| Author |
Message |
Trickeydave
Username: Trickeydave
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 12:44 pm: | |
I just wanted to get some opinions on whether or not swapping out stock pots for higher quality (CTS?) ones really makes that much difference in tone. I have an AK85 Artcore and am thinking of replacing the stock pups with the Benedetto A-6 and replacing the pots at the same time. And also...250k vs. 500K? Your thoughts? |
Ratfinks3
Username: Ratfinks3
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:29 am: | |
The pots won't matter as long as they are 500K, and get some with a 5% tollerance. The caps will make a difference however. I changed my .223 to .047 and got a warmer tone sounding more like an older ES335. Look at my link here on 7-12-06 titled AS80 replacement pots, or something like that. Ginger was a big help. Good luck Mike |
Ratfinks3
Username: Ratfinks3
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 3:32 am: | |
I forgot to tell ya. Get Audio Taper for tone and Lenier Taper for Volume. |
Trickeydave
Username: Trickeydave
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 12:30 am: | |
I noticed Benedetto (Duncan Seymour) recommends 250K pots for added warmth. Can you explain Audio Taper & Lenier Taper??? Not sure what you mean by that. I'll check out the 7-12 post. Thanks for the suggestions! |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 1:24 am: | |
By the way, are you sure about not using audio taper pots for volume? My understanding is that tone and volume pots both use audio taper (as opposed to linear) - the difference is that the tone pot has a capacitor to bleed off treble. I could be wrong though. |
Ratfinks3
Username: Ratfinks3
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 - 4:21 am: | |
the linear pots will gain much faster. Audio is slower and more gradual. Use orange drop caps as they have a copper base and should be better and last longer. Use a 15mm shaft I believe, as the CTS gibson pots are two thick and you need to do drilling. The caps are the real difference. Seriously look at my thread on 7-12-06 and you'll actually see photos on the wiring for gibs and ibanez. I found the mini pots work well. Ibanez has the replacement pots on their web page which is also on my thread mentioned above. Ginger was a big help for me and his ideas worked fantastic. mike |
Glennm
Username: Glennm
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 5:11 pm: | |
Wildfield:
You're right. Volume pot should be log taper and tone pot should be linear taper.
Some people might like the way a linear pot in a volume application causes huge response from just a few degrees of rotation...but a taper pot is generally used for volume control. |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:34 pm: | |
Slightly off topic; can anyone suggest a website or websites that offer good information on installing pickups and detailed information on potentiometers, capacitors, etc. as they relate to pickups and tone?
I'd also be interested to learn more about recommended brand/types of pots, wiring, caps, etc., that produce favorable results.
Any websites specializing in this kind of information? Where have you found the best information? |
Glennm
Username: Glennm
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 2:41 am: | |
Information pertaining to tone pot modification and treble bypass capacitor for volume pots can be found here:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/menu.php
I have no experience with their products, but you might be interested in checking out these folks, who make a 16-position tone pot. It basically switches in different RC networks to provide more filtering options. It is a little pricey, though.
http://store.stellartone.com/Detail.bok?no=4 |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 11:07 am: | |
$250.= is a rip-off for two variotone switches with too many positions. The number of sound presets is enormous:
16 in rythm position
16 in lead position
16x16= 256 in mid position
TOTAL: 288 presets
I think ONE variotone switch offers enough sound presets in combination with the 3-way pick-up selector:
6 x 3 = 18
That's already a lot to remember for a simple guitarist. If a guitarist must remember 288 presets, he forgets to play!
What's good about it: it's made by CTS.
But I'd rather buy two normal CTS tonepots for about $4.= a piece with good capacitors and my sound possibilities would be endless!
Compare it with your TV: who would buy $250.= for 288 chanel presets? who would remember them?
who uses all 99 presets at the moment? With 288 presets, you start zapping up and down till you find something nice, like we do on the guitar when we're turning normal tone pots.
There are better ways to spend $250.=. If you want a variotone for not too much money, buy a second hand Aria Pro II TA-61, made in the same factory as the Ibanez ArtStar AS-120.
(I've got two of them in different sunburst colors. I installed a golden Ibanez vibrato system on the stopbar studs of one of them).
After the TA-61 came the TA-62, which I never played, but it should be somewhat the same.
If you spend your money on a guitar instead of on these pots, there is a far better chance to get your investment back, if you in the future decide to sell or trade. You won't get $250.= extra when you sell a customized Ibanez Artcore.
Too make a long story short:
Make simple improvements with simple parts, or buy another guitar with the wanted feature on board.
Ginger |
Wildfield
Username: Wildfield
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 3:23 pm: | |
Glennm,
Thanks for the links. I'll check 'em out when I get home. |
Glennm
Username: Glennm
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 06, 2006 - 6:40 pm: | |
Wildfield:
My pleasure!
Gemberbier:
As for the Tonestyler stuff, I don't see myself spending the money, but I found it interesting from a technical point of view.
I could probably just set my tone for 10 and mess with my POD XT live post EQ to get similar tone capabilities. But when it comes down to having the control near at hand, that's a big advantange. |
Oakland
Username: Oakland
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 12:34 pm: | |
Am I right that the tone capacitor only changes the range of the tone control? For example if the range of the tone knob with a .223 is 1 to 10, than the range with a .047 will be something like "7 to -3"? In other words, unless you are currently playing at the very top or bottom of the tone dial and want even more brighter/ darker, the resulting sound is exactly the same (but with the knob in a different positon.) |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 3:14 pm: | |
Before I give you the link I gave already in another thread, the most important part of the page in plain text:
"Tone control
A standard tone control consists of a capacitor, connected in series with a variable resistance. The way this works, is as follows: a capacitor conducts electricity in a better way as frequency increases. By connecting the capacitor between signal and ground, high frequencies will be "short-circuited", and low tones will pass. The amount of "grounded" high tones can be controlled by the variable resistance.
The value of the capacitor determines its frequency response. The higher the capacitance, the more high tones will be grounded. Capacitance is expressed in the µF unit, "micro-Farads". For guitars, capacitors between 0.02µF and 0.05µF are used. This only counts if you use them together with 470~500kOhm pots. The value of the capacitor should be around 0.02µF if the pick-up it controls has a high impedance (like a humbucker), and around 0.05µF if the pick-up is low-impedance (e.g. a single-coil Stratocaster pick-up).
For the pot, the same comment on grounding and type is to be taken into consideration. There are other ways of creating a variable resistor from a pot, e.g. by just grounding only the middle pin, or grounding the rightmost pin and connecting the signal at the middle pin, and leaving the remaining unconnected. This is not recommended, however, because the unconnected pin of the pot will be "dangling", causing noise on your signal. The more grounded stuff in your circuit, the less noise."
Source:
http://www.dr-lex.34sp.com/guitar/guitarelectronics.html
The idea is, that in jazz boxes, you use the .047 for the NECK tone control. And the .0223 in the BRIDGE tone control.
This way you get one very warm sounding Rythm/Jazz pickup and one bright sounding Lead/Rock pickup. And for blues you mix the two of them.
Give it a try! It's not irreversible...
Ginger |
Oakland
Username: Oakland
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 5:46 pm: | |
Ah! If I'm reading this right, a .047 uf cap will "target" a greater range of high end frequencies to bleed to ground than a .022 does, and in both cases, the pot controls how much the targeted frequencies are rolled off. So, the .047 "reaches down" into the high-mids more than the .002. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 5:55 pm: | |
That's right.
Mike aka Ratfinks3 did this and is very enthusiastic about the result.
Ginger |
Hazy
Username: Hazy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 9:21 pm: | |
I forgot how it works...
If I want more treble, do I reduce the capacitor size? What caps are standard in the AS120?
Thanks,
Rick |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 9:37 pm: | |
Yes, that's about it.
You could also remove it. Then it's a "hot rod".
Click on the part number in the link:
http://www.ibanez.com/parts/2000_PARTS/El-Guitar/SPEC-SHEET/AS120.htm
and you find:
.022 microfarad
Ginger |
Hazy
Username: Hazy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 10:13 pm: | |
Ginger,
Thanks! I might just replace the 0.022uf cap to start with. I did that with my LP and I used Philips Mustard caps. I really think that the quality of the cap makes a difference. I'll probably use SoZo caps...here http://www.sozoamplification.com/purchase.html
No affiliation with this guy...he makes great replacement vintage caps.
Rick |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2006 - 7:45 am: | |
Bookmarked.
What seems very special are vintage Bumble Bee capacitors. They were used in the '59 Les Paul.
Ginger |
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