Guitar recommendation please

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Author Message Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:08 pm:    Hi, I am looking for a Jazz guitar, even though I have narrowed down to Ibanez, still so many models to choose from. I am interested in AF85, AK85, AF105 or non-Ibanez as Epiphone Sheraton II. If any of you have played or own one of these, please share your opinions. Thank you very much Stugotts Username: Stugotts Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:38 pm:    Hey Jazzmenco, I know everyone has their own tastes,but when I was looking for a jazz box, I tried many guitars. When I played the AF85VLS, that did it for me, no other guitar was better at anywhere near the price ! I have not changed the pups, I did change the strings from the 9s that came on it to, 12-52 /chromes. I do not know how you could do better that Ibanez. Stu Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 2:24 pm:    I owned an AF85VLS for about a year. I agree with Stu - it's a great guitar, especially considering the price. I did change the pickups to Seymour Duncan Classic 59's. Personally, I did not like the stock p/u's but I'm not complaining. I paid $379 for my AF85VLS and the stock p/u's were more than adequate for a guitar in that price range. Plus, the neck setup very nicely, tuners were decent (not great but decent). Of the guitars you mentioned above, I personally would select the AF105 (with either p/u configuration). It has a superb neck. Good luck and interested to know what you end up with. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 3:08 pm:    I got a AF105NT on the way. It should be here in October. I already have an AF85VLS. I like the neck pup on it but the bridge is to bright sounding for my taste. But the 105 has custom 58's so it should be a step up from the 85. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 3:25 pm:    Thanks everyone. I heard from a store saleman that AF85 (maple top) sounds warmer than AK85 (spruce top), other than that they are the same. But he doesn't have both of them in the store. Would be nice to know how AF105 compares to AF85, once Ibanezfreak1960 get it. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 3:27 pm:    I have an AF75. I know it's not on your list, but I got a great, brand new guitar for (shhh) $269. Replaced the magnets in the pups with Alnico2 for $8 per magnet. What I have now is a great sounding and playing guitar for well under $300 (not including tax and harshell case). If you're considering an AF105, then you're not on a real tight budget. I say buy it immediately. Just thinking about the AF105 makes me drool. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 5:10 pm:    Hi Craig, actually I am on very tight budget, but from reading other posts, it seems that many people changed pup on the AF85 or AK85 sooner or later. So I am thinking, if I could stretch out $200 more, I could get the AF105 and done wiht it. But I wonder if it worths it. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 6:18 pm:    "So I am thinking, if I could stretch out $200 more, I could get the AF105 and done wiht it. But I wonder if it worths it." - Jazzmenco I have purchased many guitars over the past 30 years, some while I was a starving student. Throughout every guitar acquisition, I have never once said, "Darn, I sure wish I would have gotten the cheaper model." Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 6:32 pm:    Jazzmenco, The "spruce top" and "maple top" specs are kind of arbitraty, because they all have laminated tops, and the spruce or maple is just thin veneer, which affects appearance only. The neck material plays a bigger part in the sound. The artcore necks are mahogany, maple, or a lamination of the two, depending on the year and model. For what it's worth, I think the AG body style has by far the warmest tone out of the 3 available hollow body styles. So don't rule it out. If you are willing double the ante and spring for the AF105, I would HIGHLY recommend considering tracking down an AF195 or AG195 for roughly the same price. The necks are made in Japan, and they come with Japanese Super 58 pickups. The AF105 is nice, but the 195 is in a different league. -Sven Stugotts Username: Stugotts Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 9:20 pm:    I can't disagree with anything said here about Ibanez guitars. Again it comes down to taste, I tried the AK85, and for some reason I just liked the AF85 better. I did not find a AF105 in my search, but it looks like an upgraded version of the Artcores. In the Artcore price range they kick anything else off the porch!! Stu Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 10:36 am:    "If you are willing double the ante and spring for the AF105, I would HIGHLY recommend considering tracking down an AF195 or AG195 for roughly the same price. The necks are made in Japan, and they come with Japanese Super 58 pickups. The AF105 is nice, but the 195 is in a different league." - Sven I echo Sven's comments whole heartedly. There is still at least one e-tailer selling the AF195 and AG195 at a few dollars less than the AF105. I was so pleased with the Super 58 pickups that came on my AG195 that I ended up not installing the SD Seth Lovers I had originally purchased to replace them. Further more, I like the neck so much, I am asking the person who is building my next guitar to copy the shape. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 1:19 pm:    Depends on what you are paying for the AF105NT. I am paying less then 450.00 US dollars. Now if anyone has a 195 for that price let me know and I'll buy it today! Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 10:52 am:    Sven, Thanks for the advice on AG195, this is where I am confused, Ibanez seems to have so many models AG, AF, AK, what is the real difference? Even if I can find 195, but AG or AF? Ibanezfreak1960, where can you get 105NT for $450? That's a great price. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 11:32 am:    Jazzmenco that price is only available for employees of Hoshino not the genral public. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 3:38 pm:    Jazzmenco, AF, AG and AK are different body shapes. The number is the level of finish: 75/73 is basic, dot inlays etc. 85 is block inlay and figured wood. 105 is even higher "custom" line. Most of the artcores are very similar in construction, differing mostly in flashiness. The AF105 supposedly has more attention to detail on the neck etc. The one I played was nice but there was not a huge difference. These are all made in China in a modern facility. Despite their bang for the buck, they are still entry level guitars, that with some attention and upgrades could compete with higher end guitars. The 195/193 series is part of an experiment called "Artcore United" that only lasted for a year. The bodies were made in the chinese facility, then shipped to Japan where the necks were fashioned and attached and finished. These are a very different animal than the other Artcores. They have a distinctly different feel. To me these guitars look and feel like $1000+ guitars from the Prestige and Signature lines. And they even include some prestige appointments, like wood PU surrounds, SureGrip knobs and a prestige manual - little details that make me feel warm and fuzzy. Check this link: http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM04/Content/Ibanez/PR/Artcore-United.html There are still some new ones around. Do a google search. There is an AF195 at a local shop near me in Norther California. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 8:07 pm:    It looks like that baby has wood pup surrounds. I'd love to have one of those. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 7:33 pm:    Thanks Funkle, you description about these models really help. Which shop that has the AF195, do you know how much they sell for? You guys got me excited about the 195 model now... Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 1:30 am:    I don't think you'll be let down. B Street Music in San Mateo has one. I think they were asking $800 but are willing to deal. guitartrader.com has the AF195 and AG195 for $659. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 7:41 am:    Funkle that AS192AV looks tasty! Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 10:13 am:    Freak that AS does look nice. I'd like to put one up against an AS200. I think there was a typo, it is actually an AS193 as it says in the specs, not an AS192AV as listed under the photo. -Sven Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 10:15 am:    AF195AV AG195AV Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 12:03 pm:    no wonder I had trouble finding one when I did a search. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 2:13 am:    Finally I was able to compare AF105NT with AG195, sie by side at a store. When plug in, the AG195 sounds a bit warmer. But when unplugged, AF105NT sounds almost like an acoustic guitar while AG195 is somewhat dull and yet, both guitars are full hollow body, does anyone knows why? Would you pick AF105 because it can be played unplugged? Does AF105 have advantage when plug in an amplifier than AG195? I tried an AF195 from a friend, it sounds dead unplugged, but lively when plug in. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 10:22 am:    Wow, that's great you were able to play both guitars side-by-side. The AF105 may sound louder acoustically because the body is bigger than the AG195. Not sure if either has an advantage over the other when plugged in. I would guess the AG195 resists feedback but that is only a guess. You mentioned that the AF195 sounded dead. I wonder if that implies that AF195 and AG195 are braced differently. I would have guessed the AF195 and AF105 would sound very similar acoustically. Both bodies are constructed in China and I thought the body dimensions were the same. Does the AF105 that you tried have a floating pickup or humbucker? That would also affect the acoustic quality. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 10:54 am:    Wildfield, They have an AF105 and an AF195 at B Street Music. Jazz, Did the AF105 have round wounds on it? That could be the reason for the big difference in liveliness. The 195s come with flat wound strings, which have a darker, much less lively sound. Your friends AF195 might have even had dead strings - when flats die, they do so in a big way. Your observations are consistent with mine. The AG has a better plugged in sound - it is more "electric" - it gets it's dark singing sound and sustain from the pickups reacting with the small, stiff hollow body. The AF models have bigger bodies, and work more like an acoustic guitar. Which one is better is purely a matter of personal preference. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 11:34 am:    "Wildfield, They have an AF105 and an AF195 at B Street Music." - Funkle I'm looking for an excuse to buy the AF195 even though I don't need one. I'm so happy with my AG195 that I feel like running out to buy the AF195. But why? I almost feel like buying it, putting it in a nice case and leaving it under my bed - I'm sure I will find a use for it someday. Great comment regarding the round wounds vs. flat wounds - that could very well explain the difference in acoustic sound. I also think if the AF105 that Jazzmenco has tried is the one with floating p/u, it would give a more acoustic sound than the AG195 or AF195. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 12:28 pm:    The AF105 I tried was with 2 humbuckers, it sounds and plays like an acoustic. And yes, it has round wounds string. The AG195 and AF915 have flat wounds. Now I must clarify, the AF195 and the AG195 both sound very dull when unplugged, as compare to the AF105 or even AK85. What I meant dull, is you can hear the sound, but the tone is not as acoustic guitar. They do sound louder than semi-hollow, though. When plugged in, both the AF195 and AG195 sound very jazzy, the AG195 darker and sweeter, the AF195 a little punchier, the high note jump out as if the midrange tone control turn up. The AK85 is very different, it sounds warm (but not dark) and has good overtone of the acoustic. The AF105 is very nice but for a few dollars more, AF195 or AG195 are better feel. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 3:10 pm:    Jazz, your descriptions of the 3 guitars echo mine exactly. Wildfield, I know where you can get an AS193 Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 4:49 pm:    "Wildfield, I know where you can get an AS193" - Funkle Actually, I would be very interested in an AS193? Does B Street have one of those too??? Maybe I need to take a drive to San Mateo this weekend. Jazzmenco Username: Jazzmenco Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 1:40 am:    Thank you everyone for helping, this forum is great, I've learned alot. I've been playing AG195 and AF195 back and forth in the last few weeks, and I chose AF195, for the slightly more open sound, I guess due to the AF195's bigger body than AG195. It was a tough pick, I wish I could have both. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 11:29 am:    Jazzmenco, Congratulations! Sounds like you got a great axe. If you have time, please post a review of the guitar, once you've had a chance to play it more.

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