ST 50 1980s what do you compare..

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Author Message   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 8:04 pm:    Ive read some of the previous posts , im wondering what you guys think of the ST 50, it looks like the low end artist ? how do they sound, feel, look etc, how are the stock pups on them v2?? im thinking it may be a good second guitar, thanks jazzz   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 12:00 am:    Jazz, The ST50 and ST55 are some of my favorite Ibanez guitars. This is largely because they have all mahogany bodies and meshed with the V2s...give a warm tone. Of course what's warm to me may be muddy to others. I would compare this guitar most closely to a Gibson SG with a different scale length (the SG has a 24.75" scale while the Studios have 25.5" scales). So if you like SG tone...you will most likely appreciate the sound of the ST50 and ST55. Once you get into the higher end Studio series guitars the body materials become more high end as well...and the warmth of the mahogany is lost. However, many will perfer this sound to an all mahogany body. Oh...and build quality on these axes is certainly on par with every other Ibanez from this era. The challenge is finding one in good shape as most of the stuff on ebay is pretty beat up.   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 1:10 am:    how would you compare the sound to the artist series, ie ar 50 for example, it sounds like this st50 may have a nice woody tone, and how are those v2 pickups, thanks j   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 9:12 am:    Agr is right about the mahogany sounding warmer than maple, BUT... yes, there is a "but"... the STUDIO series are 24 fret guitars, and because of that the neck pickup is closer to the bridge than on a 21 or 22 fret guitar. Ergo, it will sound less warm than a traditional Les Paul or The Paul because the neck pickup is further away from the 12th fret (the warmest spot on your strings). But, having one, I must say it's a beautifully built guitar. I can't judge the V2's because they were already replaced when I bought it, but I have read several messages of ST50 owners who found them too trebbly and too loud, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just this position problem, which you can't solve by replacing the pickups. I took the advice of Dave and Freak and leave it as it is. With 12 Gibbies in the drawer, I'm not planning a V2 investment unless some bargain comes along. Ginger   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 1:03 pm:    ok, will this st50 then play, feel , more like a strat with the longer scale length, or perhaps somewhere between a strat and sg? how would this fit in compared to an artist series say ar50, playing wise and how it sounds, jazzzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 5:29 pm:    Then we would have to measure the distance from the 12th fret to the neck pickup. (I could do that on the ST50 and you could do that on the AR50). AND you would have to take into account that the AR50 has uncovered Super 70's, NOT V2's. Now, all right, I'll start with some measurements on my ST50: Total scale length: 25.5" (spec 1979 catalogue) 12th fret to closest neck pole pieces: 7.3" (calliper) 12th fret to farest bridge pole pieces: 11.77" (calliper) So, now you go ahead measuring these distances on your AR50 (just lay some PAFs in the pickup holes, if they're still empty). Total scale length: 24.75" (spec 1980 catalogue) 12th fret to closest neck pole pieces: ?.?" (measure) 12th fret to farest bridge pole pieces: ?.?" (measure) One thing's for sure. An ST50 does NOT feel like a Strat. It's actually incomparable to other guitars. The owner before me (Frank's guitar tech and a real Fender fanatic) couldn't get used to the long neck. So he brought it back to Frank, who sold it to me. I find the way it was built fascinating. Perhaps not ideal for the warm sound that I like, but the craftsmanship is outstanding. Especially that 3 ply maple neck (the AR50 neck is 3 ply birch btw). Ginger   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 5:58 pm:    thanks for the techie stuff, in laymans terms, how does the st50 feel and sound to you, compared to some of the artists, i will do my own tests later, just looking for a heads up that the st50 will be a good player and will sound good with the stock v2 pups etc, thanks, jazzzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 8:48 pm:    I find the ST50 NOT particularly jazzy/warm and I can't compare it to the AR artists, because I never had one. The only Artist I have is an AM-50 (1983) with Super 58's. Then I have Super 70's in my 2355M (just like you had). My old Gibson The Pauls (both 1978) sound much jazzier than the ST50, that's for sure. The ST50 sounds rather shrill. Do you remember the guy who put Phat Cats in them? Fantastic looking project, but he decided to sell it, afterwards. I think it's the long scale + 24 frets, that make it impossible to get a warm sound. I heard this theory also about the early GB10 and the later ones, after they added a fret. The shorter the distance between 12th fret and the pickup, the warmer it sounds. Ginger   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 10:25 pm:    well, i will give a report when i get my st50, maybe the sound wont be " warm " , but it still may be happening, tanks for the info, jazzzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 6:21 pm:    Hey Jazzz, did you see this one with the P94's? Ebay Item #230177119226 Amazing that nobody bought it. There's for 260 euros of Gibbies in it, 2 Super Grip ONE knobs, a chrome Gibraltar ONE bridge and a wrong tailpiece that's true... and a set of Grovers PLUS a case... Ginger   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 12:06 am:    Hi Guys, I apologize ahead of time if I'm stepping on toes here because I haven't read this whole thread carefully. Ginger...I'll give you the whole 24 fret thing and position of the neck pickup...but I have always felt that this is over-hyped. That aside...the V2 (from this era) is an overwound Alnico pickup that is far from trebbly. The ST50 and ST55 that I own are both very, very warm in tone...again some may say too mudddy...but I say very warm. My Gibson SG is the closest sounding guitar that I own to the mahogany bodied Studios. My Artists in comparison sound more trebbly.   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 12:25 am:    By the way Ginger...if you're interested in comparing the V2s for yourself...I have an extra set of V2s. Let me know.   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 1:48 am:    I saw that one st50 just sold in UK, and one didnt sell with the single coils, but im looking forward to getting mine, then i can compare to my ar50 and other Ibanez that have or have owned, sounds good to me so far.... jazzzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 5:01 am:    Agr, I've also encountered comments on Gibson PAFs as being too "muddy", so I think we have the same definition of what a "warm" sound is. Of course I'm interested in getting a warmer sound in my ST50 if that's what I get with original pickups. Not my first priority at the moment, but I am interested. In which country are you located? BTW: I don't think the pickup position thing is over-hyped. If it was over-hyped, you wouldn't hear any difference between a neck pickup and a bridge pickup. Relative distances matter, because it's all about nodes and anti-nodes I googled a few articles on this matter, so that we understand what happens in the process of creating electric guitar sound, instead of believing that there is magic involved, because there isn't: http://www.aqdi.com/pickups.htm http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/pick-pos.htm http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/index. html And an article about the connection between electrical characteristics and sound from Helmuth Lemme: http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/ There is also an integrated link to the German version. Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 8:11 am:    I broke out my ST100 after this thread started. I know it has maple in the middle but I still wanted to hear the V2's again because its been 6 months since I played it. I have to say that they are very mid range sounding. Even at half volume which is where I set them to most of the time when I want a clean sound. My only gripe about that guitar is the lack of controls knobs. One volume and one tone. THats the main reason it stays in the case. I can't get enough variance in it's tone to justify lugging it to around all the time. it may be in the classifieds soon.   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 10:36 pm:    Ginger, I'm located in the US. If you need V2s...send me an email. If you want to wait...no problem...these pickups aren't going anywhere. As far as the pickup position...I was speaking from experience. I know the science (I actually have a Bachelor Degree in Engineering) but I have found that science doesn't always work in the guitar world. Things are not black and white...mostly grey. I've probably spent way too much time tinkering with pickups, woods, necks, fingerboards, etc...and in the end I feel that neck position makes less difference than many other variables. I think I probably did this bacause I was so dissapointed with available information before the internet. I had to basically run some kind of controlled tests to satisfy my appetite. So in the end this is all my opinion and that's it. That's why it's funny...but some of my least expensive guitars turn out to have the best tone. But then again...tone is in the EARS of the beholder. Sounds like you and I seek out similar "warm" tone.   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 12:51 am:    I also believe tone is found in the finger tips, have you ever listened to Peter Green ? same LES PAUL FLAME TOP guitars, similar amps MARHALL AND FENDER and effects, but differnt tones, thats my two cents .... jazzzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 8:15 am:    So what do we need pickup selectors for? If the distances wouldn't matter, you could as well use the bridge pickup for jazz... It's a discussion like: - "the weels are the most important parts of a car" - "but without a motor it isn't a car, so the motor must be the most important part." - "but if you forget the fuel, the motor won't run, so the fuel is the most important" What I mean to say is: IT'S A CHAIN, AND A CHAIN IS AS WEAK OR AS STRONG AS THE WEAKEST LINK! If Peter Green uses a rotten cable of $2.50 he will sound as rotten as that cable. His finger tips won't help. A better cable will. Ginger   Agr Username: Agr Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 12:06 pm:    "So what do we need pickup selectors for?" The spacing differences between treble and rhythem pickups are much more significant than the differences that we are discussing. I'm not saying that it won't make a difference...just that the difference is not as significant as other factors. Let's agree to disagree and move on. Trust me...you won't sell me with all the science in the world. You need to actually try it and then we can continue the discussion.   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 6:10 pm:    I guess wht im saying is this, PETER GREEN using a strat or a les paul, and yet he gets a warm tone, cheers,

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