Machine Heads....Shaller or Goto?

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Author Message   Krash (Krash) Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:14 pm:    Or does it really matter??? I have always used locking type trems so I never paid much attention..they either work or they dont. Now that I have a non locking nut, who makes the better keys & why? I need advice.....   Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 7:58 am:    Most name brands are good quality, but I MUST WARN against Schaller locking 3-on-a-side machine heads. I installed a pair on my Talman with a graphite nut, Gotoh/Wilkinson trem, and a tremsetter. Spent months wondering why it wouldn't stay in tune (focussing on the nut, trem, and tremsetter). To my astonishment, it was the tuners. There was enough play in the gears to let the posts turn when the strings were loosened during trem use, and the posts did not return to the exact original spot. Very, very bad for a high quality locking machine head. I don't believe that Gotoh still makes locking tuners under the Gotoh name, but if I'd found some I would've bought them over the Schallers. I replaced the faulty Schallers with Planet Waves locking tuners (thinking they may be made by Gotoh). Not sure if they're Gotoh, but they're working fine. Guitar stays in tune. Frustration over. Other choices include Grover and Sperzel. I have no experience with either of these yet (a set of Sperzels await the completion of a project guitar).   Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 10:52 am:    I would go with the Gotohs, because they look very similar to Ibanez smooth tuners. I wouldn't be surprised if they were made by Gotoh. Allparts sells them: TK 0767-010Ê $70.00 Gotoh Locking Tuning Keys, Minis, 6-in-line, Chrome With Screws 16:1, 3/8" Pegholes required   Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 11:12 am:    Confirmed. Out of curiosity, I just grabbed my '91 540R to compare the tuners to the picture. The (non-locking) tuners actually are Gotohs - complete with logo. The Ibanez smooth tuners on my other guitars are identical to the Gotohs, aside from a "Made in Japan" marking, and absence of the Gotoh logo on the smooth tuners. The cast body of the locking version in the picture looks to be identical to the non-locking version. If you have smooth tuners on the guitar, I'd go with the Gotohs to keep both the looks and the mounting hole configuration as close to stock as possible. Gotoh makes decent quality parts, so functionality should be OK. Has anyone tried these? -Sven   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 11:43 am:    If I need aftermarket tuners, I use Gotoh. Cheap, but they work great. Gotoh was the OEM supplier for the majority of Ibanez tuners through the 80's & 90's. Although I don't have any proof, I'm convinced that Ibanez Smooth Tuner II's were, in fact, made by Gotoh. The design is identical. I have had limited experience with Schallers (non-locking), but nothing negative. If you want to go with locking tuners, Sperzels are the way to go. They will require some modification (extra hole) to the headstock. As always, YMMV Cheers Steve   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 11:48 am:    FYI: Stewart MacDonald is the source I use: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead.html Cheers Steve   Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 5:27 pm:    Hi Steve, It doesn't look like Stew Mac has the locking version. The regular ones are cheap at around $30. But the locking version is right up there at $70-80.   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 7:31 pm:    Interesting that they don't carry the Gotoh lockers. Did you look at the Planets Waves lockers? They look just like the Gotohs! Cheers Steve   Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 7:28 am:    Is there an echo in here? Just kidding. Like I previosly wrote, I just installed a set of Planet Waves tuners and they do look like a Gotoh product for the most part. So far they seem to be good locking tuners - very smooth. Not sure if the tiny screw holes line up with standard Gotoh because my Talman is a 3-on-a-side headstock and came with mini-Gotohs. The Planet Waves 3-on-a-side are larger tuners and required different tiny screw holes (typical for this size tuner). I ordered them, along with the defective Schallers I returned, from www.stewmac.com. Nice to know that they let me return the Schallers after 6 months !! Here's a pic of the Planet Waves Locking Tuners...   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 11:46 am:    Oops! That's what I get for reading too fast. Didn't mean to step on your toes, Craig. I missed the reference to the Planet Waves in your ealier post. Cheers Steve   Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 2:43 pm:    That's OK, Steve, I know you didn't mean to. I should've mentioned that my personal choices in locking tuners are not necessarily the best, and that I'm not pushing the Planet Waves tuners. Sperzels still seem to be the popular favorite for quality locking tuners (as you had mentioned, Steve). Just wish they made them in shiny finishes (no chrome?!). Guess the Sperzels I have saved for a 'project in progress' are kinda rare - they're a nice nickel finish.   Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 5:08 pm:    Ditto on the Sperzels. I don't like the matte finish either. The Planet waves do look similar to the Gotohs, but they have that big honkin' knob on the back. The nice thing about the Gotoh lockers is that they maintain a totally stock appearance. There is a chance that the mechanism on the Gotoh is less positive than the Planet waves - this is just a guess based on looking at the picture.   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 6:52 pm:    Hey Sven, How do the Gotoh lockers work? Never seen a locker that didn't have the thumbwheel on the bottom. Craig, Do you know how old your Sperzels are? I've seen shiny ones before, but they were always well used. The matte finish would be cool if you could get matching hardware for the rest of the guitar! Cheers Steve   Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 7:02 pm:    Steve, I've never seen the Gotoh lockers in person. If you look at the larger picture at allparts.com, a shaft with a string hole fits into a larger tubular shaft. I assume there's some sort of double action, where the smaller shaft retracts when you wind it, clamping the string. Sounds a little iffy. That's why I was wondering how "positive" they are. I don't know. I'll have to buy a set and see.   Bobmeredith (Bobmeredith) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 7:08 pm:    I put Sperzals on my LR-10 and my AR-300. You don't need to widen the hole, and there are no extra screw holes in the back of the head if I want put the originals back on. They are really smooth and lash free. I had to put satin on the LR-10, but it was well worth it.   Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 7:25 pm:    Hi Bob, No extra holes? What about the roll pin that prevents the tuner from rotating? Cheers Steve   Bobmeredith (Bobmeredith) Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 8:08 pm:    Thanks Steve, As I understand it it would be covered if the original pickups were put back on. A Luthier did the installation, so I didn't see exactly how they work.He assured me that there would be no problem putting the old tuners back on. Now you've got me thinking. Next time I do a string change I'll take one off and check. Does any one else know?   Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 7:06 am:    Steve, I don't know how old my Sperzels are. I bought them from a repair shop and they were an in-stock item. Guess I just got lucky.   Bobmeredith (Bobmeredith) Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 6:30 pm:    I meant to say tuners in my last post. I guess I've got pickups on the brain.

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