AS120 question(s)

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Author Message   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 6:08 am:    Was Artstar AS120 made in AS colour/finish only in 2003 (AS - Antique Sunburst)? Before that TR and white? What was its price in 2003 (in Europe)? It looks like a decent semihollow after it got Super 58s (Super 50s in its early years). Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 1:25 pm:    €1025.- in 2002 case included (source Musik Produktiv catalogue 2002). The white ones were typical for the early ones made by Samick, and particularly for the USA. The colour Translucent Red was also typical for the USA, but later (Cort production). My 1997 Artstar AS120 is a Sunburst. It's a beautiful and good guitar. No problems. Ginger   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 5:07 pm:    An AS120 was for sale here for a reasonable price (450€ with case) and was sold at once yesterday. At least the ad was gone today and I didn't get reply to my email (asked more pics and info). It looked like the AS120AS in 2003 catalog at ibanez.ru. I didn't find AS or other sunburst AS120s in earlier catalogs. Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 6:07 pm:    In the German/European catalogues the colour BS is standard. That Russian site is quicker to handle, but as discussed before it's a rip site. The catalogues come partly from Harry's and Hasy's site and partly from Ibanezrules.com which is based on USA catalogues. But the USA and European catalogues are complementary. YOU NEED BOTH! http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/1997_gesamt.pdf http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/1998_gesamt.pdf http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/1999_gesamt.pdf http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/2000_gesamt.pdf http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/2001_electrics-compl ete-smallest.pdf to show some European examples. I prefer the sunburst version. Ginger   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 4:25 pm:    Sigh, I forgot that when it is about Ibanez you better double check. What is the difference between AS and BS finishes? Different name? Apparently AS120 is nice guitar - hunting goes on. Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 5:39 pm:    BS = Brown Sunburst AS = Amber Stain. I have seen an Amber Stain AS some time ago, at least that's what I think. It's a bit more honey than natural. It makes the scarf joint clearly visible. I don't mind that it is there, but it's not so clever to show it off. So that's one reason why I prefer the sunburst: then the joint is under the darker part of the finish. I'm in favour of environment friendly production methods. I you make necks with wide headstocks of one piece of maple, you need more maple for one neck. But I'm also in favour of aesthetic camouflage. What's also important for me, is that the colour of the AS200 in Europe is AV = Antique Violin and the colour of the AS180 is SBS = Stain Brown Sunburst. (I have seen white AS200 guitars in USA catalogues of the early '90s, and in that era they made the white AS120). So, if you choose a colour for your AS120, it's logical to pick the one that is as close as possible to the colour of the AS200. IMO that's NOT TR or AS, which were never standard on the AS200. The whole idea of the AS120 is: a cheaper (50%) Korean AS with the looks (colour, inlays and hardware) of the AS200. But that's my personal opinion about aesthetics. That does NOT mean that a red one for instance would be inferior. I've seen a red one on youtube with a really phenomenal sound (there was a movie in the ad). Good hunting, Juha! Ginger   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 6:45 pm:    AS120AS has Antique Sunburst finish according to the 2003 catalog at ibanez.ru and it looks almost same as BS (Brown Sunburst). http://www.ibanez.ru/info/catalog/2003m/33.jpg http://www.ibanez.ru/info/catalog/2003m/61.jpg TR - Transparent Red would also be OK (with Super 58s). White AS120s have Super 50s (if I remember it right) and are not as good players without waxpotting. Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:16 pm:    According to the 1997 catalogue AS means Amber Stain. Look at the last page of the 1997 link. I find it always difficult to keep those sunbursts apart. I see the difference between black and brown and between two-tone sunburst and three-tone sunburst, but whether something is antique sunburst, tobacco sunburst, brown sunburst, ice tea sunburst, antique violin or whatever fantasy name, I mostly can't tell... Yeah right, white ones from Korea (not the AS200) need a wax potting job or a pickup swap. In fact every AS80 or AS120 with Mickey Mouse ears AND an S-serial number. The ones with a C-serial number have Super 58's already. So, Wolf Ears are a safe buy, and on Mickey Mouse Ears you would have to check the serial number. Ginger   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 5:36 am:    Hi all, I have an AS103AS(Antique Sunburst, the Japanese catalog said) made in Korea purchased in 2004 spring. The guitar photo and its serial number(02129129 ?) are as follows, In my opinion, BS in the European catalog and AS in the Japanese catalog are both same color. Of course its sound is very nice. Wombat from Japan   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 6:32 am:    That's December 2002 (made by Cort, Korea of course). That Quik Change II tailpiece is NOT original for the AS120, that's an upgrade, actually an AS200 part. I have considered that too. Ginger   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 6:55 am:    Thank you Ginger, My AS103 was a new one on the wall of a Japanese guitar shop. The shop staff said my AS103 model had already out-dated from the Ibanez catalog 2004, and my guitar was remained as an unsold stuff of a special sale. Of course no change is made since then. So, I have no idea for its tailpiece. Wombat   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 6:57 am:    Sorry all, The guitar model is NOT AS103 but AS120. Wombat   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 7:23 am:    Well, the Quik Change II is better available in Japan, since it is a Gotoh part and standard on MIJ artists. So, I think Hoshino replaced the original Korean tailpiece (LP shape), when the AS120 came in from Korea. What they didn't do, is send these Quik Change II pieces to Korea, as far as I know (too expensive). Ginger   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 8:40 am:    Wombat, Do I remember it right: you have also AS103SM-NT? How different or similar your AS103 and AS120 are? Juha   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 11:23 am:    Dear Talajuha, Yes, I have both ones. The most different point is the neck of both. AS103 has a five-piece neck of maple and bubinga, while AS120 has a single maple neck but jointed below the head. The body size, the PUs or the electric circuits seems to me almost the same except the output socket positions. However, I am putting the two guitars on separate places for certain reasons. So, could you wait until comparing two guitars on sounds. Wombat   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 6:04 pm:    I knew the technical specs of both and that kind of differences. Does AS120 have a sustainblock? That's one thing I don't remember I have seen in catalogs. I tried to ask about the sound. Juha   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 9:17 pm:    Talajuha I have no idea for the sustainblock. What are the shape,size,material and Where does it build in? Wombat   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 7:20 am:    Here you can see the sustain block, scroll down "ANTI-FEED BACK BLOCK FOR MAXIMUM SUSTAIN" http://www.ibanez.ru/info/catalog/1980/01.jpg If you look through the f-hole you can see it, or touch and feel with your finger. Probably also AS120 has it as most semihollows. Then the sound comparison between AS103 and AS120, please. Juha   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 7:11 am:    Not rated very high... ??? Ebay Item #250184633403 Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 9:30 pm:    Compare: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS120+Artstar/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS180+Artstar/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS200/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS193/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS103+NT/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS80/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS83/10/1 http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/ product/Ibanez/AS73/10/1 And you will see that a second hand AS120 offers you more quality than the AS80, AS83 and AS73. The second hand price is often relatively low, although it was a 1025 Euro guitar in 2002 (case included). That's an example of Korea-biased collectors behaviour. If undamaged, a second hand guitar is worth certainly 50% of its latest list price (about 935 EURO without the case), unless it has proven to be an unsuccessful model. This model however was VERY successful in its performance! So 66.7% is still a fair price! Setting a reserve was a wise decision. Ginger   Wombat Username: Wombat Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 8:18 am:    Hi all, This weekend, I examined my AS120(2002,Korean made) and AS103SM to compare their sounds and equipments. The sounds are some what different as connect to Marshall VS30R clean channel. The AS120's sound is more soft and warm rather than AS103SM. May be looks like gibson ES335. I have two different ideas for the results. First, fot the AS103SM, after it buys, this does not spend the time for aging so much. Second, in my thought, the pick ups might be different between two models, because the level of sound seems to me a little bit large in the case of AS120 instead of the same condition. Unfortunately, my email for this investigation to Hoshino Gakki staff has no reply since then. And the sustain blocks as Talajuha said are found in both, they seems to me three laminated maple or spruce cores judging from their color and texture. Anyway, both sounds are clear and comfortable for me. Wombat   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 4:41 pm:    I think that the warmer sound of the AS120 is because it has AlNiCo Super 58 pickups, not ceramic Custom Super 58 pickups. I have ceramic humbuckers in my '80s Yamaha SG-400, and I can't say that they have mellowed, but then again, I have no recordings to compare... But I know that AlNiCo pickups are generally more mellow than ceramic pickups. Btw, the info that the Custom Super 58's is second hand (Ibanezfreak1960), I assume that he checked with the distributor in the USA. Ginger

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