| Author |
Message |
Jhaas
Username: Jhaas
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 1:56 pm: | |
Hi All,
This might be a slightly biased audience, but I'd like to solicit some opinions on the Artcore AFS75T vs. the Gretsch Electromatic hollow body, Agile Cool Cat Prestige and possibly the Epiphone Wildkat, although the Epi is starting to drop off my list.
A little about me, I've been playing for 25 years, but never owned a hollowbody. My current rig consists of a '70 Gibson Les Paul Custom and an '83 Fender Squier Strat with EMG's into a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I've loved Gretsch guitars and their sound for a long time, but never could afford one. Actually I'm recently returning to playing after some years off, and now I'm seeing all these affordable hollow bodies that are getting rave reviews. So I think I'll definitely be getting one in the very near future.
I'm in two bands - one is a (mostly) 60's - 70's rock cover band and the other is an alt. country original band. I think the hollow body would be a good addition to both bands. What I'm after is the guitar sound of the likes of Social Distortion, Billy Zoom (X), Brian Setzer, Thorogood (ES-175) etc. So I won't be playing Jazz on this puppy.
I live in Northern Vermont , so I don't have a large selection of shops I can go into and test drive all the hollow body guitars out these days, but I'm naturally drawn to the Gretsch Electromatic Hollow Body since its Gretsch that I associate with that sound. But lots of people like the Artcore series, so I'd like to get some opinions on the Artcore AFS75T. Do y'all think it would suit my needs?
Also, what is the difference between the AFS75T, AFS75TD, and AFS78T? The Ibanez site doesn't do a very good job of differentiating between the different models. Is it just cosmetic?
I'll just add that I'm not opposed to swapping out pickups and upgrading tuners if that were to become necessary to get the sound I want. Things like the quality of workmanship, feel of neck, etc. are harder to fix.
Thanks!
John |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 2:52 pm: | |
For what it's worth, here's my experience; I've got an AFS78T and play in a "rock" band (www.xlfive.com). It's a lovely guitar to play, it looks fantastic and when I wind up the volume I really like the feedback I can get and the bigsby style trem is very nice. However I haven't yet found a way to get enough toppy twang out of the pickups. I may end up changing them.
I believe the difference between the 78 and the 75 is not only cosmetic, the neck construction is different. Can't remember the details. |
Jhaas
Username: Jhaas
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 10:08 pm: | |
Thanks for the info Nobster!
I checked out the XLFive site - nice site, and I found the photos useful to see the thinkness of the AFS78T. I wish it were a little thicker, like around 2.5 inches/ 6cm, but it looks like its much thinner than that.
I'm still considering it though. Thanks again.
John |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 09, 2006 - 5:01 pm: | |
Yes, the body is 43mm thick like the AFS75 but I like it that way. It's a very comfortable guitar to play and the overall fit and finish is excellent. One thing that does bother me (and others) is the position of the pickup selector switch, which is right under the trem and takes some finding when you are playing. You sort of get used to it - but I may well move it eventually. |
Mty
Username: Mty
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2006 - 9:13 pm: | |
Check out the Gretsch Pages site for some debate on this question. There are many there who say an artcore + GFS retrotron nashville pickups will give you that sound you are looking for.
This post has several audio clips that will demonstrate: http://www.gretschpages.com/discus/viewtopic.php?id=8184
This has several examples of Ibanez artcores with retrotrons: http://www.gretschpages.com/discus/viewtopic.php?id=12165
S |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 6:38 am: | |
Hi Jhaas,
I have owned two Ibanez hollowbodies (FG100's) for over 10 years now. I also own a Gretsch White Falcon and Gretsch Duojet. I've also played live with a Gibson ES125 (George Thorogoods fave ax)and tried out both the Artcore and Electromatic models.
I think I am fairly well qualified to give you an opinion on the matter.
If it was me in your shoes I'd be going for the Electromatic by Gretsch. I say this because the Artcore has full sized humbuckers which produce the wrong tone for the rootsy sound you want. You need a hot single coil pickup that can overdrive the front end of a tube amp without too much help from a pedal. P90's, Dynasonics, and Dearmond 2000 (2k's) are perfect for this.
The Artcore guitars are also dinky little things with wierd proportions. They are well built but just don't capture what I feel archtops are really all about.
The Electomatics have the Dearmond 2000's, a floating bridge, bigsby and the right aesthetics.
Cheers,
Mark |
Jhaas
Username: Jhaas
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 4:02 pm: | |
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your opinions, based on your collection, I'm very glad you decided to shared your thoughts on the subject.
The Ibanez pickups wouldn't be an issue, as I would change them right off. After all the information I've gathered, I've determined that if I choose to go the Artcore route, I would be treating it as a project. Most likely get an AF75TD (fat body), put an Ibanez Bigsby style trem on it, replace the pups w/ GFS retrotrons (inexpensive), or TV Jones (not inexpensive), and replace the tuners. I'd most likely reconfigure the controls to be more Gretsch-like as well.
That being said, I've pretty much decided to go with the Gretsch Electromatic with DeArmonds if I can get a descent deal on one. I'm relieved to hear you say the Dearmonds would be appropriate for the rock stuff I'm doing. I was a little concerned they'd be too twangy, and that I might prefer the Artcore outfitted w/ GFS Filtertron clones. But now I'm feeling more confident that the Electromatic is my first choice.
Thanks Again for your input.
John |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 6:17 am: | |
Hi Jhaas,
The DeArmond 2000 pickup is not quite as ballsy as a real Dynasonic. They look the same from the top but turn them upside down and you will see they're quite different pickups. The DeArmond may be a little underpowered for your complete satisfaction but they will still suit you way better than the pickups in the Artcore. Keep in mind that the DeArmonds are US built whereas the Artcore has generic sounding Chinese humbuckers.
If you find the DeArmonds are a little too twangy for you, you can easily have them overwound. Otherwise a pickup swap to Dynasonics, Filtertrons, Powertrons (bluesey), Magnatrons (awesome), or P90's is easy on an Electromatic.
Billy Zoom is well known for his 1957 Sparklejet with Dynasonics. The Filtertron is where Setzer and the Reverend Horton heat are at. P90's are Thorogood to the bone, and the Powertron is currently Billy Gibbons fave pickup. The Magnatron is a sweet blend of the twangy definition of a Dyna with the raunch of a Filtertron.
Make sure that when you order the Electomatic to specify that you want the third generation of this model which has all the good stuff.... a body much closer to the proper shape of a 6120, a floating aluminium Bigsby bridge, steeper neck angle and proper Bigbsy B6 vibrato.
I suggest you do a bit of research on the evolution of the Electromatic 512X series over at www.gretschpages.com. The first versions are OK, but nowhere near as good as the second and third versions. Plenty of dealers are still trying to offload the first version so it pays to know what you're looking for.
Cheers,
Mark |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 6:27 am: | |
Hi Jhaas,
I thought you would be interested to see this. Its my 1986 Ibanez FG100 which has been modified with a vintage Bigsby, Schaller roller bridge and TV Jones Tv'trons.
Cheers,
Mark |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 6:29 am: | |
Oh - and here are the Gretsches.
Munch |
Jhaas
Username: Jhaas
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 8:44 am: | |
Hi Mark,
Very *VERY* nice guitars - all three!
Thanks for the summary of available pickups, and the heads-up on the three versions of the G515x series. I'm a fan of both X and the Rev, so it helps to know what they're using.
I've been searching, reading and posting over at the gretschpages forum (screen name is BootsDeVille over there). It's a great resource and very active forum.
Thanks again for sharing the pix, and all the info! |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 3:08 pm: | |
Some great info here in this thread and some lovely guitars! Although I'm now pretty sure I need to change the pickups on my AFS78T to get the sound I want I'm still unsure about which pickups I should get - so far I'm leaning towards P90's or something similar in a humbucker size (maybe GFS?), but any help is appreciated! To sum up here's what I guess are the points to consider:
- I'm usually a tele player
- I'm using a Peavey Classic 50 4x10 (an all tube amp, 'bassy' sounding), no effects, except maybe a wah now and again.
- I get my disortion from driving the amp, and wind down the volume on the guitar to clean up a bit for a crunchy rythm.
- The rythm sound is very important to me and I'm looking for slightly driven jangly, ringing, big open chords without any 'wooliness'.
- The stock humbuckers are quite hot I suppose, hotter than my tele but they don't cut through for me at the top end. When I roll back the volume it just gets dull.
- I'm not playing jazz! I suppose you could say it's more rock/pop/punk that I do.
As it stands I'm happy with the AFS78 to play, I love the bigsby style trem, but when I plug in it's a let down.
Thanks for any opinions on what I should get.
Nobster |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 1:04 am: | |
Nobster,
It sounds like you would want the Filtertrons or P90's in a humbucking size.
Cheers,
Mark |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 8:08 am: | |
quote:It sounds like you would want the Filtertrons or P90's in a humbucking size.
Cheers,
Mark
I agree!... but I don't know which way to go  . I've been reading a lot of positive comments about GFS pickups so I was thinking of maybe their Dream 90's which are supposedly a P90 but a bit hotter, or maybe one of their Retrotron models (but which one's Nashville, Liverpool?, overwound?) which lots of people seem to be using in Artcores these days.
Because I generally like the sound of my Telecasters which are fitted with Texas Specials, I'm thinking that maybe I should stick with single coils (P90 types), however I'm not against humbuckers as long as I can get a nice jangly sound. The goal after all is not to make my AFS sound like a Tele - it'd be nice to have something different!
I wish I could try em out but that's always the problem when choosing replacements pickups.
Thanks
Nobster |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 8:56 am: | |
..or maybe I could mix them? put a GFS Dream 90 in the bridge and a Retrotron in the neck!
(or the other way around.. ?) |
Nobster
Username: Nobster
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:27 am: | |
Just a followup: I finally put black GFS Dream 90 pickups (single coils, something like a P90) in both the bridge and neck positions on my AFS78T. So far I'm very happy  . The guitar now has plenty of sparkle and is livelier, no longer woolly.
Now I just need a master volume on it and it will be perfect. |
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