Sometimes you can get past their searches by calling it a "Rick". The "K" at the end fouls them up because it's such a common male first name. It's all about the red flags, man.   Destroyer Username: Destroyer Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, November 20, 2006 - 8:46 am:    My favorite endlessly fascinating subject! What the Prickenbacker crew does to the average joe is criminal! Sure, go after the copy manufacturers, I'm with ya 100%, but leave us little guys alone! Check out this thread fron the Univox forum:http://forums.univox.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1128   Partsman Username: Partsman Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 2:37 am:    I have a RIFF brand set neck Rickenbacker 330 copy that I've tried to sell on ebay twice, and both times it was pulled, the first time, about 2yrs ago, I used Rickenbacker's name, but the second time, about 2 weeks ago, I only used "330" and it still got pulled. I guess I'll probably hang on to her awhile longer since all the talk about them lately, I see a steady rise in value, and if they do allow vintgage re-pros to be sold, you'll see her on ebay!! Mark C.   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:10 pm:    Very pretty Rickalike - looks recent to me... Anyway - Rick have copyright on all elements of their instruments' designs, and according to John Hall, if they want to make sure they keep the copyright (under US law), it seems they are legally obliged to take action any time they become aware of an infringement, otherwise they risk losing ownership of the copyright/trade mark. So you don't need to say Rickenbacker at all, or mention any of their brands or model numbers - simply being visible is enough to get your auction pulled. Apparently their copyrights are so tight, that when Charvel's Surfcaster guitar design incorporated a similar "cat eye" soundhole, they actually had to license it through Rickenbacker or face litigation. Jon.   Partsman Username: Partsman Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 12:22 pm:    Jon, would you happen to know when Rickenbacker stopped the production of copies? or have any idea what year my Riff may be?I think someone said you could buy them through JC Penny's catalog at one time... Mark   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Saturday, January 13, 2007 - 8:32 pm:    Hi Mark - Rick have never managed to stop copies being made - but they've largely managed to keep them out of their main markets. Greco/Fuji Gen were still making 4001/4003 copies in the 90s for the Japanese domestic market, and might well still be doing so. The occasional copy pops up from time to time - Rick took legal action against the distributor of Jay Turser brand guitars in the US, after they introduced a 325 copy, while in the UK, Indie Guitars currently have a 330 (looks identical to yours) and a frankly awful 4001 knockoff. Wesley Guitars, also in the UK, do a very nice & remarkably inexpensive bass obviously inspired by the 4004 range, and in Germany the rather strangely named Schloff Rocktyfier (no, I'm not making this up!) owes rather a lot to Rick's bass designs. Rickenbacker do prevent this copyright infringement when it comes to their attention (both Indie & Wesley are discontinuing importing their lookalikes) but I can tell you about one very curious exception: British luthiers John Birch Guitars have sold a Rick-based design (it's even called a 4001) since the early 70s, it features on their current website and I recently saw one displayed at a guitar trade show. Their instruments are hand made, exclusive & highly expensive, and I have no doubt that Rickenbacker are fully aware of this particular copy. The only reason I can think of that this is unchallenged, is that Rickenbacker registered their design patents after the JB 4001 went into production - making it impossible for them to accuse Birch of infringement. Notice that it's generally importers, rather than manufacturers, who are the targets of litigious action. I think that Rickenbacker's design patents are probably only applicable in the West, and these current copies - probably including yours - emanate from Korea, China, Taiwan etc, so the best Rickenbacker can do is to try & keep them out of the market. Jon.   Clapton299 Username: Clapton299 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 6:19 am:    So,in the end, I wish to find, and if the price is not too expensive,to bay a R**K (I's ok?) 330 copy like Partsman's Riff guitar.What can I do ? Hello, Gerardo   Slpraeg Username: Slpraeg Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 11:28 pm:    I bought one that looks exactly like the "RIFF" pictured here, except for the truss cover (Mine is blank), and the previous owner changed the tail piece to an LP standard stop style. The guy I got it from claimed it was an Ibanez but there are no markings on it at all. I recently changed out the pickups for Guitar Fetish brand NYIII style (in white). Included is a link to my personal page - http://www.scottpraegitzer.com/ibanez_lp_style_guitar.htm   Goat Username: Goat Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 5:42 pm:    Woah, another red Custom LP! Original finish on that fella? Don't see many of those, I tried to nab one off ebay but the guy made an offline sale after the first day and pulled the guitar. Nice stash you've got there!   Slpraeg Username: Slpraeg Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:44 pm:    Original as far as I know, it is indeed a beautiful guitar and sounds killer now with new pickups and pro setup. Thanks for asking!   Thesilentdawn Username: Thesilentdawn Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 7:31 pm:    I recently picked up two Ric copies. I sued to own a Rickenbacker 360. It had a great sound but the tiny fretboard and the horrible lacquer dumepd over said fretboard made it a pain to play. I started looking into a decent Korean copy with the feeling that even if the neck had to be junked along with the electric, I'd have a decent body to play with. I ended up with a 12-string no name copy and one of the Indie IRK500 copies. The no-name one looks identical to the RIff branded one in this thread. It plays very nicely, I haven't had time to set it up as I want, the action is a little high and 12-strings are rather fiddly so I'll have to dedicate some time to this. The Indie IRK500 has a markedly different headstock design to 'official Rickenbackers'. Same tailpiece as the Riff/no name brand, slightly different pickup design, haven't looked inside at the electronics. The Indie 6-string is more 360 like, it has the binding on the back of the body and the rounded edges. It plays brilliantly, so much nicer to play than my old 360! It needs the nut cut better as just about every Korean instrument I've had has been cut very tightly in terms of string spacing. it's a very good guitar for the money, I paid just over £200 for it. I bought it from a guy on Ebay, gave him my details before his ad got pulled as he mentioned Rickenbacker in his ad. I can see Rickenbacker's point in pulling the copies. Trademark protection is their right. I disagree with some of the ads that have been pulled though, one not long back for an early 70's Greco Ric was pulled. Some give and take is needed methinks. What annoys me with Rickenbacker is their adherence to old designs and no evolution. The small small fretboard, the same horrible lacquer on the board, no models that look good with a decent fretboard size... they could sell so many more with a few more options. You can get Ric copies on Ebay, you just have to know what you're looking for and what search words to use   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:46 pm:    I have a lot of respect for Rickenbacker's business ethos & integrity, despite how awkward & expensive they make it for collectors of vintage knockoff tat like me! They could sell a lot more instruments by doing a lot of things differently - but they are determined to remain a small-scale, essentially family-owned & run business, with an in-house, hands-on attitude to their product. As it is, they produce a high-quality, but not quite exclusive product, and can barely meet the demand for it. A lot of Rick copies come up on Ebay - most don't last,but those that do can sell for ridiculous money sometimes. It amazes me when a 4001 copy goes through for £500, while in the "real world" (ie not Ebay) genuine ones can sell for as little as £600. BTW a note to any US based readers who might be aghast at what I consider to be inexpensive for a Rick - the phenomenon's called "Ripoff Britain" Jon.   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 9-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:40 pm:    Perhaps if Rickenbacker were serious about stopping copies, then they should concentrate on all the headstock plates that are available on the market. This is becoming the biggest nightmare out for anyone who wants to collect vintage replicas. Just about every time you see a good replica for sale, some jerk has replaced the truss rod cover that you can buy for around $10.   Jchester Username: Jchester Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 12:03 am:    Good point, SJ. I'd been thinking the same thing, while reading this & the Univox & Ric forums links. btw... has anyone here played a recent issue 4003? The necks are like 2x4s. I'll keep my '85, but I don't think I'd recommend a new one for playability.

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