Put Seth Lovers on my artcore AK-85!!!

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Author Message Zhen Username: Zhen Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 7:48 am:    oh man... I'm totally down with the tone!!!!!!!! man, it's killer!!! ACH-1 sounded more like early Benson, muddy everywhere - in the lows, in the highs, in the mids... but this thing ... IT'S SO FREAKIN CLEAN!!! now the tone's really CLEAN&PUNCHY, like our day's Benson! roll off the tone knob to 0 and now you sound like Metheny, don't plug into the amp, play straight in line ! oh... now I love my tone much more! thanks to Seth Lover (btw there's his authograph on the back of the pickup written with a pen!!!) for inventing such a great pickup! Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 12:13 pm:    I have Seth Lovers on my PM20. It's a great pick up for Jazz. Nothing wrong with a stock super58! I just having fun modifying and improving. With Ebony bridge piece and D'Aquisto style tail piece. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 4:02 pm:    I once had a AF85VLS with the ACH-1 pickups. I personally did not like the tone - the neck pickup sounded a little honky and shrill. I replaced it with a Seymour Duncan Classic 59. Recently, I replaced the stock p/u on my Epiphone Zephyr Regent for the same reason, but in this case with a SD Seth Lover. I really like the sound of the Seth Lover a lot. Very clean sounding, with a nice balance of darkness and clarity. Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 5:46 am:    I GOT CLASSIC 59(NECK) & jb(BRIDGE)on my JSM. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 2:28 pm:    Anyone try DiMarzio PAF Classics? I have them on 2 guitars now - love 'em. The SD 59 is a little bright for me. I still need to try the Seths. -Sven Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:34 pm:    Just dropped a couple Alnico2 HighOrder 'buckers in my Ibanez LP and the tone is nothing short of heaven. Jeff (Mr. HighOrder) hand winds his pickups by hand. Windings, magnets, coil colors, pole pieces - all based on your personal request. I'm considering getting a pair for my AF75. Seriously, check out these pickups - they're without a doubt the best humbuckers I've ever heard, custom made for me, and cheaper than most production line 'buckers. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:37 pm:    "Hand winds his pickups by hand" ...is there another way to hand wind a pickup? Sorry about the grammer. Got distracted while typing. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 4:43 pm:    Craig, How does that work? Do you describe the output and tonal properties? -Sven Zhen Username: Zhen Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 1:36 am:    Funkie, I think Seth Lover is kinda too bright for ya, though it's enough bassy and fat... but you can always roll off the tone knob. I usually play with the tone at five or six - that's not too bright. If you're into the late Benson's tone - SH-55's are for ya. Zhen Username: Zhen Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 1:41 am:    oh... and I forgot to mension, that SH-55 is a fairly warm pickup, the warmest of all the Seymour Duncan humbucker-line... Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:47 am:    Warmer than the Custom Custom? I know it's apples and oranges, because it has nearly twice the resistance, but the SH-11 is really warm. Haven't tried it in the neck position yet. -Sven (funkLe) Zhen Username: Zhen Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:31 am:    a guy, that sells Seymours in our area is a friend of mine... and he tried all the Seymours. it was he who adviced me the SH-55, he said it was the best jazz pickup he has ever heard (and believe me, he heard A LOT) and the warmest of all the Seymour Duncan's. oh my bad, Sven! I thaught it was 'i' in your nickname.. sorry Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 8:42 am:    Sven, to answer your question about ordering custom wound pickups from HighOrder... First, it helps to know what kind of tone you're looking for. It also helps to know how different magnets and windings affect the tone, but it's not mandatory. I emailed Jeff at HighOrder and described the guitar the pickups would be going in (including the body and neck woods). Then I told him I was after a classic humbucker sound - nothing too off the wall. Told him I wanted the bridge humbucker to sound like (someone singing) "Aaaah" and the neck humbucker to sound like "Ooooo". I know, Jeff probably thinks I'm strange. Anyway, I was thinking Alnico 3 for the magnets and Jeff recommended Alnico 2. After hearing the technical details, I agreed. My bridge pickup has similar specs to Seymour's Pearly Gates bridge humbucker. My neck pickup has a bit more windings that a Pearly Gates neck humbucker. Each pickup gives my guitar a distinct voice, not too bright, never muddy, and immense harmonics, crunch, clarity and sustain. I chose double-black coils, one coil with slugs and the other with screws (classic humbucker) but you can order them any way you wish. Considering that Seymour charges $150 for a hand wound humbucker (limited editions), and Jeff charges $55 (plus shipping using PayPal, $50 plus shipping for a money order). Jeff's cost only covers his materials and lets him experiment with various windings, magnets, etc. I'd heard many people on many forums rave about his pickups as being better than Duncans, DiMarzios, Voodoos, etc. So, for the price, I thought I'd give them a try and I'm so happy I did. Give his site a look... HighOrder Pickups Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:05 pm:    That sounds like an intriguing idea. I've found that the biggest problems with selecting pickups are that they can't be accurately described (or we all hear them differently), and the the final sound is a result of many things, besides the PUs themselves. The thing I like about choosing from a DiMarzio or SD is that they each have a very large selection of easy to get pickups. I like that I can try them all out, and sell of the ones I don't like. If you buy a custom made pickup, I imagine you're stuck with the PU if what you had in mind didn't match what you got. It would be great if you could go through 10 prototypes! I really enjoyed the tracks by Kevin Schafer at HighOrder. Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:08 pm:    Seth Lover Model™ see | hear | specs | dimensions SH-55 -- The SH-55 was designed jointly by Seymour and humbucker inventor Seth Lover. Just like the original 1955 P.A.F.s, the SH-55 utilizes a nickel silver bottom plate, butyrate plastic bobbins; plain enamel wire, an Alnico bar magnet, a wooden spacer, and black paper tape. The SH-55 uses a nickel silver cover instead of brass, which magnetically eliminates too much of the pickup's natural high-end tone. To be completely true to the original design and tone, the pickup is not wax potted. The tone is vintage P.A.F. The neck pickup will warm up even the coldest guitar. And the unpotted covers give the bridge pickup just enough boldness to break up early and really cut. Also available with a gold-plated cover. Single conductor cable standard. Four conductor cable available upon request Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 12:53 pm:    Sven, I agree that Seymour has a great selection - far more than any other manufacturer. Trying out a bunch of different pickups is also a benefit. My major complaint with the big pickup companies is trying to select just one perfect pickup - reading the catalog, they all sound like the perfect pickup. I wish Seymour, DiMarzio, etc. would give better descriptions of tonal character. Do you agree? I've also heard of some HighOrder pickup customers ordering extra (different) magnets along with their pickups, so they could do some magnet swapping to see which they liked best. Another cool idea, eh? Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:37 am:    Seymour Duncan has the customer service which you can ask characteristic of each pick ups, their suggestion of chosing pick ups to your needs and guitar based on their tons of experiments and customer feed back. My case was PM. Their suggestion were Seth lover(crystal clean) and alnico II pro(more definition and articulation,A la JIm Hall). I choose Seth Lover,although Alnico II pro was tempting,too. Semore Duncan 1800-738--6226 Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 2:08 am:    Craigjc and Eastmongo, My only issue with written descriptions and hotlines (and user reviews) is that they never capture the sound quality of the pickup. This is not the fault of the describer. For instance. lets say I describe the characteristics of the pickup I want to a salesman, but the salesman has a different understanding of my terminology, or what makes a pickup sound "good". And there might be things I like about pickups which I don't even know I like about them, let alone being able to formulate verbal descriptions of those traits. Then when I actually put the pickup into my guitar, it imparts it's character on the sound, then figure in my playing style and the amp and effects that I'm using. My point here is that descriptions can be a good way to get into the ballpark, but the only way to choose is by trial and error. Experiment with different pickups in different guitars. The first time I got burned by this was with the first aftermarket pickup I ever bought. I wanted a great fusion pickup, one that sounded like Allan Holdsworth. The salesman said without a doubt, I should get a JB! It is simply the best sounding pickup! then I wondered why my guitar sounded like an ice pick in the ear. With my more recent purchases, like the Custom Custom I just bought, I spent hours reading reviews at Harmony-Central, but none of the words I had read described the pickup as it sounded to me in my guitar. A few came close, many were opposite. My 2 cents -Sven Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 4:38 am:    I hear you. I have JB rear Pick up. I think JB is popular as the rear pick up but not front. Anyway, I always wander that if I get that instead of this.... At least, I can get idea of apporopriate selections by asking customer service. I don't make mistakes to get jazz pick ups or 59 for the archtop guitar. I agree that I need to try out several pick ups to get to the best one. I am thinking to get several pick ups for my each guitars and try out. When I have money.....someday I like JB (rear) on my JSM100m though... what I like about it is the output. It has high output to balance out volume with the front pick up. I felt stock super 58 wasn't loud enough against front. Also, rear JB sound more fatter than stock rear 58. I always feel bridge pick up doen't work for me much, but I can use bridge pick up a lot with JB. Anyway, choosing pick up is sensitive and not easy. I need to know more about pick ups. Did anyone try other pick ups on the arch top and semi hollow guitars? Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 7:43 am:    Speaking of Holdsworth, I have an old Duncan Holdsworth model pickup that I've never heard - it was donated to my business by a client. It has the usual 12 adjustable poles. No idea what magnet material was used, but the DC resistance is about 17k (HOT!). Anyone know what to expect from this 'bucker? Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:10 pm:    Eastmongo, Having said that pickup reviews can be misleading, I have to admit that I spend many hours reading them I like Dimarzio PAF Classics in semihollows. The bridge pickup in a semi-hollow sounds very Larry Carlton. Smooth with a woody crunch. The neck in similar to Super 58s, but with more note separation and definition. And a little more "3D" character. They turned my Dillion dr450 into a tone monster, and improved the sound of my AM200. Craig, I have not heard the Holdsworth. The SD description said it was dark and compressed. I've heard it described as having "sinister" sounding harmonic overtones Holdsworth plays with the treble and presence turned down all the way, so that probably takes care of any overtones. Jeff Miley uses a Holdsworth pickup, you may want to give these samples a listen. http://www.guitar9.com/liftoff.html -Sven Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 3:18 pm:    Funkel Now I want to try Dimagio PAF classic(bridge)...! I saw Larry Carlton a year ago.I was wandering why his bridge pick up is so powerful and loud... That was somthing I don't think I can do with stock 58.. He switch from neck pick up to bridge pick up in the middle of his solo to fuel the intensivness. The voulume gets louder and tone gets hotter(of Course). It seems like Larry's guitar is very easy to do pick up switching. Then I knew Scofield use his bridge pick up most of the time. That surprised me a lot. I always thought the people who use bridge pick up is some blues people(like Duanne Allman) and heavy rockers. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 4:08 pm:    I think bridge pickups sound horrible clean, and could not imagine using it this way. But with a good sounding overdrive, it comes to life. The tonality and harmonics just work well with overdrive. To me it is that singing vocal, or horn like sound that I love. Or a little classic crunch! I think that is what Sco is going for. If you listen to his tone, it is very similar to a tenor sax in timbre. It doesn't get lost like the dark jazz guitar guitar sound can - It's in your face! Like the great tenor players. He is using the instrument in a different way. The neck PU gets a little muddy for me with distortion, and I use it mostly clean. But you can get the classic "woman tone" using the neck humbucker with distortion. A strat neck PU sounds pretty good with distortion too. I think SRV did this, but I could be wrong... Sven Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 8:14 pm:    Ya It is interesting how Scofield use his guitar! Have anyone seen his latest DVD"live 3 ways"? \clipart He insanely adjust volume. Somtimes between every phrase like he need to have exact volume for the pfrase he is going to play. When he goes high position,he turn it up. When he goes back to middle position,turn it down. That makes so much sence. I started to undestand how he meant by" he learned how to play his AS200 over the years" .......! Bluepill Username: Bluepill Registered: 07-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 7:57 am:    i have a set of SD antiquitys that ive put into an ar305. i was told that they had a "more classic" tone over the seth lovers....mm i dont know if i like them as much as the seths (tried in a les paul custom shop). anybody used antiquitys in a solid body before??? i also have my tone pots on about 3-4 with the super 58's in my ar300 (2004), i think these pups are pretty nasty. i also dont really like the super70's in my ar100, there very dark ITS BLOODY HARD TO FIND THE RIGHT PUPS!!! Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 8:51 am:    There are so many factors involved that affect what we hear...I'm a tone junkie and I constantly tweak my gear. A graphic equalizer is probably the best and worst thing I've ever bought. Pickups are really hard to nail. To me, most humbuckers have too much pronounced midrange and can sound too nasal or too muddy. When I found the right humbucker, it was like a revelation. For me, there is definitely a formula in pickup construction that makes my ears happy. My basic pickup evaluation: 1. should sound good clean and overdriven 2. should not squeal 3. should be able to hear all notes of a chord equally (when pickup is properly adjusted). 4. should not sound like a wah left in one position. To me, this is not a rich-sounding pickup. 5. should match nicely with other pickups in guitar to give a variety of good tones. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:46 am:    Eastmongo, I have had the pleasure of seeing Scofield live about 10 times, and have witnessed his insessant knob tweaking. In one case, he had both PUs on, and was using both vol knobs to balance the output. Craig, Good pickup criteria. I am a tweaker too. I'm less specific about my requirements. If I run across something that works well with the personality of one of my guitars, I am happy with it. Each one has it's own personality, and if one has a unique voice, I like to let it come out. Recently I have really been liking the Ibanez V2 pickup. It sounds different in every guitar, and is hard to top. My new V1/V2 equipped SC1620 has a great voice, although it is a little concentrated in the upper mids. The clarity and articulation is amazing. This same pickup sounds so different in other guitars. I am currently experimenting with SD Custom Custom and Custom 5 pickups. Strats are a completely different animal. For strat pickups, I really love Kinmans. I just ordered some Dimarzio Virtual Vintage 2.2s. I have tried all the DiMarzio rail pickups, and don't care for them that much. In addition to swapping pickups, I have been playing with different speakers. -Sven Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 2:58 pm:    My favorite Strat pickup is the Ibanez Super Power 6. Believe it or not. Don't get me talking about speakers.... Eastmongo Username: Eastmongo Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:35 pm:    Seymour Duncan 50th Anniversary Limited Edition Seth Lover -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submitted at: 2:33, 4/2/2005 Product Info Pickup features: 50th Anniversary Engraved Seth Lover Limited Ed. set Impedence or other specs: Alnico II 8.52/7.48 Price Paid: US $300 Purchased from: Musician's Friend Instrument Model of guitar or bass: 2001 Gibson Les Paul Std. Premium Plus Position: all positions Pickup being replaced: Duncan CC/APII Other pickups on guitar: Artists using this pickup: You musical style(s): Blues, Songoriented Rock Reason for pickup change: Wanted the Custom Shop version of Seth Lovers Sound Perceived output level: If you're a fan of vintage PAF's, you owe it to yourself to buy this Limited Edition Seth Lover Commemorative Set. They are straight up vintage PAF's most likely wound on the original Leesona winder, which Seymour bought from Gibson. Maricella Juarez from the SD Custom Shop handwound these as a 50th Anniversary tribute to the man who invented the origianal Gibson PAF for early Les Pauls. Tone: These pickups are issued in Alnico 2 or 5. I'd tend to stick with the 2's, since that's the magnet most often associated with true PAF's. The tone is vintage, yet punchy and defined enough to sound great on clean, midgain, and highgain. Sonic evaluation: For humbucking guitars, I'm basically a purist who stays with Les Pauls, and also PRS McCarty Models. My regular pickups are usually Custom 5's, Custom Customs, Seths, 59's, Fralins and Holmes. This new set is a commemorative Limited Edition, which are basically Custom Shop Seth Lovers, wound my Maricella Juarez, with nickel covers, engraved and signed by Seymour Duncan. They're available through Musician's Friend, which there's a bit of controversy over, but let's get real.....if you're here researching these, you're a fan of authentic PAF tone. That means you either own a real set of vintage PAF's, a boutique copy, SD Seth Lovers or 59's, or you're ready to pull the trigger on the set that would make the late Seth Lover proud. I'd suggest you do it, especially on the A2 set. The sound of these are exquisite! The best way they can be described is by saying they're a cross between regular production Seth's and 59's. That means they're tighter, punchier, clearer versions of a Seth Lover humbucker. Seths and 59's have a resistance of 8.1/7.2, but these offer more clarity and output, coming in at 8.52/7.48. The bridge can best be described as Van Halen I&II. The neck, is a very warm and articulate, sustaining, smooth Allman type vibe. I'll put it this way.....your $300 ain't wasted!!! Plus, the beautiful covers are nicely engraved with "50th Anniversary 1955-2005. For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: I play everything from Blues to Modern Rock, and these pickups will do it all, depending on what amp they're run through. I use a Bogner Ecstasy halfstack or Matchless Chieftain 2-12 combo. I mainly use Fender strats with Duncan Surfers, Fat 50's, or Chubtone 63's. For humbuckers, I use the best Duncan has to offer, Fralins, Holmes, or custom rewinds. My rig can be seen at www.bluestheater.net/gearjoneser.html Overall Rating Comments: I'm a fan of quality, no matter what timeless company produces it. I play live, do LA session work, and am a historian of all things guitar related. When it comes to tone, I don't settle for second best, I go straight to the good stuff with blinders on. Duncan has offered a Custom Shop engraved set, which blows other PAF wannabees outta the water. I went straight to them, and am fully satisfied with what I consider a bargain. Seth Lover passed away in 1997, after affiliating himself with his friend Seymour in 1994. If you know tone, know pickups, and realize that sets like this don't come along often, you'll jump on this commemorative set. It's that simple. On a scale of 1 to 10, I give this pickup a: 10 Fantastic value

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