Frankentoria?

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Author Message   Rockinbilly Username: Rockinbilly Registered: 7-2007 Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:01 pm:    Hi folks, about 20 years ago I bought my blonde Antoria ES175 looky likey semi. Its appearance and sound is perfect for my Rockabilly music. When I say its a Antoria that may not be quite right because when I look inside, the label says Ibanez 2355M. My question is; should I book a round the world cruise and order a '59 Cadillac because I've got a really rare, expensive one-off guitar or...er....not? The sticker/decal on the back of the headstock says Super 70's. Any info on my guitar will be very welcome. Thanks folks, Rockin Best Wishes, Billy Gibbons. (Not the famous Billy Gibbons whos out of ZZTop with a beard and a who's a great guitarist, Im the Billy Gibbons who's not famous, not out of ZZTop, beardless and not a very good guitarist)   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:11 pm:    Pics, please   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:27 pm:    Antoria was a brand used by Hoshino (the distributor of Ibanez-branded guitars) in the UK. I can see how the guitar would have had an Ibanez label inside it.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 3:11 pm:    I have a unopened bottle of Palm Beer (Belgian) with a 7-UP cap. Wanna trade? (Just kidding) In collections of natural object like shells we call such phenomenons hybrids or freaks. If we would do this for man-made objects, this would be an Antoria-Ibanez hybrid, an Antoriafreak or an Ibanezfreak. (That name has already been taken and it is not what we would want, because it encourages employees to make production errors.) It's funny that a 2355M with Bradley logos sold for so much less than an Ibanez 2355M, and that a mix of Antoria headstock inlay and Ibanez label would probably result in a more valuable guitar for collectors. But the difference won't be that big I guess, maybe a few hundred $$ extra. But that's just MY opinion, because I look more at the quality of an instrument. I we would start paying excessively more for such a hybrid, people could start switching labels from pre-serial# guitars, because they would create TWO hybrids in each switch. So if each switch would be worth $2000.- we would create an industry of label switching. An undesirable development in my opinion. So, I'd say: the value of a good Ibanez 2355M + perhaps $250.- extra. Not enough for a Coup de Ville I guess. Ginger   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 1:14 pm:    Billy: Let me get this straight. You have a 2355M that has "Antoria" on the headstock, but the label inside says "Ibanez"? While the two brand names have been "associated" with each other in the past, there's never been a connection this close. We'd really love to see detailed pictures of this baby. Got any you could share?   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 2:23 pm:    I should correct what I said about Antoria/Ibanez. There are posts elsewhere on this site (what a site, huh!!!) that imply that Antoria was a brand used by a UK company, but that sourced its guitars from the same factory that Hoshino used for its Ibanez brand. I've seen a few exact duplicates of Antoria/Ibanez guitars, the most notable being the Custom Agent. As Johns says, this would be a very cool piece of evidence to support the same factory scenario. It might also go to imply that the Antoria brand was really associated with Hoshino. Cool.   Rockinbilly Username: Rockinbilly Registered: 7-2007 Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 3:23 pm:    Hi all and thanks for the feedback. I'd love to put some photos of my guitar on here but Ive only just learned how to type! I'll try and get someone else to help me with it. Johns; yes thats correct, Antoria on the headstock and Ibanez on the label inside. So, I'll try and sort some photos out and in the meantime, thanks again for your messages. Billy.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 3:42 pm:    Billy: Chucke99 has the connection correct and understands how cool this bit of "evidence" would be. If you have the image files, but don't have the hang of putting into your message, you can send them to me as an email attachment and I'll get them on the board.   Harry Username: Harry Registered: 3-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 5:35 am:    CSI, department ICW, is getting close to the definite proof....   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:25 pm:    Check out the pictures that RockinBilly sent me. They are in this thread: Other Replicas » Antoria and Ibanez: The Missing Link????   Rockinbilly Username: Rockinbilly Registered: 7-2007 Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 2:23 am:    Hi Folks, thanks for the messages about my Antoria/Ibanez semi. I was wondering if you could tell me how rare(if it is rare at all that is)is my guitar, how many, roughly, were made and, this may be difficult without seeing it in the flesh, what sort of money it may be worth, as I was maybe thinking of selling it.....perhaps? Its got a couple of Rockabilly battle scars, nothing too drastic though, its had a Bigsby fitted years ago (Ive still got the original tailpiece)and no scratchplate. As always, any help will be very welcome. Thanks again everyone, Best Wishes, Billy   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:42 am:    The guitar in itself is NOT VERY rare. But the combination of Antoria headstock inlay and the Ibanez label probably is... like the 7-up cap on the Palm beer, or a green Bavaria cap on a Fustus alcohol free malt beer. Probably a practical joke by some of the employees. Until about March 2006 or so Russellw kept a database with all pre-1981 Vintage Ibanez guitars sold on eBay. There were LOTS of 2355 guitars, and among them several 2355m flamed maple blondes. What's difficult, is to find a MINTY one. I have got one POST-lawsuit (1976 with Guild tulip headstock) and Harry, Tristan and I have been simultaneously hunting a lawsuit with a Gibson open book headstock. THAT ONE, which was REALLY MINT, went for 1110 EUR, which is between 1400 and 1500 DOLLARS. AND there is an estimate on the ARGUS list for these MINTY ones of 1670 EUR. But that has never been paid on eBay to my knowledge. It is probably what you should insure it for or what you pay at the dealer's . Russellw's database (not up-to-date): Model No. Description Year Price Condition 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1980 850 8 2355 ES175 Copy (NT) 197x 904 9 2355 ES175 Copy 1977 1000 9 2355 ES175 Copy 197x 1152 9 2355 ES175 Copy (NT) 1975 860 8 2355 ES175 Copy (CS) 1978 775 9 2355 ES175 Copy (CS) 1979 703 8 2355 ES175 Copy (CS) 1981 900 9 2355 ES175 Copy (NT) 1976 960 8 2355 ES175 Copy (NT) 19xx 550 9 2355 ES175 Copy (NT) 1975 1150 10 2355 ES175 Copy (AV) 1979 1304 9 2355 ES175 Copy (TB) 1976 825 9 2355 ES175 Copy (CS) 1977 856 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 808 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 900 8 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1976 1188 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1978 1250 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 197x 1095 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 1120 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 910 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 1211 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 866 8 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 197x 916 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 197x 1188 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 197x 953 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1981 680 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1987 870 8 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 19xx 1184 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1978 910 8 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1977 860 8 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1979 1086 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1975 1050 9 2355 ES175 Copy (FA100) 1981 975 8 The FA100's don't count, actually You should look at the colour NT (natural). Here is the link, were you can fill in type numbers and press the <enter> button: http://www.fordforums.com.au/guitar/resultsguitar2 .php I have put my pickguard on the scanner for one of our members (wasn't you, was it?). It's on my other computer. I could mail the real size result to you, so that you can make one. Another possibility is buying one at www.backandforth.nl for 11.50 EUR (4-PLY black ES-175) http://www.backandforth.nl/scratchplates.html It's part number E-1-4B. And actually you need what Johns called a hotrod bracket, which looks a lot like the mandolin bracket with the plexiglass block. From Gibson they're quite expensive. I saw them in an eBay shop: http://stores.ebay.com/GUITAR-PARTS-RESOURCE-LLC_W 0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d999QQftidZ2QQtZkm They were over $16.- but I don't see them any more. Hmm... pity... Ginger   Rockinbilly Username: Rockinbilly Registered: 7-2007 Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 4:18 am:    Hi all, I am thinking about selling my 2335m "missing link" semi, I thought I would let you guys know first before I advertised her. I am open to offers at the moment, I live in the UK in South Cheshire.Thanks, Billy.

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