'87 AR300CS Super Edition!

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Author Message   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 5:48 pm:    Can't say I've ever seen one: http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D260031619309 Auction 260031619309   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:04 pm:    Not a bad BIN$...needs a cloud   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:10 pm:    A cloud under a Quick Change II? No way! Ginger   Tigerstripe Username: Tigerstripe Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 12:45 am:    read the fine print on that auction: "About the condition: this one is not in collector's condition. Except for the pickup-selector switch incl. tip, the strap pins and the Trussrod-Cover it is all original. There are a few dings, dongs and finish chips, most of them on the back, a few on the top and the neck but those doesn't affect the playability. There are 3 slight hairline cracks at the back of the neck (ONLY in the Finish and NOT at the neck heel!) which doesn't affect the playability as well. They are hardly visible and couldn't be photographed. I own this guitar for almost 2 years and noticed those cracks just recently, really no big deal! The neck is straight but the frets show considerable wear on the first 12 frets. If you prefer the "Fretless Wonder" feeling, a fret dress should do the job. Otherwise a refret could be necessary " hardly worth 1000$ with those costly issues like refret and neck stress...never mind the shipping...   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 12:48 am:    Why ever not? My 82 AR305AV has the same QC tailpiece (slanted slots) AND a cloud, but mine has the Gibraltar I bridge.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 4:21 am:    IMO it is either: Gibraltar I + Quick Change I + cloud or Gibraltar II + Quick Change II + a beautiful untouched wooden surface. http://www.ivc.ca/misc/artist/ar305.htm (from an esthetical point of view) But there seems to be a transition period '82/'83: You described your combination as follows: 1982 Gibraltar I + Quick Change II + cloud which I found on the same page as the 1982 Gibraltar II + Quick Change II + cloud http://mm38jp.hp.infoseek.co.jp/AR305AV-3.htm and I found 1983 Gibraltar II + Quick Change II + cloud http://mm38jp.hp.infoseek.co.jp/AR305av.htm I even saw two versions of a 1986 AR300CS: http://mm38jp.hp.infoseek.co.jp/86ar300cs.htm So, I guess the only combinations that weren't used are: Gibraltar II + Quick Change I + Cloud Gibraltar II + Quick Change I + untouched wood So the combination String suggested was indeed used on the 1986 and 1987 AR300CS. But also was the combination on item=260031619309 Since there are no signs of drilling holes in the top, it must be original. So it doesn't NEED a cloud, but some of us might prefer a cloud. I must admit that, the more I look at both versions, the more I can accept the suggested combination (also esthetically). But I would never drill in an untouched top! Thanks for your input Bluesmeister! It was a real eye-opener to me. Ginger   Emilio Username: Emilio Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 5:05 am:    Mmmmmm...that green on the hard case looks good.... By the way , can anyone help me with Hasenobu's (new?) email? cheers emilio   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 5:26 am:    They used the same green lining in the Yamaha SG cases. I've got two: one for my Yamaha SG-400, and one... for my Les Paul Standard DC. A bit more decent and masculin than shocking pink. Hasenobu's e-mail address: arworld@poke1.jp   Emilio Username: Emilio Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 8:51 am:    Thanks, but that email is the old one , does not work. I beleive he said he had a new one? cheers emilio   Orval Username: Orval Registered: 03-2001 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 9:29 am:    there were 2 versions of the "cloud tailpiece set", the first had straight slots in the tailpiece, the second had angled slots. the bolt spacing was different. the cloud piece is the same for both   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 9:31 am:    The Cloud disappeared in 1985 with the introduction of the "Super Edition" models. The Gibraltar II bridge and Quik Change II tailpiece were officially used since 1983. Prior to that the Artist and Musician models used the Gibraltar (I) bridge and the 2nd version of the Gibraltar tailpiece with the slanted slots, but not the Quik Change tailpiece. Although the "Super Editions" came out in 1985, the gold plated pickup rings were already used in 1984 on the High-End Artists. I have those rings on a AR305 and a AR1505 so I have the best of both worlds, the golden PU-Rings and the Cloud Juergen   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 11:09 am:    As a addition to Orval's post: There were at least 3 versions of the Cloud ornament: 1977 - First series as part of the newly introduced Gibraltar hardware 1980 - the 2nd version (which is slightly larger) came out together with the 2nd version of the Gibraltar tailpiece with the slanted slots 1983 - The 3rd version appeared together with the Gibraltar II bridge and Quik Change II tailpiece. This one has a "rectangular engraving" around the 'Ibanez' logo Not to mention the very first appearance of the Cloud in 1977 as a part of the tailpiece, but that doesn't count as a separate ornament The first separate Cloud shows up in a catalog printed in late '77 which actually features the '78 production models. OK, that should be enough useless info for today Juergen   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 6:33 pm:    Blues...exactly! I noticed the tune changed from to "no way" to IMO...but don't bother with gaby, there's only output there...nothing coming in if YKWIM. hmmm...now it needs a cloud more than ever...maybe two   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 7:43 pm:    Strings, I didn't see a single drilling hole in this guitar, HYGOOMC. Ginger   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 11:23 pm:    I've got a drill and I've no concience :0\   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 3:38 am:    I found a picture of an AR3000VV with Gibraltar II/QCI & Cloud Still looking for Gibraltar II/QCI/No Cloud so far without success.   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 12:44 pm:    Strings: There's nothing coming in? Yeah, there will be definitely no drill holes for a Cloud coming in any of my post 1984 Artists But seriously: Although I'm a fan of the Cloud myself, I would never make such a nonreversible modification to add a part that doesn't belong on an Artist model of that period of time. But that's of course just my opinion, happy drilling! Bluesmeister: For reasons only Hoshino knows the tailpiece for the '04 AR3000VV was called 'Quick Change'. Actually it's the first version of the Gibraltar tailpiece with the straight slots. The (re)use of that tailpiece seems rather illogical to me since the QCII is still in production and would be the "historically correct" part to be used together with the Gibraltar II bridge. Maybe they wanted to recreate the Vintage Vibe or they only had the specs for the old stuff at hand, who knows... Here is a scan of the 1980 parts catalog that shows the various tailpieces: So if you're looking for Gibraltar II/QCI/No Cloud, then don't look any further 'cause such a combination of series I and II hardware doesn't exist... unless the guitar has been modified which would be difficult since, as Orval stated, both had different bolt spacing... or it is an AR3000VV Juergen   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 5:23 pm:    Yogi... always pulling it all together! Truth is I know nothing of post '82.8 Artist save for the one instance I played an 83 300 w/GibII and no brass block...didn't like it much when compared to my '81. The 'drill' comment goes along with my idea of putting two clouds on an AR...kinda kidding... Anyway Yogi, there is only one guitar for me...and it ain't without a cloud and you outta know which ONE it is by now ! Hint: She was raised in Italy!   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 6:45 pm:    Yeah, I'm aware of your obsession for the beautiful Signorina but I'm pretty sure that she will stay in the family for a loooong time... Juergen   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 7:40 pm:    For a long time I thought the text in Jim Donahue's parts catalogue summaries were original, but I think the above catalogue and the typing error "origional" instead of "original" prove otherwise: http://www.noahjames.com/vintagepage/parts.html It looks like even Hoshino took this information seriously. They used the name "Quick Change tailpiece" also in connection with the Paul Stanley Iceman model PS LTD and Classic compared with their 1978 predecessor: http://vintageibanez.tripod.com/psmodels.html So we all seem to have been parroting for years. What we knew as "Quick Change (I)" was officially named (at pattented under that name) "Gibraltar tailpiece" (allows Quick String Changes). And what we know as "Quick Change II" was actually in the 1980 catalogue as "Quick-Change tailpiece" PART NUMBERS/ PARTNUMBERS TAIL PIECES/ TAILPIECES To avoid confusion it is best to use the part numbers instead of these names: 224 = De Luxe Fancy Tailpiece 225 = nameless cloud tailpiece for solidbody electric guitar 226 = Gibraltar tailpiece (straight slots and INCLUDING "decorative brass plate" = cloud, which has NO separate part number), later known as Quick Change (I) The mounting parts for the Gibraltar tailpiece: 226-1 = anchor base (bushing) 226-2 = anchor (bolt) 226-3 = lock nut 226-4 = nylon washer 227 = Quick Change Tailpiece (slanted slots), later known as Quick Change II The mounting parts for the Quick Change Tailpiece, later know as Quick Change II: 227-1 anchor base (bushing) 227-2 anchor (bolt) For all Gold parts they added -G, but I have seen 224 in chrome, though it is described only in Gold, without -G here. If they let this number unchanged, it is possible that they gave the chrome 224 the addition -C. Right, now they are all manually typed, anyone can look them up using the Search engine, because it doesn't read pictures. What's nice to see is the description of the function of the "decorative brass plate" we know as "cloud": "adds mass to increase sustain" So just like the "fat finger". I say: if you want a guitar with maximum weight / sustain, build one of solid maple. Les Paul made only the top out of maple, because all maple guitars would be too heavy. So he started to use mahogany (which is lighter) with a maple top (to regain the lost sustain). Now I know that brass is cheaper than solid tiger striped maple, but they also could have used a maple top that was a millimeter thicker, but what the heck, we've learned to love that cloud, with that beautiful word on it: [...] HYGOOMC .... http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling+stones/get+off+my+cloud_10243441.html BTW: This one NEEDS two;   Orval Username: Orval Registered: 03-2001 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 8:45 pm:    so here's the story on why the ar3000 has the older style straight slot tailpiece assembly: JD and i were visiting on the phone about the ar2000 which i was fairly impressed with. i told JD that the top of the line artist should have block inlays and fancy hardware and that if hoshino would make it that way i would buy one. well, hoshino just happened to have a few old style tailpiece sets in the parts bin and block inlays were not a big deal, so the ar3000 was born. i was hoping to play one at the namm show in nashville but hoshino did not have the model at the show. at namm 2005 i found out that it had been dropped from the line. after a search of the bensalem and japan warehouse proved uneventful, a dealer on the east coast had one, and i fulfilled my promise.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 9:19 pm:    Ginger the "cloud" now has its own designated part number since the shiort run of the 2004 AR3000VV. http://www.ibanez.com/parts/2004_PARTS/el_guitar/parts/2QC1JO1G.html   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 10:04 pm:    OK, I'm going to cause a little more confusion here then. The Quick Change Tailpiece on my 1982 Artist has round holes, not C-shaped slots as shown in Yogi's post. It utilises the same nut/washer combination as shown in the 226-G Gibraltar Tailpiece.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:01 am:    Yogi...yeah, that's what Bogie and McCall said...and I'll be right there waitin'...just like in the movies. #@^!, I'd pay to here ya play it. Best...   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:07 am:    hear or here...   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:10 am:    Ginger......what?   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 5:51 am:    So, we ad two more numbers to the list: 2QC1JO1G = TAILPIECE ORNAMENT FOR AR3000 (cloud); ???????? = QUIK CHANGE/ QUICK CHANGE TAILPIECE with angled slots and the anchor system of the GIBRALTAR TAILPIECE. Do you have a part number of that last one, Bluesmeister (or anybody)? Ginger   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:29 am:    Orval: Thanks for sharing that story! Seems like I didn't think about the probably most obvious explanation: NOS parts! But now I'm curious: If those tailpieces are really NOS and are in fact Gibraltar types, what is engraved at the back? Maybe you (or another owner of a AR3000VV) could take a look and let us know ?!? Bluesmeister: That is a nice example of Ibanez messing it up themselves: The description of 1982 is correct, those are actually Gibraltar tailpieces. Strings: You'd pay to hear me play my AR3000? Believe me, you'd claim a refund immediately 'cause I suck! Ginger: From the small catalog scan I posted it's hard to see but it actually says "base plate", not "brass plate". In item descriptions on Ebay sellers often talk about the "high quality brass hardware" used on the Ibanez guitars and I used to believe that myself years ago until I found out that the Gibraltar bridges, tailpieces and the Cloud ornament were made of zinc cast. The sustain block could be brass, I can't tell that for sure since I haven't seen one of those "undressed" so far. Juergen   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 10:58 am:    Here ya go Yogi...   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:18 am:    Yogi I emailed these pics to you at the original size so you could get a better view. I took the last one outdoors so the flash would not reflect it. I would never have taken that off for anyone but a fellow ICW member. When I did I found 2 flaws underneath. Anyway unless anyone can prove otherwise, I believe that Ibanez got the cloud idea directly from the Rex Bogue "double rainbow" guitar when they copied it into the Artwood Twin. Of course it has evolved over the years and became an ornament seperate from the tailpiece it was part of.   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:45 am:    Yogi, I'm barely getting by on "Smoke on the Water" on the 6th string with the state of my left hand these days...and anything is better than that!   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 11:56 am:    BTW...here's what I've been alluding to:   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:02 pm:    Wow Ibanezfreak, thanks a lot, I really appreciate that! I've received the pics, thanks for those! The Cloud ornament of your AR3000VV looks exactly like the old ones. I grabbed the only old Ibanez I could get my hands on at the moment to make some comparisons. Unfortunately that guitar is my ugly MC300 NT project but anyway, here we go: Here is the Cloud Here is the Gibraltar tailpiece. Since there's no designation on it, they could easily call it whatever they wanted when putting them on the AR3000VV. And they did... And here you have it, pure Zinc Beauty! Juergen   Jcmc64 Username: Jcmc64 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:05 pm:    "...Yeah, there will be definitely no drill holes for a Cloud coming in any of my post 1984 Artists But seriously: Although I'm a fan of the Cloud myself, I would never make such a nonreversible modification to add a part that doesn't belong on an Artist model of that period of time. But that's of course just my opinion, happy drilling! " hear, hear...!!! Well put Yogi...   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:45 pm:    Jcmc64...If you don't have the stomach for it, I'd be glad to drill them for you! My hands are a little shaky from DTs, but I can promise to keep the error holes on the inside of the cloud position so that you won't even see them once the cloud is in place. I usually only make about seven error holes (+/- 2 holes) per cloud. Or, you could get the sarcasm from my earlier posts...either way.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 1:34 pm:    Yep I guess that proves Orvals statemant of the NOS. I hope that is not the fate of my hardware. I would hate to see mine pitted.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 7:47 pm:    Yogi, Thank you for correcting the reading error "brass plate" instead of "base plate". I won't weary you with the psycholinguistic principles behind this type of errors. What's obvious, is that: "brass adds mass" rhymes better than: "base adds mass" But perhaps I just should have cleaned my glasses. Pit corrosion can be very ugly. I had a pitted Gold stop bar tail piece on a walnut/maple/walnut Vintage Suzuki ES-335 model. Because a friend of mine put a pair of chrome covered Gibson "Super Humbuckers" in it, I bought a NOS chrome Ibanez 227 tailpiece for it. The original gold tuners are still on it, and it has a brass nut. It's a helluva player now. (I kept all original parts of course). HASN'T ANYONE FOUND THE PARTNUMBER FOR THE TAILPIECE BLUESMEISTER SHOWED US YET? If nobody finds an Ibanez catalogue that describes it including a part number, may be a Greco parts catalogue could perhaps be helpfull?! Some time ago there was this link to Greco catalogues that showed all kinds of identical parts. But it was all to small to read the numbers/descriptions. If we just could contact the person who owns the real catalogue, perhaps we would know more. I'm referring to the 1978 GRECO parts catalogue: http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~shake/greco/catalogue/1978p/1978p.html Where we see among other things: on page 16 the Greco equivalents of Ibanez part 226 = Gibraltar tailpiece (straight slots and INCLUDING "decorative base plate" = cloud and of Ibanez part 227 = Qui(c)k Change Tailpiece (slanted slots), later known as Qui(c)k Change II But it's all in Japanese. I guess we need Hasenobu to contact the owner of the website. All we need is a good full size scans of the 1978 and 1980 replacement parts catalogues. 1978 especially page 16 (and 13 for the bridge) 1980 especially pages 10 and 11 But there are all kinds of other parts that are interesting of course, such as sure grip knobs, pickups etc. (I would like to read it all). BTW, I didn't recognize Bluesmeister's 1982 QUIK CHANGE because the Greco parts catalogues are just a few years too old. But the best place to look would of course be a 1982 or 1983 Ibanez Replacement Parts Catalogue. If we could find that. Ginger   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:21 pm:    Strings: Who's guitar is that? Do you realize it's a vintage AR3000, not an AR500? mk   Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 9:06 pm:    MK - Too aware if you ask Yogi. That is his "Signorina" - In my mind, early 80's AR3000 > AR5000 by a margin...that's my "Grail"!   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 9:27 am:    Lots of part numbers here: https://cs.hoshinogakki.co.jp/i-public/faces/CategorySideMenu00.jsp#   Bobzilla Username: Bobzilla Registered: 02-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:07 pm:    A little off topic, and I said this in an earlier thread but... looking at Yogi's axe, I think I can say safely say that it was cut from the same tree as my ar5000 and most if not all of the other 4 ar5000's I've seen as well (even though Yogi's is an ar3000.) The grain is exact. Less pronounced on the upper half (when in playing position.) And the rest of the grain seems exact as well. They must have thought very highly of that cut of wood. There's no way it's from another tree. Must have been a decent sized tree. If 55 or so of the ar5000's were made... I'd like to see one with a different grain pattern, just out of curiosity. Can't imagine they made 55 from same tree. Yogi, that's an '81 serial # on the back there, I'll bet. Correct? And If not for the missing vine...   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 4:33 am:    Bluesmeister, Your 1982 tailpiece is not in the list. Ginger   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 8:49 am:    Gemberbier, I noticed it wasn't on the list, but I've seen it somewhere, I'll keep hunting until I track down the part number.   Hasenobu Username: Hasenobu Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 8:26 pm:    Regarding Gemberbier's article posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 04:21 am. The three of the links to Mr. mm38jp's website show his "modified" AR's.   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 6:32 pm:    Bobzilla: Your assumption is correct, my AR3000 was made in 1981. I agree with you that the grain of the AR5000's look very similar on the pics that were posted here but I think that the grain on my AR3000 looks different, though. Some time ago Fox posted pis of his friend's '80 AR3000 (with a replaced Bridge). It's really a shame to use such a plain top on a "Limited Edition" model. Ginger: You wrote: "Ibanez part 227 = Qui(c)k Change Tailpiece (slanted slots), later known as Qui(c)k Change II" Just to clarify: The Quik Change Tailpieces had always slanted slots and the Quik Change variants I and II are actually different models, not just different names. Some time ago I had both variants side by side so I can tell for sure. Here are some "new" numbers from the '83 parts catalog: YE301 - Gibraltar II Bridge YE400 - Quik Change II Tailpiece YE401 - Cloud Ornament Juergen   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 7:35 pm:    If you mean the tailpiece on the above 1980 AR300: according to Bluesmeister's original info on one hand and the 1982 catalogue on the other it is called both Quik-Change Tailpiece AND Gibraltar Tailpiece. On one hand they explicate that the Gibraltar Tailpiece introduced angled slots. We know that the first Gibraltar Tailpieces had straight slots. What the two have in common is that they are "locked rigidly to the body" with bolts and nuts (anchors). So the tailpiece we see above and in this 1982 catalogue http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1982_ar_mc.pdf covers two important features (bolts and nuts of the old Gibraltar TP + angled slots of the Quik-Change TP) is a DOUBLE NAMED tailpiece, what makes things only more confusing. I think using a partnumber would be the ideal solution to avoid this confusion. Thanks for the new 1983 part numbers, Juergen. I look into it later. Ginger   Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 12:58 am:    Here's the text of an e-mail I sent to Ibanezfreak1960 back in October 2004: OK, A bit more digging and I found these on the Ibanez.com USA web site under Parts: 1) 2QC1JQ1G Tailpiece is from the 2004 catalogue for the AR3000 This looks like what you have on your Artist. 2) 2QC1JQ2G Tailpiece is from the 2000, 2001, 2002 & 2003 catalogue for the AR2000 3) 2QC1HQ3C is from the 2004 catalogue for the AR200 & AR300 If you can imagine No 1 with angled slots, that's what I have on my AR305AV. The adjusting slotted screws and locking nuts are identical to mine. It looks to me as though the chrome tailpiece (2QC1HQ3C) has angled slots. Regards, I was rather hoping this would solve the part number problem, but alas, not so. I think the only way to clear this up once and for all is if someone has pre-1983 parts catalogue they can scan for us.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 9:16 am:    Bluesmeister, Your right, since your tailpiece is seen in the overall catalogues 1981, and 1982 we need a parts catalogue of 1981 or 1982. These newer part codes as in your 3 examples above consist of abbreviations of names and features: 2 = second part or spare part; QC= Quik-Change Tailpiece; O1= Ornament1 (cloud) Q1= Quik-Change1, Q2= Quik-Change2, Q3= Quik-Change3; J= ?could have something to do witch anchor base? H= ?could mean without anchor bases? G = Gold, C = Chrome; The Gibraltar Tailpiece 226-3G is identical to the 2QC1JQ1G which is described as TAILPIECE(QUICKCAHNGE) [yes, with typo] in the in the online parts catalogue. BTW, some googling brought me to an old discussion of 2004 in which you Bluesmeister, Yogi, Spiro and Toms_Korber took part. Here's a link to that 2004 discussion: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/12/7872.html I read you were already that creative that you added MK I and Mark II to existing names, but they are NOT OFFICIAL, so they don't help if you want to order a spare part from the factory. I think Ibanezfreak1960 stepped into the pitfall of taking the TEXT of JD's parts list for original Ibanez catalogue text, and that is exactly what it is NOT. Jim Donahue added this text himself (blue on the website) as an explanation. And JD is only human... just like all guys from Ibanez BTW, because this part identification problem starts with them using two names for one and the same part. I guess that we can call all these tailpieces with slots, angled AND straight: Qui(c)k(-)Change, because: they distinguish themselves by the possibility to change your strings quickly by hooking them loose after a few turns with the machine head: you don't have to pull them through like in a Gibson stop tailpiece (that's why I love them) Then of all these Quik Change tailpieces there are two that use bolts and nuts to "lock them rigidly to the body", like the Gibraltar bridge. These two Quik Change tailpieces both are called Gibraltar Tailpieces. You could call them Mark I and Mark II (from a historical point of view), or Gibraltar Tailpiece with straight slots and Gibraltar Tailpies with angled slots (from a technical point of view), fact is that we still don't have a partnumber for the last one. May be it's because they actually should have called the Quik Change II Quik Change III and the Quick Change III Quik Change IV. That's irreversible now. Suggestion for Hoshino: Please, think of new partnumber between 2QC1JQ1G and 2QC1JQ2G, and make it available as NOS part. I understand that the cost of such an operation would be enormous, but not if it's combined with some reissues of early 80's ARs and/or the MC500 with this tailpiece. This would create enough spin-off to make it profitable, I guess. Ginger   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 9:57 am:    I posted that pic of the '80 AR3000 only in relation to Bobzilla's comments about the grain of those "Limited Edition" models and not to add even more confusion to the Tailpiece discussion. Looks like I failed miserably in that mission Ginger, as I stated above I just wanted to make clear that there are actual differences between the QC I and QC II tailpieces and that not only a name change happened. As I already said in a previous message there are typos in the catalogs Bluesmeister provided scans of, those Tailpiece(s) pictured in the scans are actually Gibraltar Tailpieces. To be precise: Gibraltar Tailpiece 2nd version with the slanted slots. No double names given Wanna proof? OK, here you are: I agree that a part number could solve some of this confusion but otherwise there are already 2 part numbers for the Quik Change II Tailpiece... Unless someone can provide scans of the '81-'82 parts catalogs we could call that thing 'Gibraltar Tailpiece MKII', or something similar. I think that would be easier instead of bombing people with numbers of parts that are not available anymore, anyway. At least there is only one version of this tailpiece existing... Juergen   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:00 am:    and here are the pics:   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:44 am:    Yogi, Beautiful! Your picture just confirms what I wrote: all tailpieces with bolts and nuts are called Gibraltar, also when their slots are angled. But they also use the Quik Change principle: slots instead of holes. So they are a particular type of Quik Change tailpiece too. Look at the text under the picture of the Gibraltar bridge and the above tailpiece in what Bluesmeister posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 10:04 pm: It says Quik Change Tailpiece. So double names were given to one and the same tailpiece... and that's where the whole sh.. started. So every Gibraltar tailpiece is a Quik Change tailpiece, but only two Quik Change tailpieces are Gibraltar tailpieces. (the ones with nuts) And every Quik Change tailpiece is of course a... tailpiece, but not every tailpiece is a Quik Change. And there are Gibraltar TPs with straight slots and angled slots. (Just as every red-and-white cow 's a cow, but not every cow is a red-and-white cow. And every cow is an animal but not every animal is a cow. And there are red-and-white cows with straight horns and curved horns.) Having two part numbers for one part is less a problem than having NONE for an existing part. Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 11:52 am:    I don't recall following anything by JD. I posted the current cloud part number for Ibanez USA.(hoshino usa).   Yogi Username: Yogi Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 2:25 pm:    Yes, the attachment with bolts and nuts are typical features of the Gibraltar Tailpieces but that difference to the QC TPs seemed obvious, so I didn't mentioned it explicitly. Sorry if that added confusion. Ginger, I've read the text under the the picture and I say for the 3rd time: It was a typo, a mistake, a fault... but not giving 2 names for the same part. The pic in question was taken from the '81 catalog, page 4. http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/us/1981/index.htm They printed the description of the Quik Change Tailpiece under a picture of a Gibraltar Bridge & Tailpiece and that's it. In the specs of the AR100 and the higher models it correctly says 'Gibraltar Tailpiece'. The Gibraltar Tailpiece was introduced in 1977, the Quik Change came out in 1978 so doesn't make that every QC actually a Gibraltar?!? I'd say that having a part number only makes sense if you can order that part but the fact that the Gibraltar MKII tailpiece is existing on many of our guitars doesn't make it existing in any current parts catalogs so that it could be ordered from Hoshino. I'm pretty sure that, if a '81 or '82 parts catalog will show up someday, we'll find out that the official name of that thing is...is..."Gibraltar Tailpiece"...Ta-daa! What would we call it then? "Gibraltar Tailpiece with slanted slots", "Gibraltar Tailpiece 2nd version" or maybe "Gibraltar Tailpiece MKII"?!? Mmh, sounds familiar. But at least we had a part number... I think that's enough said as far as I'm concerned, so I'll bail out and look for some painkillers Oh, by the way: Very nice AR300 CS "Super Edition" Juergen   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 2:40 pm:    I'll close with saying that the cloud piece is still available from HoshinoUSA. I emailed my contact and will post the list price when I get a reply.   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 4:15 pm:    List price for the cloud piece $30.00 USA.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 6:06 pm:    So, this is a rip-off: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ibanez-Artist-Musician-Tailpiece-Cloud-Vintage-NOS-NRSV_W0QQ itemZ230033868094QQihZ013QQcategoryZ41407QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I've bought a NOS Gibraltar I Bridge and Tailpiece including this ornament several years ago. No this guy is splitting these sets up and selling them for $69.- (cloud) $40.- (studs and bolts). The price for a slightly damaged tailpiece I forgot, must have been about $69.- or so. That's $180.- for the tailpiece set. And the Gibraltar I bridge: $320.- So all together that's $500.- !!! Is my NOS stuff really worth that much? I have it laying in the drawer, waiting until the right piece of wood passes by. But sometimes I just don't believe my eyes. And then I read that it's zink under that gold plating instead of brass... (I only see gold, because it's NOS) and I think, there must be something wrong with my eyes, or the seller is just fishing but not catching... But then I see the $40.- for the anchors and anchor bases (bolts and studs) is a BID! And I think: "It's getting more and more interesting to cash this stuff!" But I just don't know what a lovely piece of wood I will find just after I sold it, like an Artist with totally corroded parts... It's become sort of an umbrella in the drawer that never has been opened, waiting for the rain to come. A rain of... beautifully grained AR wood... Drool... Ginger   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 7:51 pm:    Overlooked the 2 One bridge is $160.- two bridges are $320.- Total $340.- That's still a lot of money. Ginger   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 8:44 pm:    Ginger I sent you a email.   Kaszon Username: Kaszon Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 6:01 am:    Here is the guitar of the topic, I'm totally happy with it! Click here - Ibanez Artist AR300 Special Edition   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 11:27 am:    Kaszon: You did real good! I love the look of these mid '80s SEs. Even if they don't have the "cloud". You got it for a good price, too. There's one on ebay right now with a $1200.00 BIN.   Kaszon Username: Kaszon Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:28 pm:    Johns, I don't mind the "cloud". I bought the guitar for play. I had an Artist AR50 Polar White before, but the PU's weren't original. I was searching for a beautiful Artist which has a real vintage sound and looks beautiful. I think I found now for a reasonable price. Yeah, the Super 58 TriSound is awesome!!!

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