Full sized Hollow Body

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Author Message Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 9:08 am:    I am starting to look at full-sized hollow body guitars. I am soliciting opinions on these guitars from anyone that has experience with them. Tell me the model number and perhaps, if you know it, and pricing. Also, does anyone have experience (please don't shoot me) with Heritage guitars? Feedback much appreciated... Stacey Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:03 am:    There's no reason to shoot anybody. Heritage are very good instruments, built by former Gibson staff. They were unhappy about the decline of Gibson's quality. What I know, is that they use solid maple for ES-175 models. So in fact they use better materials than Gibson, but not every jazz guitarist is happy about this, because this leads to more feedback problems. Acoustically they're better. I think it's all a matter of personal taste. There's only one way: try them next to a Gibson ES-175 and an Ibanez 2355, 2355m and 2616 Than there is the range comparable with the yet bigger L-5, (Heritage Gold Eagle) with a solid spruce top. The vintage Ibanez equivalents are not so easy to find and getting more and more expensive. Aria Pro II made them under the name L-1000 and PE-180 (nice too). Now Aria makes them under the name FA-70. And then there is the Johnny Smith model, with a floating pickup. The Ibanez equivalent is rare and expensive. Heritage won't be cheap either because of the better materials and craftmanship. Now Aria makes them under the name FA-71. The colour NATURAL (Blonde) is always the most expensive, because you can't hide anything under the paint. Greetz, Ginger Ale Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 12:29 pm:    I bought an Ibanez AF75DT and after comparing a lot of semi- and full-hollowbody guitars. I found the Ibanez to be of comparable quality to most, typically less expensive, and more comfortable to play. I consider the Artcore line about the best value on the market today. I only got to play one Heritage recently and it was a Semi-hollowbody. I remember liking it better than new Gibs*ns I've played. Nice guitar, just not a stupendous value. I recommend comparing Heritage to the high-end Ibanez Artcores and see which you like better. Stugotts Username: Stugotts Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 3:06 pm:    +1 Craigjc, I have an AF85VLS, it sounds great and it plays great. I have not changed a thing. I do my own set-ups and I have it just the way I like it. I tried the AF105,but I did not find it to be $300 better than this guitar. The Artcores are truly the best value in guitars today. Stu Dvsleeko Username: Dvsleeko Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 11:39 am:    I like my AF84E every bit as much as my Gibby L4CES. I think they are both great. Hollow bodies with f holes are my favorite. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/L4sleeko/DSCN0307.jpg[/IMG] ?;^)~ Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 1:13 pm:    Dvsleeko, what are your guitars from left to right and what age are they? By the way, they are stunning! Stacey Dvsleeko Username: Dvsleeko Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 6:52 pm:    Stacey, thanks for the complement. They are as follows; Ibanez AF84E (Limited edition -ended January '06) Epiphone Emperor Regent (2006) traded in to make room for my Campellone Special - click on below Gibson L4CES - 2002 Harmony - not sure of the year. Campellone Special - 2001: http://www.gbase.com/Powered/GearDetails.aspx?Dealer=23977a0b-6862-43e3-b8ff-9de cb2a97f79&Item=859884 Hope this helps. ?;^)~ Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 7:08 pm:    My experience with Heritage is that they make some great guitars, but they can be inconsistent. As long as you can try before you buy they are worth considering. I'd stay away from ordering one though. -Sven Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 7:24 pm:    Dvsleeko, How do you like the Ibanez AF84E? How much were they? Thanks, Stacey Dvsleeko Username: Dvsleeko Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 9:45 pm:    The Ibanez was my best value of all my guitars. $450.00 out the door including H.S.C. I ordered one sight unseen. It was perfect in all ways. The sound is awesome. It has a floating pup. Not sure what kind but I am impressed with the tone. All of the inlays and bindings line up perfectly. The finish and wood selection are beautiful. Lots of nice figure in the maple. The finish - glass like without the poured on look. I mention these points because I also ordered my Epiphone sight unseen and was a little disappointed with the details. The bindings around the headstock - most of them didn't line up with each other. And the first (largest) inlay was a bit crooked. Some would argue that in this price range you're not going to get perfect. The Ibanez was $100.00 cheaper with none of this crap. I am a Goldsmith by profession - I set the stones mostly. So if something is crooked or doesn't line up, I spot it and it bugs me. Some don't care for the tone of the Ibanez pickups but they must have better ears than I do cause I put this right up there with my Gibson ($3000.00) and my Campellone ($6000.00) Needless to say, I really like this Ax. Play one first as they are fairly common and easy to try out. Check out the neck and so forth and look at the details to see what you think. I don't think you can go wrong for the money, but hey, you may not like them. Hope this helps. - Steve ?;^)~ Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 10:59 pm:    Stacey~I'd recommend looking at Heritage's full hollow bodied instruments also. Early on they had some inconsistencies in quality, but not in the last few years. Now they are all Plek'd and the pickups have improved greatly due to their proprietary 'HRW' (H.Rendall Wall) designed PAF's. I have been lucky enough to own a few of their archtops and very few quality issues to speak of. Mostly, I preferred to change out their pickups (pre-HRW) and get a proper pro set up. Otherwise, they are great values for SOLID wood instruments. Ibanez has most makers beat for quality solid and semi-hollow body guitars in my opinion, but Heritage is the top value leader of USA made non-laminate archtops. And they are even a better value if purchased used. Tim Pitchpocket Username: Pitchpocket Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 2:33 pm:    Has anyone checked out the Eastman hand carved made in China full size hollow bodies? I've ogled online, but have never played one. The reports I hear are good, but mostly from violin/cello shops who sell the Eastman brand. Their guitars are relatively new on the market. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 4:06 pm:    Pitchpocket~Yes, Eastmans are very nice archtops. I played a few and was amazed at the quality for the price. But when your employee compensation is just above slave labor, and you convert fine violin/cello makers to guitars, that's what is to be expected. Now Eastman is getting into the semi-hollow and solid body guitar market due to their success with archtops. Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 4:19 pm:    I have not had the oppurtunity to see or play a Heritage. I did, however, play around on an Eastman. I did not get the model number. It was very nice! It was expensive as well. What is in the Ibanez line, old or new, that is worth looking at (prefer it being $1,000 or less in price)? I have read mixed reviews on the 2355 because of the neck size. Is it any smaller than a 81 AS50 neck? Thanks for all the feedback. Stacey Mrryte Username: Mrryte Registered: 01-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 5:33 pm:    An Ibanez full hollowbody for $1000 or less? Your best bet would be the AF105 and AF105F. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/compare?g=guitar&base_pid=512494&base_pid=51 2493 Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 1:19 am:    My experience with the 2355 is that the neck size is very much comparable with the gibson es 175. and after playing several other guitars, heritage, gibsons, etc, i decided to stay with the 2355. also the artcore as 73 set up by a pro is awesome, probably one of the true sleepers out there, cheerrs! Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 8:25 pm:    Well, I played around on an Eastman 810 series today. I really looked around at the construction of it and I have to say: It was nice, but not any better, perhaps not as good, as my AS50 (81). Actually, not any better than most of the current artcore guitars I have spent time with. I don't see paying the difference. I am still interested in an older Ibanez full hollow body. What else is out there like the 2355 that people have had experience with? Stacey Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 12:52 am:    Stacey, Eastman guitars have solid, hand carved tops. Comparing one to an AS50, which has a machine made plywood top is not really apples to apples. Keep in mind that you typically can't touch a carved top guitar for less than $3000. It is very labor intensive, and it makes for a different kind of guitar. The price/quality of Eastman is pretty remarkable. -Sven Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 10:27 am:    Sven, Don't get me wrong, I understand that the Eastman is a a bargin for hand carved guitars. All I am saying is that the Ibanez guitars I have played on (including the AS50) have as good of feel and finish. That being said, the Eastman is nice and is a deal for what it is. Stacey Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 6:05 pm:    How thick of a body are you looking for and what do you play? Jazz, Rock, Blues? This will be a large factor in choice. Careful with ES 125's with P90 pickups. They are a fair collectable item and you'll find them out there at a good price. But... they are the king of feedback and bad tone. I recommend staying with some super 58's on a Benson or ES175 style axe, and get a Boss EQ to run with it. Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 6:36 pm:    You can have my FA100, ...or my FG100, AF105, or my AF195; ...or all four. Ace Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 8:43 pm:    Rat, 2 1/2 to 3 inches would work fine. I am looking for a smooth full tone for easy to light Jazz. What is it about the 2355 neck that troubles some people? Thanks, Stacey Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:02 pm:    Anymore thoughts on hollow body's?? Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 7:34 am:    I'll ask my girlfriend to make digital photograph my Full sized Hollow Body guitars. I still use an old fashioned Olympus camera (with photofilm and an extreme zoom lense) and I hate that HP bitch, cause I don't like the lense and it eats batteries. As you perhaps know, only one of them is an Ibanez, but a very beautiful one: a mint 2355m with OHSC. Then I have two Ibanez THINLINE jazz guitars: an early 80s AM50 and an late 90s AS120. My OTHER FULL SIZED hollow bodies are nice to, though they're NOT FROM IBANEZ: > Aria Pro II L-1000 NT (Super V, L-5 with super 400 neck 70s 'lawsuit' copy with open book headstock gold hardware); > Aria F-71 NT (one floating mini humbucker, gold hardware late 90s); > Epiphone Zephyr Regent SB (ES-165 Herb Ellis type gold hardware, but with DOTS inlays and a black pickguard instead of parallellogram inlays and white pickguard late 90s); > a cheap sixties Combo (Egmond) sunburst jazz guitar (no pickups) with a plywood fret board and an ebonized beech bridge. They sold these guitars through mail order ads in TV and Radio Magazines. Interesting because it's old and Dutch. Nice to take to a picnic or to the playground with the kids (One should always have some cheap guitars/ mandolins for these purposes. To the water for instance I mostly take my all original aluminium, plastic and carbon fibre Applause AA14-4 by Kaman USA, because it's the most temperature and water-resistant.) But you'll need some patience, because we're having a heat wave right now and we're going for a swim. Greetz, Ginger Ale Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:39 pm:    Just so you all know -- Went shopping Saturday, Bananas at Large, San Rafael, California -- was playing a GB-10 sunburst when a salesman (not mine, by the way) stopped and told me that he had another Ibanez that was the same guitar, but less expensive. Then he pointed to an AGxx (whatever the current model is). When I got my heart re-started, I spent some time explaining various of the differences, to which he replied, "Oh, well if you're experienced its a whole different matter!" and walked away like he never heard a word I said. Moral of the story is, when shopping for a new guitar, go back to wherever you bought the last one - because nobody else knows who you are, or what you know, and THEY LIE! Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 3:14 pm:    Here in Holland we call such salesmen "dozenschuivers" (box shovers). They sell boxes, no matter what's in it. If you notice they know a lot less about guitars than you do, or that they lie, go to another shop... But sometimes a lack of knowledge is an advantage. STORY: A keyboard shop started to sell Aria guitars. They sold an Aria FA-71 NT with the protection foam still under the bridge. The new owner became disappointed about the sound and traded it in the shop where I'm a regular customer for a Samick jazz box. And so I found a brand new Aria FA-71 NT (1963 Johnny Smith type) for 52.5% of the list price with the foam still under the bridge! Fg100 Username: Fg100 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:15 am:    Sabeking, what I "don't like" about the neck of the 2355 is that it's too narrow for my hands. I think if you have big hands you might feel some discomfort. You should try one if you have a chance. It has a very nice jazz tone. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:34 am:    Absolutely right FG100, I believe I gave that answer too last Friday or Saturday, but it's one of the texts that disappeared due to the hosting company's troubles. It's better not to use .013 on these narrow necks, because you'd have less space left for your fingers between the strings. You might touch strings you don't want to touch. Best string gauges for the 2355 neck are .011 and .012 I use d'Addario Chromes (flatwound), but you could consider trying roundwounds like Dean Markley jazz light. (I use the .011 on my AM50). They have a wound 3rd (G). If the neck is really too narrow for your hands, you could think of a 17" jazz box, a (lawsuit) copy of L-5CES, Johnny Smith, Super 400 or Super V. But mostly they are more expensive. $2500.= is a very normal price for a good one. You can have the 2355 for half the price. They are less rare. Greetz, Ginger Ale Fg100 Username: Fg100 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:37 am:    Another thing, people tend not to like the AF200. I have an AF200 and a 2355. The sound of the 2355 is more "classic" (more electric like an ES175), the AF200 has a very nice tone but it's more acoustic. I really like it and play it most of the time. But it's true that every time I get my AS200 (with 0.12 flat wounds) it's like listening to a very good compromise between both sounds. It's beautiful. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:01 am:    Sabeking, Here are the measurements of my '76 2355m: The outside width at the nut is 42 millimetres. The inside width of the spacing measured from string 1 to 6 = 35 millimetres (5 x 7mm). Yes, that's pretty narrow for a jazz guitar, but if you like these telecaster and stratocaster C shape maple necks with rosewood fretboards, this jazz box is ideal for you. USA Strat necks measure 1-5/8" = 41.275 mm or 1.65" = 41.91 mm 1-11/16" = 42.8625 mm at the nut Fender Japan Strat necks (Fuji Gen Gakki) measure 42 mm at the nut. So if you are already used to a C shaped MIJ strat neck, the 2355 neck will be like coming home. If you are used to V shaped necks it's a totally different story. If you tend to use your left thumb on the fretboard, the 2355 is one of the few jazz boxes to make it possible. (NOT my style, I'm a classical school guitarist). FG100, I guess the AS200 you mentioned was a slip of the (AF)FFFinger. (BTW: On an AS200 I would use .010 or perhaps .011 max roundwounds.) Greetz. Ginger Fg100 Username: Fg100 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:32 am:    I know, I know... it's about full hollow bodies... but... I thought I would mention it... for the sound. I agree with you about the 2355 neck. I play more like "classical school", too. But even for the ones that play with the thumb embracing the neck it seems to be on the narrow side. I like the shape though. that's just my humble opinion of course. The best is to try it and see how it feels for yourself. The sound is very good. So, if you can live with the neck you'll have a good guitar for a good price... Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 1:31 pm:    Where 2355's score is that they are light, compact and tough as old boots, but pack a nice big tone. They make the ideal jazz workhorse. I don't consider them pretty (although Acetan's FA100 is a head-turner within that genre) and if you have big hands or use big strings, you may not find them comfortable. But you'll have to smash up two of them before suffering the loss of one L5CES copy or three for the loss of one Johnny Smith. Emotionally, I can't get inside the sound of the 2355. It just does what it's told extremely well. I have more of an affinity for the L5 copies and completely lose myself in the Johnny Smith. Of course that's all subjective, but it can't hurt to try the 2355/FA100 first. It could be love at first sight and you might just never stray.... Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 5:47 pm:    Sabeking, I realize you are looking for a full size jazz box, but it may be mentioning, one thing I found was that fuller size does not necessarily equal fuller sound. After trying dozens of 16" and 17" archtops, I found the tone I was looking for in my AG195. With the tone rolled down to 4, t is full, and as smooth as can be. Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:48 pm:    Could it be that the 2335 from different years had different neck specs?? i have large hands , and find that my 2355 makes playing complex jazz chords a breeze, as a matter of fact, i do not like skimpy necks, again my axe is pre lawsuit, feels and plays like a gibby, what say you/? jazzz Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:06 pm:    Jazzz, I don't know... I know the specs of my own guitar, because I measured it. But "Feels like... plays like..." Why don't you measure your neck at the nut? This is not a matter of opinion. A millimetre is a millimetre. 42 outside. 35 inside (with the original nut). (I didn't measure the radius and neck profile). Greetz, Ginger Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 12:28 am:    Ginger, May be if you measure the radius at nut, third fret, seventh fret, twelveth fret and seventeen fret and let us know, we may have a better idea then. Ace Sabeking Username: Sabeking Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:17 pm:    I had a chance to play a GB20 this past week while I was in Las Vegas (Ed Roman guitar). This thing was an absolute gem. Unfortunately, I can't pay 2500 for a guitar right now. So, what is going to give that same, or close, tone as the GB20? Oh, and by the way, for half the price... Stacey

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