1977 Johnny Smith

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Author Message Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:47 pm:    http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7414213714 To think that this can be had for mere money! Anyone know how the thing plays and sounds? Markownly Username: Markownly Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:01 pm:    Not only am I impressed with this beauty, but the number and quailty of pictures from the seller! It's too bad sometimes it's like pulling teeth to aquire additional focused, pics from sellers. I'll just bet this baby plays as good as it looks. Mark Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:05 pm:    Wow, that guitar is gorgeous and appears to be in pretty nice condition. I'd sure like to hear what it sounds like too. I'll bet it sounds like a million bucks. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:02 am:    That is one of the nicest Johnny Smith's I've ever seen! Don't let Big Mike see it!! Bigmike Username: Bigmike Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 9:20 pm:    Tim, Thanks for the call - sorry it was such a rushed conversation but I was literally walking into a beehive of activity in the NOC when you called... I saw this last night - my one regret with Olivia's is though their merchandise always seems top flight and pristine their prices are about 40% higher than what I'd expect to pay for something. For that kind of change I'd be tempted to look at something like the Heritage TIM got a while back... And that blonde L5 copy on Archtops.com is also quite lovely... I promised myself I'd be abstaining from GAS for a short while so I could build back the depth of my cigar humidor - so for now it's CCAS (Cuban Cigar Aquisition Syndrome) !! Big Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:23 am:    Well guys, looks like this was snatched from the jaws of you heavier duty acquisitionists, even if Big's taste for the premium smokes was all that swung it, but I bagged it!!! That Heritage is more than awesome, what a catch, but to my personal taste, where this Johnny Smith scores is in its understated classical elegance and there's room for both statements in our broad church without anyone needing to fear being burned at the stake. On being burned, I have the greatest sympathy for you good American people, but that price is not excessive to us in the UK, where such a guitar would cost very much more, if it existed here at all. Thank your nice Mr Bush and those foreign spending sprees for keeping the Euro and Sterling high against the USD. Another thing is, though I hear Big Mike about the high margin exacted by Olivia's, hey, they sourced the damn thing and presented it professionally to the public and they stay in business if they can do that consistently, plus if they're used to those margins, they'll have to provide no surprises and deliver what they promise. The lowest bidder only bid $70.02 less than me. Only 3 people bid and the other two were from the US. I got up at 4:10 am to close it and went back to bed at 4:30 still dazed and confused. I think it's a total babe and I'm gonna play the hell out of it, with all due reverence to its age and class. Anyone know any background to this guitar? I understand that it was first developed as a project with D'Angelico, then became a Guild, then a Gibson and that Johnny Smith has gone on to team up with (Mike?) Benedetto, who is now working with Guild on their top end projects. Oh and Ibanez copied it! Sounds like a fascinating story. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 8:48 am:    Phatphred, Congratulations!!! That's a great acquisition. Hope you will post a full review after you have a chance to play it. MP3's welcome!!! Congratulations and enjoy your new axe. Darryl Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:18 am:    Phatphred~You GO Boy!! That is one great score. Glad someone here picked it up. Please provide a detailed commentary for us after your 'new' Johnny Smith arrives. Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 5:54 am:    Thanx guys. Now comes the long wait, the tense and anxious silences and the nails bitten to the elbow while she takes that long journey, passing through strange hands - I don't even want to think about it Looking forward to sharing some good news later on. Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 2:46 pm:    Phatphred: Outstanding catch! It just so gorgeous and in fantastic shape. Did you have to correspond with Olivia's to get them to agree to send it out of the country? What service are you using for shipment? BTW, this is the first example that I have seen which connects the stamped fretboard characters to the serial number and confirms this with an original Warranty card. Please let us know everything about it, when you get it. Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 6:49 pm:    John Thanx 2U2. Joseph at Olivia's was extremely helpful. We're using USPS Express. Actually, for overseas, I think that means Global Express which is a joint venture with FedEx and guarantees delivery in 2-3 days! Alternatively I had offered to use FedEx per se, with whom I had opened an account to extract that 9-pc Musician MC500 or 550 (the question is still unresolved) out of Buenos Aires, Argentina. I've been perfectly happy with USPS airmail parcel service on my other recent deals with US sellers, but this is a little special. ...and wasn't that photography good to pick out the fretboard stamp? I love the whole concept of the guitar, nothing cut or drilled out or pinching the wood between locking nuts, just a freely vibrating archtop with non-intrusive electrics. I had been staring at the shots for what seemed like hours before I realised that what looked like flecks of light reflecting off the pick guard were actually the white position markers on the tops of the five knobs, the for'ard one of which presumably operates an on-on-on selector. Very discrete. A full report will follow (sighs) one day... Bigmike Username: Bigmike Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 1:07 pm:    Phatphred, You'll be just fine with EMS (as we call it "Stateside"). And a very good score. So to help you pass the time whilst waiting for your new sunburst JS to arrive HERE'S a really great clip of my man GB playing a BLONDE Ibanez JS doing ON BROADWAY... Enjoy http://youtube.com/watch?v=58GSLSSDuOA&search=george%20benson Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 1:45 pm:    Big, that feels a whole lot better! I wonder if it'll make me sing like that. That would be something. Sure looks big and chunky in real life! Bigmike Username: Bigmike Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 2:58 pm:    Phatphred, GB is a player of massive stature, but he's a shorter guy - so a lot of the big jazz boxes look huge on him - like me holding my Super 400... That's one of the reasons the GB10 and GB200 aren't that huge... I've owned two Ibanez JS's - you'll love it !!! Big Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 8:31 pm:    Well, it's been some time since the guitar arrived. As the packing case was too big for the express service, it came by parcel post after all, which took nearly 3 weeks. Still, we have emerged from the bridal suite, so here's that report. The strings had been slackened for the journey and I found that the bone nut was loose. Superglue remedied that and I was able to set the string height at the nut really close to the first fret, the way I like it. The bridge adjustments were very easy to make, and with the super 400-style neck, I achieved a really low and fast action, while still getting the most incredibly loud acoustic sound. The body seems indistinguishable from the L5CES copy/FA300, but it is just amazing how the embedded pickups and controlls kill the acoustic sound. This guitar is amazingly loud unplugged! As for the sound of the super 70s mini humbuckers, they deliver a very clean and punchy sound throughout the guitar's range, almost a cold sound, but very articulate and with lots of presence. The sound of the embedded pickups on my 2355 and FA 300 is funkier and warmer, even fuzzy around the edges, which is great when you need that sound and, as I love it too, I won't be getting rid of them anytime soon (except that I've just closed on that pre-lawsuit blonde Bradley at a good price, and will probably sell my sunburst 2355. http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D140003994690 I have two Gibson PAF's from the early 70s with chrome covers and will probably fit them onto the Bradley since it's been through some changes electrically: any opinions?) The Johnny Smith is a big girl and would be quite hard to play (I'm using flat wound 13's) were it not for the 23.75 inch scale length and the low-profile neck. The fingerboard is actually very easy to get around and it plays like a dream. Unfortunately, even with the laminated top, there is a strong tendency to feed back, especially on the open sixth string, but I've found that resting the heel of the right hand on the bridge goes a long way to cutting that down. Well, I've tried to convey my personal experience of playing this guitar. A real joy to play and I'd recommend it to anyone, especially if you find something missing in the sound you're getting out of your ES175 or L5 style jazz box. Only real problem is, I can't see myself taking this guitar to a gig, as it seems so vulnerable. All it would take is for someone to step on the lead and the whole of the pickguard, electrics and the floating pickups could just be ripped from the guitar in one go! Not one for the duck walk! The real mystery of this guitar is that stamped serial number on the end of the fretboard: Y7713. As John says, it's confirmed in the warranty card, but the strange thing is that the quality-control checklist should have been filled in by the factory controller and the distributor's inspector but only the distributor has filled it in. I have no idea whatsoever what the serial number actually means, although it would seem to be right to say that the guitar must have been made in 1977. Anyone have any thoughts? Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 8:11 am:    Phatphred, It was you that bought the Bradley! I just had tipped Johns and then it was gone! You could try the original (Super 70) neck PU and the bridge PU replacement (Super 70??) first, then all you need is a selector switch, a volume and tone pot + knobs and some wire. Great deal for under $500.= I have the Ibanez 2355m. It's about the same. What I'd like to know, is the year (Serial nr) of the Bradley, since it has the open book shaped (Gibson) headstock. Mine has the Guild headstock and a wooden bridge. Did they continue producing open book headstock guitars under different brand names after '75, '76, or even '77 (Parallel to the Guild headstock Ibanez models)? Please, keep us posted Ginger Ale Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:54 am:    Thanks, Ginger. I first saw the Bradley on a search I like to do every day on eBay for "archtop". It usually turns up a few lovelies and it's generally quite harmless I panicked just a little when I thought the serious collectors might be interested in it, but I was, in fact, the only person who bid. Seems like amazing value. I think the fretboard is Ebony for the contrast with the blonde finish. I have no way of telling what its year of manufacture may be. I suppose it's possible that open book headstock guitars slipped through under the other brand names emerging from Hoshino even after the lawsuit was compromised. Naturally, I'll give the resident pick-ups a fair hearing. I'm still thinking about using the Gibson PAF's. Turning back to the Johnny Smith, any thoughts on the stamped serial number? Maybe, if the factory inspector did not check it, or did not admit to having checked it, it was a second, although I can't find anything wrong with it and neither did the USA distributor at the time. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 3:36 pm:    There are no second choice 2461. It's a limited edition. That's why you have such a low serial nr. After the Year 77 there ar only 2 digits. So if you start at 00 they made no more than 100 per year. It was a very expensive guitar then: 2500 guilders (about $1460.=) in 1977! If the Bradley would indeed have an ebony fretboard, that would be a surprise, being a B brand made for a mail order company . My IBANEZ 2355M has a ROSEWOOD fretboard... and the same cheapo tuners BTW. Ginger Ale Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:18 pm:    Found something on stamped serial nrs. in Jeff's Black Hole: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/2632/2653.html?1040214134 They are quite rare and always on top of the line guitars! Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 7:04 pm:    Ginger, yeah I looked at that link when I was researching about this Johnny Smith. Of course, I'd like to go with the analysis in your last comment, but I'm disturbed by the fact that there seems to be no pattern to how these numbers were allocated. Here is another link that I looked at at the time: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/16/3816.html and a more recent one: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/6484/17204.html#POST46636 A nice story from Jim Donahue at the end. And see this offering from Johns: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/13/16575.html#POST46550 Well, the mystery gets no shallower. One recurring factor is the use of the letter Y at the beginning of the number. This obviously did not relate to a month. Any theories on what it could have stood for? I have made an interesting discovery on the relation between action and feedback. Last night I oiled the ebony fretboard, which has made it look 10 years younger. I then built up the action again from the bridge, starting with the thumbwheels too low and raising them gradually. I now have an action which is quite ridiculously low and fast, but with negligible and inaudible fret buzz, and which cuts down a fair bit of the acoustic resonance. This has reduced the feedback dramatically, but the electric sound is pretty much the same. I think I'll keep this setup and live with it for some weeks before making my mind up. It's opened up a whole new territory. And there's no reason why the action can't be raised slightly when going into acoustic mode. Maybe that should have been obvious, but it's made a big difference!

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