| Author |
Message |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 4:53 pm: | |
hi, having been a L5 player since '82, playing straight ahead jazz in small settings (duo/trio/quartet), i finally decided to look for a lighter and more comfortable guitar, hopefully without having to sacrifice too much sound. having heard rumours of decreasing quality on Ibanez instruments built in certain periods, i would like to inquire about the current state. at the moment i own a bunch of gibsons, a 1970 L5, a 2003 L5, a 1953 L7 and a 1979 ES 335 Pro, each with it's own personality and feel...........
here my questions:
- does it make sense to buy a brand new GB 10 or is it more reasonable to go for a older model because of better quality/sound reasons?
- are there certain GB 10-specific things to watch for?
- are there any shortcomings in this instrument?
TIA
jazznote |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 5:49 pm: | |
Hi Jazznote,
I probably can't answer your first 2 questions, and I am by far not an expert on Ibanez guitars or the GB models. I did own a GB100 which is very similar to the GB10. Differences being a 1/2 inch deeper body, laminated maple top and some aesthetic features (abalone binding, abalone fretboard inlay, etc).
One thing I noticed about the GB which might loosely fall under your shortcomings bullet is that the sound of the GB was much different than other full archtops with a PAF humbucker such as the L5. That is not necessarily a shortcoming unless you are looking for a guitar that sounds like your L5 but is lighter and smaller.
The floating mini humbuckers on the GB is much different sounding than the classic PAF. It is clearer, with more punch (or pop as I like to describe it). Although the GB is not overly bright, it is certainly brighter than other full archtops I have had with top mounted PAF pickups.
Currently, I have an AG195 which has dimensions very similar to the GB100 - 2-3/4" depth (at rim), 14.5" lower bout, laminated maple top, back and sides. The major difference in terms of sound is that the AG195 has top mounted humbuckers - Ibanez Super 58's - which are a PAF style humbucker. It is a very dark, full sounding pickup and probably more in the ballpark of your L5. I'm not saying that my AG195 is an L5. I'm sure it's no L5. However, it has that dark, warm, full sound you'd expect from a full archtop with PAF's.
As for fit and playability (which I know was not one of your bullets), the GB is a great guitar. Very confortable to hold and an excellent neck in my opinion. I don't know why more makers don't knock off this design.
Anyway, I'm not sure this information helps. Hope will get a chance to play a GB. They seem like great quality guitars.
Darryl |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 5:55 pm: | |
Jazznote~One of the great things about Ibanez's high end instruments, including GB10's, is the overall consistency of great quality over the years. On some of the very used ones, you may see deterioration/gassing of some of the plastic parts and corrosion of gold hardware and some cracks in binding. Look for cracks at the heel/neck joint, or signs of repair. Check for fret wear and scratchy pots as with any guitar. If the pickguard looks new and the gold plated pickups still shine on an older model, they may have been replaced. No big deal for a player, but some people want 'all original' tarnish and all. Look for loose or stripped screws on the adjustable tailpiece tensioners. Note, all of these parts are available from Ibanez (or from some of the cool collectors at this forum!)
Be sure you are getting a 'Made in Japan' GB10 ('78 to present), and not the Korean made GB10JS. I forget the few years they were produced. The 'JS' or Jazz Standard model was sub-par in my opinion. You can tell them by the lack of a Benson signature engraved trussrod cover, single binding pickguard, and no litographed Benson signature inside the body cavity.
New GB10's from around 2000 forward, have the 'Prestige' moniker, indicating hand shaping/finishing of the neck and overall higher quality by a Japanese Team of luthiers.
I play and own a few Gibsons as well as a '79 and '97 GB10. The two GB's are almost identical, even though 18 years different in production dates!!
The Gibson's I've played showed extremely variable quality until the last few years. Ain't nothing wrong with their recent Historics (except excessive pricing), but they are not the same as a GB10. The GB's are incredible and unique instruments. Your chances of getting a good one is much greater than finding a dud...but I always recommend playing one first before buying if you can.
Good hunting! |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 8:05 am: | |
Darryl,
i think there's no typical L5 sound. the sound of the L5, to me seem to depend on the period it was manufactured. my 2003, built by james hatchkins of gibson has more clarity, sounds more percussive with a much brighter tone than my 1970 and the 1967 i once owned, but sold because of lacking thickness in the high register notes. actually, the 2003 sounds more like my 1953 acoustic L7 with a floating Bartolini pickup attached to the neck.
Jazznote |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 8:18 am: | |
Guitartim,
it's good to know about the consistency in the building of the GB10. i always used to buy second hand instruments, my 2003 L5 was the first brand new i bought and since then i like the idea of experiencing a guitar's development over the first years. however if i run into a older instrument i will check it out ....... thanks for the help.
Jazznote |
Prince_julian00
Username: Prince_julian00
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 9:20 am: | |
Guys, I would love to see some pics of all your GB models! |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 10:06 am: | |
Jazznote,
I'll second Derryl's comments on the GB10. They are very versatile guitars with an articulate and fairly bright sound.
If you want a warm dark sound with a compressed attack, ala Metheny, the AG195 is a great choice if you can find one. One of the nicest necks I have experienced. Ibanez was on a mission with this one. |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 11:11 am: | |
actually i also get interested in knowing more about the GB 20. Benson himself seems to use this for live gigs:
===> interviev in 2000
GB: I use the Ibanez GB20 and the GB12 guitars for live performances. The GB12 is just a beefed up version of the GB10; Ibanez refers to it as the anniversary model. These guitars are consistent and I always know what I'm going to get when I plug them in, I designed them that way! My amplifier setup is a Polytone run in series with a Fender DeVille. The Polytone has been one of my favorite amps since Breezin and the Fender has a very quick response which makes it perfect for the fast things I play. The combination of these two amps, with my Ibanez guitars, gives me just the sound I'm looking for in my live shows.
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/gbenson.htm |
Mrryte
Username: Mrryte
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 1:31 pm: | |
Have you also considered the Artcore AF105NT and AF105F?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=512494
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=512493 |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 1:43 pm: | |
i prefer the sound of carved spruce tops, so i never considered it an option.... |
Earle101
Username: Earle101
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 5:04 pm: | |
Jazznote: sounds like we are on the same page. I've always been a Gibson fan, but I have put my gibson L4 away since i got my BRAND NEW gb10 tobacco. I've played older gb10s and I don't see much difference in feel.i love this guitar. I have no problem with feed back anymore. The floating pups give a tone that is fat but cutting. Why would anyone want to cut holes in a carved top anyway? The craftsmanship is much better than gibson and it felt so very comfortable from the very first time playing it. I also use Polytone's. A 102,one 12 and 2 8inch) with a 12 inch minibrute biamped out the treble side. |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 5:47 pm: | |
Earle101,
how was the switch to the shorter scale fingerboard? i do not intend to totally abandon my L5, so this change might present a little problem. |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 7:30 pm: | |
Jazznote,
You mentioned carved spruce top in one of your posts in response to the AF105. It is true that the AF105 has a laminated (maple) top but I believe the GB10 also has a laminated (spruce) top. Maybe I misunderstood the the context in which carved spruced had been mentioned. |
Earle101
Username: Earle101
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:27 am: | |
Wildfield: The gb10 has a carved solid spruce top.
Jazznote: I dont know about the L5 dimensions as i've never had one of those beauties. The L4 has 20 frets and is 24 1/5 inch long. My gb10 has 22 frets and 25 inch long. Fretboard widths are the same. To be honest, i didn't notice the difference at all except one felt like a big Lincoln in my lap and the other like a new corvette. |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 4:17 am: | |
GB10 has carved top? |
Jazznote
Username: Jazznote
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 7:04 am: | |
the (new) GB 10's description says spruce top. i guess it must be a carved spruce top, never heard of laminated spruce. if somebody could check this on his GB 10 ........ TIA |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 7:19 am: | |
They used laminated spruce in some models...
I always though the AF200 had solid srpuce top, but have read in this forum that it is laminate. Also, the 2355 SB (ES175 SB copies) had spruce tops. I'm quite sure there are more spruce tops... Maybe the JP20?
F. |
Petruz
Username: Petruz
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:55 am: | |
hey guys, as far as i know the only carved top ibanezes were some late seventies FA models.
i'm pretty sure that GBs have laminated tops (wich is absolutely not a pity IMHO) except for the GB200 and the GB10Y2k. someone correct me if i'm wrong!
http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/6484/7098.html |
Earle101
Username: Earle101
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:57 am: | |
wildfield:
Re: spruce top
I apologize. I thought the gb10 had a carved solid spruce top. I believe now that it doesn't have a carved , nor solid, nor completely spruce.
http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/6484/6779.html?1089734262
Johns, is this true?
i like this guitar so much,I wouldn't care if it was made of cardboard. |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:17 am: | |
Earle:
That's what Jim Donahue says. So, I gotta say it's true. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:22 am: | |
One of the design objectives of the GB10 was to be feedback resistant at higher volumes. Hence a rigid laminated box was used.
Petruz is right about the carved top models. The GBs and a few of the FAs from the late '70s are the only carved top models I know of. |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 7:26 pm: | |
Although laminated plates are often snubbed by the acoustic flat top community, they have a solid (no pun intended) purpose in the world of amplified archtops. The ES-175 has probably been played by just about everyone in the jazz guitar world including Kenny Burrell, Pat Methany, Joe Pass, Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall, etc. D'Aquisto made several guitars with laminated plates. Sadowsky, Moll, Borys and the luthier from whom I ordered a guitar, Steve Holst all make nice, high quality guitars with laminated plates too. I recently played a new model from Benedetto that had a press formed laminated top plate and it had a fantastic acoustic quality as does the D'Aquisto Jim Hall. For myself, I much prefer laminated archtops over carved tops but it's probably because I do not play my archtop unplugged. |
Rguit
Username: Rguit
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 11:08 pm: | |
Its my understanding that all GB-10s have and always had laminated tops. They had some johnny smith copies and L5 copies from the 70's that were solid tops, one just sold on archtop.com and I missed it |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 9:20 am: | |
Watch this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7423801971&indexURL=0&photoDi splayType=2#ebayphotohosting
A real '78 ebony fretboard and signed!
Go for it, Goodasaf! |
Erudite1
Username: Erudite1
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 11:57 am: | |
Wow! $2026 for the '78 GB10! Sorry Goodasaf, that's inflation for you. If it helps at all the part about Benson's signature is 99.9% BS. I had emailed the seller this message yesterday:
"Hi. Beautiful guitar! I have #36 from 1978 the 1st year of issue.
For what it's worth George Benson didn't sign any of these. The
signatures are all printed onto the labels. See this Ibanez
Collectors thread:
http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/16/13025.html?1146411055
Still well worth the price. An awesome, beautifully crafted jazz
guitar from the Ibanez golden era. Best of luck on the auction."
He either didn't or couldn't post it. |
Goodasaf
Username: Goodasaf
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 12:58 pm: | |
i thought i'll change my sniper habit to find out the reserve first...
than i got sniped, i was ready up for 1500$ but 2026$????
i'll keep looking...
nice guitar though. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 3:23 pm: | |
If you look in this database
http://www.fordforums.com.au/guitar/resultsguitar2.php
$1500.= seems to be a fair price.
Model No. Description Year Price Condition
GB10 George Benson 1978 700 7
GB10 George Benson 1978 1276 9 (SB)
GB10 George Benson 1978 1500 9 (SB)
GB10 George Benson 1978 2006 9
GB10 George Benson 1979 1025 9
GB10 George Benson 1979 1396 9
GB10 George Benson 1980 1650 9
GB10 George Benson 1980 1295 9
GB10 George Benson 1981 1126 8 (SB)
GB10 George Benson 1985 1310 9 (NT)
GB10 George Benson 1985 1711 9
GB10 George Benson 198x 1899 9
There were two people who wanted to pay more than $2000.= and now there's still one left and that's Chas6. I guess, that when he has his GB10, $1,5xx.= can be enough again. You know now how far he will go. Wait until he's satisfied.
Don't make each other mad. The guy has only one pair of hands and so have you.
I don't agree that GB10s are rare. They have become expensive during the past decades. But they're even still in production.
They're classy ladies, which will go never out of style. Love their their tails.
Ginger Ale |
Goodasaf
Username: Goodasaf
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 10:44 am: | |
hi again!
managed to purchase this 1981 GB10
http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D230001659464 |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
Goodasaf,
Congratulations! I'll bet it will sound like a million bucks! Please give us a full report once you receive it. |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 1:55 pm: | |
Looks like the binding is pretty well disintegrated alot of the way. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 2:01 pm: | |
And you keep $700.= in your pocket!
I hope the bindings on the back is easy to fix and that you find an original bound tortoise pickguard, because this one is, not only deteriorated, as the ad says. I think it's not original.
As I understand it, you can use the 4 ply tortoise, that's material nr 41 for $39.=
http://pickguards.us/priceibanez.html
With a milling cutter they can give it a bound look. But perhaps you can find a genuine one...
Congratulations Goodasaf!
Ginger Ale |
Goodasaf
Username: Goodasaf
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 2:48 pm: | |
i noticed the pickguard and the bound, the bound is less bothering. i guess i'll get a new pickguard. my luthier says it's prety easy to change the binding (for him...) and that would be next.
anyway the guitar itsekf looks nice. |
Goodasaf
Username: Goodasaf
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:46 pm: | |
hi!
the guitar arrivd and it's fantastic!!!
now for the improvements - anybody knows a place i can call and order the original pickguard?
all the dealers in the area don't store them.
thanks
asaf |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 12:53 pm: | |
Goodasaf,
Congratulations. Glad you received it safely and it meets your expectation. One day I hope to stumble across a nice blonde GB10...hopefully I'll have some coin in my pocket when I stumble across her.
Good luck finding parts and let us know what you come up with. |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 4:02 pm: | |
Hey Wildfield,
Have a look at what I picked up late last year.
|
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 4:06 pm: | |
OOps, sorry,
This is my 79 GB, I am so happy that I bought it.
 |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 9:37 pm: | |
Wow!!! Gorgeous. Stunning. Nice find and congratulations. |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 8:50 am: | |
Goodasaf:
The good news is that you can order a new pickguard from Ibanez/Hoshino. They are NOT cheap. That's what I did.
However, there's also bad news for vintage GB10 owners. Over the years, they changed the shape and hole placement just enough that the guard doesn't fit right without some modification.
Good news: the new guard obviously fits the new GB10s fine. Bad news: I don't know where the cutoff point is for the older models that have the "fit" problem.
I'm working on downloadable templates of both guards. That way owners can see if their guitar is a good fit for the new guard. If you overlay the old with the new, you can also see what kind of modification you'll have to make to get the new one to fit properly. |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 8:58 am: | |
Johns do you have any pics of your GB10 with the new parts on it? |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 9:01 am: | |
Cmangeot:
Your GB10 looks like a beauty. Everybody loves these guitars. They are worth keeping in top shape because they are such fantastic players. It's really a testament to the design that it's specs have basically remained the same since it's introduction. That's what I'd call a "classic". |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 9:10 am: | |
I did have a gassing issue on the strap button and heel cap, I had a local luthier replace the cap and button, he even matched the clear to replicate the aging. It looks stunning. This guitar was a collectors, there is only one dent smaller than the head of a pin, and one scratch on the headstock, I am just really glad that a guitar from 1979 can be so appreciated that no one uses it, I can'e even bring myself to play it live. I am too afraid. |
Goodasaf
Username: Goodasaf
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 11:58 pm: | |
thanks alot johns and all others!!
i'll keep watching and wait for your downloadable modification help.
in the meantime i'm in the u.s. and don't have an amp here... |
Lb
Username: Lb
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:58 am: | |
I OWN A FEW GB'S. I JUST PICKED UP A 79 GB10BS.
BETWEEN THE 2OTH & 21ST FRET IT DOESNT SAY "GEORGE BENSON" IT HAS THE PEARL BAR BUT NO NAME. ANYBODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? |
Ibanez2460
Username: Ibanez2460
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 3:37 am: | |
hi, i read some of you use pollytone amps. I just got a couple older model mini-brutes. how do you guys set the settings.(bass,treble,reverb, brite/dark switch). i want to get a clear brite but still warm sound, kind of like grant green, george benson. |
Callistabb
Username: Callistabb
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 3:52 am: | |
Never heard of this when speaking about old GBs.
Have two GB10s from -79 one from -83 and a GB200 from -00. All GB10s have the GB inlay btw the 20th and 21st fret. The GB200 have not. Notice also that the number of frets changed around March -79 from 21 to 22.
Noticed in later catalogues, say from mid -90 and onwards, that the Japanese made GBs does not have the inlay anymore. The Koreans never had it.
 |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 5:50 am: | |
Ibanez2460,
I use the following settings on my Polytone 104 MaxiBrute:
Bass: 5
Treble: 4
Reverb: 5.5
Brite/Dark switch: Bright
But it's always a matter of personal taste.
Perhaps I coloured the sound more in the style of Hank B. Marvin, because I also play stratocasters.
I bought it for the warm sound and the good reverb, not to imitate George Benson.
Collecting jazz boxes came later.
Just try and find out whether you like it or not.
Ginger |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 1:36 pm: | |
LB:
Something is ringing a bell in my (mostly vacant) memory about at least one other GB10 not having the "GB" inlay.
I'll try to find the reference, or maybe it was a photo???. Sorry, I couldn't be more definitive. |
Lb
Username: Lb
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 10:56 am: | |
Where can I find the covers to pickups for a gb10? |