| Author |
Message |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 6:50 am: | |
Hi,
what about the Terada productions of Ibanez hollow bodies?i read H in the serial number stays for Terada manifacture,i'm going to buy an FG-100 H7***** as to say produced in Terada in '87.
Thank you!
Cé |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 7:59 am: | |
ok,the first answer come from myself...i post without searching the forum before...excuse me!
I found many posts saying Terada is a very good factory,but i couldn't be able to find information about specific FG100 model made in this factory...if someone has other info or own this specific guitar,please let me know ;)
Thank you again
Cé |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:21 am: | |
As far as I know they stopped making FG100s in 1986 |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 8:50 am: | |
Ce: If the serial number is really F7***** then I'd say it has to be an '87 Terada made guitar. They didn't make FG100s in the 1970s.
FG100: I'd say it's more likely to be an early '87 (leftover from '86 parts?) than a '79. I haven't been able to find an '87 Full and Semi-Acoustic catalog to confirm whether they were available (in some country) or not. Do you have a source? |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:28 am: | |
You’re right John, they were not made in the '70s. They started producing it after they stopped the FA100. Sometime between 1981 and 1982. The last time the FA100 appears on a catalog is on the 1981. The first time the FG100 appears on a catalog (as far as I could find) was in the 1982 and the last time on the 1986. Like you, I have never seen a 1987 jazz box catalog. I think we discussed in the forum about 1987 being a transition year and it seems that literature is very scarce. In the 1988 catalog there is no FG100.
Cé, could you post a pic showing the guitar and if possible the serial number?
Four possibilities:
1. It's a FA100 being sold as a FG100 (we have seen -here in the forum- people mixing the two models in the past)
2. It's some of the AFs (120 or 200) being sold as a FG100.
3. It's a FG100 made or that got the serial in 1987.
4. It's one more fake like the GBs we saw some time ago.
So, the pics would help. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:54 am: | |
Found a French ad:
http://www.macmusic.org/ads/view.php/lang/fr/id/30505/
Text:
dimanche 19 décembre 2004, 10:36
rare guitare de jazz, année 1987.made in japon.couleur blonde naturel.sonorité incroyable.le manche et les frettes sont dans un état exceptionnel.pas de coup,ni de rayures sur la guitare.etat général:10/10;avec étui ibanez. contact:0670761744
€ 1550
(10161 FF)
So FG100 production obviously didn't stop in 86.
F stands for Fuji Gen Gakki.
F7***** stands for Fuji Gen Gakki '87 *****
H stands for Terada.
H7***** stands for Terada '87 *****.
So in order to read a H7 number you must COMBINE the info of mr_Roadstar on the LETTERS with the info of Jim Donahue on the FIRST DIGIT of the NUMBER.
Source: Captain Ibanez's Serial Numbers thread.
So H7* can stand for Terada 87 of August seventy something between 1975 and 31th December 1979.
If the second digit is under 5 it must be 80s, because in the first half of the 70s they had no serial nrs. If it is 6 or higher, it could be late 70s too. Then you need to know the model number and in what period this model was produced. I must admit, it is a bit messy, like some in that thread said.
The F itself never stands for an 8. It could stand for either a 6 (June) or for Fuji Gen.
The H itself could stand for an 8 (August) or for Terada.
Important: mr Roadstar corrected that this numbering system was used from January 1st 1987 and not from 1984! According to his info the old numbering with a LETTER for the MONTH, has continued until 31 December 1986.
If he's right, and I think he is, because he was doing all research on Roadstar II serial numbers, we must forget some of the early info in Cameron's Serial Number thread combine all the corrected info we find and perhaps make one new corrected serial number table.
So, who's going for the free headache?
Right now I'm taking my sons for a swim... the heat wave you know... |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:54 am: | |
The French ad says 1987 but doesn't give any serial number nor a picture. Sorry, but it doesn't make anything obvious.  ... (no offence)
But you might be right... who knows, it could have '87 FG100s out there... 
I wrote in the possibility 3... it could be a FG100 made in 87 or one that was made in 86 but got a serial number in 87. I remember another discussion here about similar cases.
Again, the easiest way would be to see a picture.. In 1987 the f holes changed and I have never seen a jazz box from 87 onwards with the old ones. (besides de GBs and the first PM20s) |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:54 am: | |
here are some pics
\image
\image
\image
\image
i'm pretty sure the year is 87,from the informations about dating i found on the web.
I wanted to know something about the quality of Terada factory's guitars...! |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:01 am: | |
 |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:03 am: | |
Cé, you forgot to write the name of the file ... \image {name of the file}...
it has to be smaller than 100 kb if I'm not wrong. |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:19 am: | |
ok.. Possibility 3....
it's a FG100.. and it should be 1987 (either made in or assembled in 87 with left over parts from 86.. like John suggested).
About Terada.. I guess the quality of what they made wasn't different from what was made in other Japanese factories. But it doesn't seem they have put a lot of attention on the choice of wood grain for the head stock.
Have you played/tried it? |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 12:08 pm: | |
It looks like there is a label inside the upper F hole. What info is on that? |
Orval
Username: Orval
Registered: 03-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:04 pm: | |
according to jim donahue, terada built some very nice instruments but had trouble keeping product flowing out the door. this is most likely why there are small numbers of the semi hollows made in the late 80's like the af200 and am400's. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:45 pm: | |
What if the assumption that the first digit indicates the year is all wrong?
What if it isn't a coincidence that the last two digits of the serial number of this guitar are 86?
Are there Terada guitars with serial numbers of which the 5th digit is not an 8 or a 9?
Back to the Captain's serial number thread and read what Jim Donahue wrote:
"Here are the answers to your Questions
F7 Means 1987 in 1997 they added F 97 and the CE designation.
Sung-Eum is E because S was used by Samick. So S was samick in 1990 to 1995, S is now Sejan,
Y is actually yoojin Korean Factory this was made in Korea (RG140,RG240,RG340) They also made the first Korean acoustic's.
P Peerless factory in Pusan Korea, Owned and controlled by IIDA Gakki in Japan they made the Nomad series and AE and other acoustics like the Charleston.
I is Idda Gakki they made some AR300 models in the mid 1980's after Fuji stopped making set necks.
H is the funniest H7 is Terrada a comapy in Nagoya Japan that makes mostly Gretsch guitars, This was a disaster and they made H7 for 3 years on the serial numbers, H must have ment for Hoshino.
Acoustics with a 2 like 2940000 are Cort Taejan factory because they did not have a Letter on the stamp, I asked them to do that.
The older acoustics were made by a Japanese company Called Kato they made the V300 series and a few other ones. They use the year then month like 8204 (April 1982)
W is world this is actually a Korean not Chinsese Company.
There is also another Z that was on the Silver Cadet that was Woo-sin, that place burned down and so did the S&N factory. (I went to all of these places man I have stories.)
Any other serial number questions, just ask I know them all.
Jim"
Most important part:
"H is the funniest H7 is Terrada a comapy in Nagoya Japan that makes mostly Gretsch guitars, This was a disaster and they made H7 for 3 years on the serial numbers, H must have ment for Hoshino."
So we know that H7 covers 3 YEARS IN ROW, question is: WHICH YEARS?
Is the fact that the serial number in question ends on 86 purely coincidence or does it mean something in relation to the year it was built in?
And if there is a relation, does it go for the last two digits or for the last digit only?
Because if H7 just stands for Terada, and you use two digits for the year, there are only three digits left for the production number covering a year's production. If they used only the last digit for the year, there are four digits left. That's 9999 full sized hollow body Ibanez jazz boxes per year. (They were specialized in Gretsch manufacturing). In 260 working days that means 38 jazz boxes a day, perhaps next to what they were making for other brands like Gretsch.
So, H7 only means: this guitar was made by Terada during the 3 years they used the H7 serial numbers. I don't know yet which 3 years Jim Donahue was referring to.
Neither do I know if they put a year code in the serial number, and if so what code it was.
Conclusion: it is not impossible that John was right about 1986 being indeed the last production year of the FG100. And it is not impossible that they didn't build FG100s from leftovers in 1987. The 7 has nothing to do with 87 in the case of Terada, says Jim Donahue.
It is not impossible that the mentioned production years in the French ads were based on wrong assumptions and that there are no 1987 FG100s at all.
So...
What is the correct production year of your FG100?
To be continued... |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:56 pm: | |
Man, I think you're making a huge confusion.... .. Wow..
As I remember it from other threads discussing the "H7 for Terada", the first year was 1987, and that they kept using it for 3 years.. that's the mess...
Anyway, the FG100 was "substituted" by the AFs in 87. (AF200 .. + later AF120, AF207 and the rockabilly AF220 in 1998, the only one using the same fingerboard inlays as the FG100)
Starting in 1987 the F holes and head stock/inlays changed.. but, it's very possible that some guitars made in 87 used parts from previous years... reason why it would have an 87 serial with earlier features.
In short, yes it could be a 87 made FG100.. but it would most likely be a guitar made out of left over parts from previous years. Unless somebody come up with a 1987 Catalog showing the jazz boxes (FG included) or a FG100 with the modern F holes and different head stock to prove this wrong, it was dropped from production at the end of 1986.
Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's all figured out and the case is closed... Those are just the facts I found in the last 3 years searching around the net and discussing here about the FG100. |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:09 pm: | |
I have seen a couple '86 Roadstars with F7***** serial numbers. I always assumed that Fuji continued production of the '86 models into '87 tp use up the parts.
The Bear |
Acetan
Username: Acetan
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:30 pm: | |
Now this is my FG100NT.
Ace
 |
Acetan
Username: Acetan
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:40 pm: | |
More pictures of my FG100. They can be brothers.
Ace
 |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:55 pm: | |
It's not me who's making the confusion, I'm quoting Jim Donahue! He's the one who didn't say when they started using H7 for 3 years...
He just said they did...
My question was: "which 3 years?"
Your answer implies: 1987-'88-'89
That's not impossible, but when I say "not impossible", this doesn't imply it's a fact, but it could be...
It would be nice if someone like Jim Donahue, mr Roadstar, or Captain Cameron... people with source material or source knowledge because they worked there, would give us the answers and if possible formulated more precisely.
When did Terada start producing Ibanez guitars/ jazz boxes?
What serial numbers did they use in each production year?
What logic was there in the serial numbers Terada gave their Ibanez products?
An '87 catalogue with FG100s in it would not automatically mean that the FG100 was produced in '87. It would mean that you have something in stock that you want to sell. But that it was made in '87 using leftover parts from 1986 is just NOT IMPOSSIBLE, no more no less.
Toyota built Celica Liftbacks in 1988 with 1987 suspension (and shocks) and with 1988 suspension (and shocks). You'll find out when you order 1988 shocks and discover that they don't fit on your (August) 1988 car with the modern '88 stickered spoiler. (ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF JAPANESE THRIFT).
It's just as you say, we need good sources or good source material, or else we know nothing and we're just parroting unreliable sources. And no, this case isn't closed...
Ginger Ale |
Markownly
Username: Markownly
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
Damn,, I got a headache from reading this thread!!!   |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:32 pm: | |
Frank Zappa had a series of albums called "Shut up and play your guitar".
 |
Markownly
Username: Markownly
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 7:31 am: | |
Good one Freak!!!  |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 8:10 am: | |
Yeah Freak, it is a good one.
But hey, it’s a simple discussion…. I’m sure we’re not getting in one of those big arguments… it’s just that it sounds worse written down than it would if we would be talking around the table.
I realized I missed a point. Apologies.
That was:
Whether the FG100 model was a regular line product in 87 or not, isn’t the case here, right? If it was assembled in 87 that makes it an 87 FG100, even if it was made out of left over parts from previous years. Agreed?
So, here we have two 87 blond FG100s.
Now, if it was an 87 regular product or not, just an 87 catalog pic/ad would show it.
The Ibanez catalogs show the production line, not what’s left over in the stock. Correct me somebody if I’m wrong.
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear… I said the info from catalogs and ads were a fact, as well as the info on this forum in particular from Jim Donahue, Mr. Roadstar and Cap.Ibanez was from good reliable sources. The Terada H7 issue is still conjectural, but based on info from Jim D. If you read in that thread, you’ll see that right under JD post I ask him about this issue and John follows with another question. Unfortunately JD is a very busy guy and can’t always spend time here.
If you find that 87 cat you'll have one of the rarest pieces in Ibanez literature. Please, share it with us. |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:11 am: | |
btw...i'm only an Ibanez beginner,it would seem strange to me that you guys didn't now this page...do you already know it,isn't it??
http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/index.htm
unfortunately the '87 catalogue seems to be incomplete...
thank you for all the posts,my first post had a discreet success ;P
cé |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:26 am: | |
!!!!
and...what about this one???
http://cgi.ebay.it/Vintage-Ibanez-FG-100-FG100-archtop-guitar-Metheny-EXC_W0QQit emZ280006509716QQihZ018QQcategoryZ33043QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:28 am: | |
!!!!
and...what about this one???
http://cgi.ebay.it/Vintage-Ibanez-FG-100-FG100-archtop-guitar-Metheny-EXC_W0QQit emZ280006509716QQihZ018QQcategoryZ33043QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
H88..... |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:33 am: | |
We definitely know Ibanezrules.com.
As you observed, there's just the JEM 87 cat. A complete line cat is still to be found (if it actually was ever printed)
That blond FG on eBay got some attention some time ago (some other thread). |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
I've just sold my 1982 FG100. If you're interested, Makisono (also from ICW) is selling his. Do a search and you'll find his name with email address. |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 2:21 pm: | |
Ce that ebay one is 86! |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 2:27 pm: | |
"If it was assembled in 87 that makes it an 87 FG100, even if it was made out of left over parts from previous years. Agreed? "
No. Calendar year and model year are two different items. As I stated with the Roadstars, I have seen '86 models with '87 serial numbers. The '87 models used a different headstock among other things.
What the H*ll difference does it make, anyway? Why does it matter if it's not a regular production model? It's not like it affects the resale value. It's an Ibanez not a Gibson...
The Bear |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 3:29 pm: | |
Hello, I'm not talking about resale, value...
I agree with you about the year technicality. I just said that it would be an 87 as an 87 born baby is from 87. But a guitar is not a baby of course... so, the 87 Roadstar is different from the 86 because it kept being offered, thus, the new product took in the new features. While with the FG100 it didn't happened (or it seems until now for lack of a strong evidence like a catalog or an instrument with the 87 f holes, headstock etc.).
If you guys read a bit more careful the earlier posts it's already all in there.
I said, (as far as evidence goes) there's no 1987 FG100... But obviously there're FG100s made in 87 with left over parts... So, it's from 87... but not an 87 offered model.
In it's place (in the jazz box line), came the AFs... assuming the FG shape but with fancier appointments.
FG100s were offered between 1982 and 1986 (as far as evidence goes)
Were they made in 87? Yes, but with left over parts from previous years... UNLESS WE COME TO FIND AN CAT SHOWING IT IN THE REGULAR LINE UP... I find it very unlikely since I have never (in the last 4 years looking around for FG100s) seen one with the 1987 features.
That's all I want to say.
It started with me trying to help CÉ with some info about the year and quality of Terada products. I felt it was important to mention those possibilities because in the last weeks there were some fake Ibanez jazz boxes being offered around. This could be another one.
Read the thread from the beginning. |
Orval
Username: Orval
Registered: 03-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 7:27 pm: | |
i had lunch with paul specht last week, paul has worked at hoshino for nearly 25 years. i asked him during the conversation about the 87 catalogs specifically, he confirmed that there was no full line catalog in 1987. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 8:03 pm: | |
Like FG100 says, it's a simple discussion on the interpretation of H7 serial numbers, but it's a discussion that is elementary for dating guitars built in a certain period in the Terada factory.
Many of us are wearing two hats. So am I. I am a musician and a guitar collector.
Trying to end discussions on a COLLECTORS' forum with the slogan "shut up and play" is perhaps an indication that you are wearing a different hat at the moment.
It doesn't help us finding the truth. And beleive me we're making some serious efforts to find the truth not only on H7*****, but also on H8***** and H9***** because these numbers exist!
If H7 stands for Terada 87 and was used in 88 and 89 as well, like Jim Donahue says, how do we explain the existence and the meaning of the following nummers next to H7*****:
H80****;
H81****;
H82****;
H83****;
H84****;
H85****;
H86****;
H87****;
H88****;
H89****;
H90****;
H91****;
H92****;
H93****;
H94****;
H95****;
H96****;
H97****;
H98****;
H99****;
H0*****;
H1*****;
H2*****;
H3*****;
H4*****;
H5*****;
H6*****?
This is based on the assumption that Joe Pass Wannabe is right about the start of this system in 87 instead of Cappy's first assumption that it would have started in 84. (In that case they should have stopped the system before 94.)
If the system worked as explained in Joe Pass Wannebe's table, this could mean a lot of wrongly dated Ibanez guitars.
Just click on search on top of an ICW page and type H8 <enter>
and look how many guitars with H80**** were dated August 1980. Why not Terada 1988?
H81**** August 1981. Why not Terada 1988?
H82**** August 1982. Why not Terada 1988?
And so on, and so on...
That second digit could be related to the overall year production because if you are using overall year production numbers you need all 5 digits!
I did this already in my search for the truth and found out there are a lot owners or buyers of semi-acoustics and jazzboxes with H8***** numbers who have asked ICW members to help them dating their guitars (often unseen, so based on the serial number only). And possibly we dated them up to 8 years too early. (August 80 instead of Terada 88).
I hope you can all still sleep...
but the mess could be bigger than we suspected...
|
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 8:58 pm: | |
It was a joke Ginger Ale lighten up! But it does give me a headache! |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 11:09 pm: | |
Jeezuz, let's beat a dead horse some more, eh?
After 1986 the letter prefix is the factory NOT the month of manufacture. Why? Because prior to 1987 virtually all the guitars were made by Fuji Gen Gakki so there was no need to designate the factory!
When the change was made, H became the code letter for Terada. There was some confusion on their part as to the serial number system so H7***** got used past 1987. Regardless, they built top notch hollow and semi-hollow body guitars.
So ya found an '87 FG100. Woopee! Oddball Ibanez guitars are commonplace.
Ya'll seem to be hung up on an insignificant issue.
The Bear |
Acetan
Username: Acetan
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 11:33 pm: | |
So how many fairies did you say can stand on this pin-head? |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:32 am: | |
Like you, Mr. Roadstar, I was there when we discussed about all this. So, I had no need to talk about this again.
Like I said, I just tried to help Cé with some info and the talk got dragged into the H7 thing.
Nevertheless, it's true that after JD wrote that, I asked about the H8 on a model that appeared in 1987 and was not offered in 98, so, is it an 88? If yes, did they use H7 and H8 together during 1988?
I never got an answer for that.
About the cat 87, we had assumed a long time ago in some other thread, that it never existed probably because it was a transitional year with a lot of changes. So, no need for that either. (not for me)
Ginger is new around here and I was trying to pass this to him without saying I know it all. But I felt just like you... oh no. Not the serial bla again...
Ibanezfreak, I know you were joking and that you meant it well… to cool things down. Although it wasn’t that how yet. |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:33 am: | |
typo ... I meant "it wan't that hot yet".. |
Ce
Username: Ce
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 4:27 pm: | |
growing family....
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170007970456&ssPageName=ADME:B :SS:IT:1 |
Fg100
Username: Fg100
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 4:53 pm: | |
The price is a bit high.
The pickguard looks altered.
The bridge is not the original.
It’s rare to find an FG100 with the original case. (obs.: the original case didn't offer much protection. The new ones are better... But it's the original).
It's in France... blond... maybe the same being offered on the other site.
Another low production number.. possibly one more being assembled in early 87 with left parts from 86.
In the last weeks in Holland I saw a blond with original case, good shape, all original for E650 (low price)... |