P-90s in a semi-hollow body?

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Author Message Writersf4011 Username: Writersf4011 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 6:23 pm:    Any idea what P-90s would sound like in my '81 AS-50? I had my hands on an old Les Paul with P90s recently and just couldn't believe how much better it sounded than the other guitars in the room, some of which were really impressive. I know they wouldn't be as hot as my Gibson PAFs, but what about the tone comparison? For that matter, maybe somebody out there who uses coil splitters on a semi-hollow can tell me what happens when you go single coil ? Many thanks - John Bluesmeister Username: Bluesmeister Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 9:35 pm:    The Epiphone Casino has P90s, they sound pretty good. Last year I was in a pub in the UK and there was a guy up on a small stage playing a Les Paul fitted with P90s and it sounded sooo nice. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 10:45 pm:    I have an Epi Dot Studio in shop now getting SD Phatcats installed. Will be able to answer your question in about 10 days. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 10:53 pm:    Oops, missed one of your questions that I could have provided some data for you -- I changed my Les Paul to SD Jazz/Custom 5 last year, and installed wiring and switch for parallel/single coil/series operation. In series, typical humbucker type sound. In parallel, tone becomes more articulate with a bit more airiness in treble. In single coil, the sound is less complex than humbucker (either mode) but more complex with more noticeable over/under tones in mid- and lower strings. Overall single coild sound is similar to Fender single coil but richer, not quite as twangy as a Strat, nowhere near as much twang as bridge pickup on a Tele, but more twang than a humbucker, not as loud as full humbucker modes. Kind of a cross between the Fender style single coil and a P-90. Very nice sound. I'm pleased enough with the sound that I now regret not putting the same wiring/switch into the neck pickup. Oh, well - leaves a project for next time. Writersf4011 Username: Writersf4011 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 11:50 pm:    Yeah, thanks guys for that. Bluesmeister, I didn't know the Casino had P90s. Sure sounded good when the Beatles played them. Gary, pls keep me posted on the SDs. Your description of the split humbucker as between a Fender single and a P90 sounds about what I'd have guessed, but I'm still surprised to hear someone who's tried it say so. Sounds really tempting, but of course that's on your LP. What amp do you play the Epi Dot thru? Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 10:14 am:    I've done all of the same wiring trickery (and more) that Garyelcrrt has done, and I agree with his analysis. I will say that the single coil tone can be very generic and lifeless sounding with some humbuckers. I currently have HighOrder Alnico 2 humbuckers in my Ibanez LesPaul(2350) and the single coil mode is the best I've heard to date. I was not happy with the single coil tone of half of a Super70. P-90s have qualities all their own. Different than half a humbucker, different from a Strat or Tele. They have a darker brightness (more chime, less ping) and a rounder bottom, and they seem to have more grit (not nasty, but warm and fuzzy). Very, very cool sound. I've played a friend's Casino and, although they're probably not the best P-90s, they are a great tone. I do not own a P-90 equipped guitar, and I'm starting to bum out about it. Thinking of converting my Talman (3 lipstick tubes) to a combination of lipstick tubes and P-90s just to have that P-90 tone. Heard the Seymour Phat Cats are close to the P-90 tone, but not exactly the same. Never tried them. I imagine they'll sound good enough to satisfy a P-90 craving. Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 4:11 pm:    Has anyone used P90's in an AM-50? Would it be easy to drop them in? mk Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2006 - 10:39 pm:    Aren't they dual coil design? If so, the Phatcats should be really close in tone but quiter because of the noise-cancelling effect of the 2nd coil. So it wouldn't sound EXACTLY like a P-90 anyway, but I've never lived with them before. Have a Blueshawk, so I know that I like the P-90 sound, and can't stand the excessive amounts of noise they make at times - for me, same thing with a lot of Fenders, and the reason I don't currently have even a copy of a Strat or Tele though GAS keeps telling me that I SHOULD have at least one. And anyway, Phatcats fit in a standard humbucker cutout, so I don't have to have any routing done. Truth is, that Beatles Casino sound (without the hum) is the sound I'm hoping to achieve here. The Dot Studio has always sounded better through my Marshall than either of the little practice amps (Fender, Vox) that I keep in various places. And, off topic, but it just occured to me. I'm a crusty old divorced bachelor who lives only for his own pleasure and I seem to have accumulated an amplifier in each room so that all I have to do is bring the guitar I want to play when I spend time in that particular room. Is that just eccentricity, or does everybody (anybody?) else do it, too? Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 2:27 am:    "'all I have to do is bring the guitar I want to play when I spend time in that particular room. Is that just eccentricity, or does everybody (anybody?) else do it, too?" Brilliant! Do you keep amps in the bathrooms too? I don't think that would fly with my wife. Have you considered a noiseless strat solution, like the new Suhr Backplate? http://online-discussion.com/Suhr/viewtopic.php?p=3448 Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:24 am:    "'all I have to do is bring the guitar I want to play when I spend time in that particular room. Is that just eccentricity, or does everybody (anybody?) else do it, too?" I have a battery-powered Roland Micro Cube that I drag everywhere. I'd be playing a lot less guitar without it. --- I've heard mixed reviews about humbucking P-90s. Same with Strats, etc. people generally say that you lose tone and character along with losing the noise. My opinion? Once you go Strat (er...Ibanez Strat) you never go back...and you learn to live with some noise. --- To answer Michael's question, standard P-90s will not drop into a humbucker-equipped guitar. They're wider than a 'bucker, even including the mounting rings. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:21 am:    "Once you go Strat (er...Ibanez Strat) you never go back...and you learn to live with some noise. " Why live with the noise when you can go noiseless with excellent solutions from Kinman and Suhr? Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:23 am:    "Brilliant! Do you keep amps in the bathrooms too? I don't think that would fly with my wife." No amp in the bathroom, Funkle - I considered it, but in the end decided to go acoustic only! Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 2:37 pm:    Gary, OK, here's my solution as an architect: the ultimate solution would be to have a studio with a cranked tube amp in it. Mike the amp, run it through a sound board and into a multi room sound system. You could use a wireless transmitter and walk around the house and have sound anywhere. Overkill? -Sven Munch Username: Munch Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 2:56 am:    Hi John, P90's on a hollow body? You're talking about the creme de la creme of old school jazz and rock'n'roll tone my friend!!!!! Can you say Kenny Burrell and Scotty Moore???? Hollowbodies with P90's are ground zero when it come to the birth of raunchy electric guitar. For modern examples try the Reverend Horton Heat and George Thorogood. (ES175 and ES125 respectively). Classic Gretsch sounds such as Duane Eddy's are achieved using a hollowbody with single coil De Armonds (similar to P90's but not quite the same). The only way to properly get those rockin' old school sounds is to grab a p90 loaded archtop and plug it into a dimed low wattage tube amp. The whole West Coast Jump Blues sound is based on P90 loaded archtops into overdriven tubes amps with lashings of outboard reverb. Try listening to Rick Holstrom, Kid Ramos, Little Charlie, and Hollywood Fats. Cheers, Mark Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:00 pm:    Funkle, maybe. Just a bit. Really just a skoshy bit. A mere touch. A bagatelle. Why not build an amp into the wall of each room, with a short-range receiver, and then you can have a different sound from each room as you walk about the house with your transmitter-equipped guitar! If you wire each receiver to an infrared sensor, the amp's signal/sound will turn on and off as you walkabout! Let's patent it! I'm sure some of the players out there would want to incorporate it into new housing construction. Slpraeg Username: Slpraeg Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:23 pm:    I have an AFS77T, an AFS75T and an AK75D that I am considering replacing the stock pickups, how difficult is this to do myself? It seems to me that the accessibility to the switch to desolder and rewire would be kind of tricky. Is this something best left to pro's? Anyone have any experience with GFS pickups? I was thinking of doing an overwound liverpool combo for the AFS77T, a Dearmond combo for the AFS75T, and a "Dream90" setup on the AK75D. Any thoughts, comments, advice? Simonarg Username: Simonarg Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:49 am:    Jim Hall use a ES 175 with a p90 in the 50īs and the sound its very sweet (besides HE IS THE MAN!) http://www.gould68.freeserve.co.uk/jimhall6.gif Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:14 pm:    Ahhh, dealers at the repair shop. Was supposed to be done today. Not. Guess I'll just have to crank up the Marshall and another guitar in protest. I understand I should get my new Phatcat-equipped guitar about the 21st. They think. Writersf4011 Username: Writersf4011 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:39 am:    Munch & Simonarg -- Thanks for directing me to those players. I couldn't stop myself from downloading Kenny Burrell's version of Stormy Monday and Hall's Concierto de Aranjuez from iTunes. I'm sure other P90-driven tunes will follow. John Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 9:27 pm:    If only Gibson had made a P90 version of the 335 from 1958 onwards. Now wouldn't that be something. six Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:32 pm:    They do. Its just the Epiphone division that imports and sells them. Check out the Casino (of Beatles fame) and the Nick Valensi Riviera (has P-94's and supposed to be similar to SD Phatcats). Elitist Casino supposed to be VERY nice. Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 4:46 am:    Gary, The Casino is hollow like the 330 so no centre block. Had a couple of 330's that sounded nice but feedback a little and plus the top end of the fretboard is hard to get at. Shame six Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:55 am:    Yes, same as my AF105F, but the Riviera's are all semi-hollow and don't have anywhere near the feedback problem. Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:31 pm:    Gary, I cant find a pic of Nic Valensi's Riviera. Can you post one please or add a link? Cheers six Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:47 pm:    Easy as pie -- top link is to a "standard" Riviera -- bottom link is to the Nick Valensi Riviera with P-94's http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=6&CollectionID=1 http://www.epiphone.com/elitist/nick.htm Sorry, don't have a picture of either one and for some reason the one I tried to copy from the website is just an empty box. One day I'll figure out posting pictures here, but it won't be today... Blues Username: Blues Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 6:55 pm:    Guys, Here's a couple of shots of my 1960's Gibson ES-125 with P90's. The body of the guitar is completely hollow. I don't think Ibanez made copies of the ES125. Thineline Hollowbody with tone! blue{BLUES} Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:47 pm:    Nice grain in the top, there, Blues... That's a very, very pretty guitar. Daveh Username: Daveh Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:49 pm:    I don't know if it was mentioned, but another bathroom trick is to sit in the tub(empty ;^} ) and touch the guitar to the tub as you play. Try it, some tubs are better than others. :^} Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 8:45 pm:    Let me test my understanding here. I you wanted a little more, ahh, oomph -- you sit in an empty bathtub and play with your, ah, guitar. But only if you can, ah, touch it. Against the side. and you've done this often enough to know that sometimes its, ah, better than other times? Got that about right? Only one more question comes to mind...how many times have you been arrested, or asked to leave someone's house when they, ah, found you doing this in their bathroom? OK, another question -- do you do this by yourself? or with a partner (maybe a little tango here?) Daveh Username: Daveh Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:47 pm:    lol :^} Ahh, the things you discover as a teenager. That was a long time ago, but it's something that's hard to forget. I discovered it during a party one night. :^} I then found distinct differences between tubs. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:17 pm:    Oh stop stop. I can't take any more! Daveh Username: Daveh Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 3:17 pm:    So, it's been a day, anybody tried the bathtub yet? You know you want to. ;^} Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 12:56 am:    No tub. But I tried it in the shower. Nearly drowned trying to sing along, and I got a short in one of my pickups! Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 1:56 am:    FINALLY got my Dot Studio back today! If you haven't heard SD Phatcats in a seni-hollow, you have no idea what you're missing. I can get almost any classic rock/blues tone from Chuck Berry on with a small change in the gain and a slight adjustment to tone/volume pots. I played almost 5 hours tonight after work. What a gas! I was jamming with Muddy Waters and Johnny Winter, and I have to say I liked my tone better than Muddy's (he out-plays me by a wide margin, though) the Tele sounds almost harsh in comparison, but it does have MUCH more twang. Other than that, the Phatcats can growl like a big dog on the bridge, or mellow down and go-with-the-flow from the neck. I was surprised that the middle position, both pups active, has a sound that is almost completely differnt from either pup by itself. You can hear both of them, but the combination is very sweet with just a touch of twang and growl. I'm sold. This is now an easier playing, more varied sounding guitar even that my Les Paul. I'm very nearly convinced it is the best guitar I've ever played. I KNOW it blows the doors off any guitar I've ever owned. Wish now that I knew someone local with a Gibson or 2, maybe an Epi Elitist who could give me a comparison. OK, I'll stop talking now. I'm going to try once again, to put in a picture - even though its only one from my cell phone. Here goes... http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/garyelcrrt/mine2/a038ebaa.jpg Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 5:21 am:    Gary, These Phatcat look allright. At least they fit into the humbucker cavities. I just found a prepared answer I forgot to post June 3rd: "John, It's sure worth trying, but then with the Gibson P-94s Garyelcrrt already mentioned. At least they'll fit in humbucker guitars. P-90 soapbars and dogears don't. They come in two different color combinations. Either cream or black in the middle. A matter of taste. If you're looking for a destination for the P-90s you perhaps already have, you could think of Matsumoko Les Paul Special and Special DC replicas for an affordable good piece of wood. Just wait until you bump into something. I'm waiting for such a piece too for my two P100s. I bought 10 Gibson pickups, that came out of a pickup demo Les Paul. 2 classic 57s, 2 classic 57 PLUS, 2 Tony Iommys, 2 mini-humbuckers, and the 2 P100s. Now I'm just waiting for well built axes with lousy pickups, such as these terrible MAXXONS... yuck, they suck! I once measured over 500 kilo-ohms in Maxxon Fender humbucker replica, which was in a Kasuga Telecaster Custom, I replaced it by what I think is an Epiphone humbucker, with a decent resistance of about 8 K. Now there's a much better balance between the neck humbucker and the single coil in the bridge. There must be thousands of well built Japanese guitars with lousy pickups." So now you at least two aesthetic options: Gibson P94s (pick a colour), or Seymour Duncan Phatcats (in chrome like your old humbuckers) I just found out these Phatcats are a lot cheaper than new P94s: http://www.gtrheaven.com/pickups/sdp90.htm That's about half the price Gibsons would cost! And you keep the original chrome appearance! Give it a go! Greetz, Ginger Ale

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