Ibanez 335 type pecking order??

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Author Message Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2006 - 12:14 pm:    ok, so im coming around to the fact that id like, need , a very good ibanez 335 type axe, for playing jazz and blues in my band, i already have the china as 73, so can some one put into order and perspective, ie. as 100 as 120 as 200 jsm etc etc. thanks again. jazzz Jonnie73 Username: Jonnie73 Registered: 09-2006 Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 6:28 am:    Have you looked at the noahjames web site. he's put together a list of the artist hollow range. As you will see it depends on the year of manufacture. it looks like he's done some good work here. where the AM and AS range come in they sort of run in parallel. The Am205 is pretty much the same as the AS200, same hardware sup58's in gold, block inlay etc except the body sizing is smaller. In 1983 it seems that the small body AM range was born from the AS-50 style of that year. Around this time the AS80 was added to the larger AS-100 and 200 range to cover that part of the market. I'm not sure if this is exact info and am very interested in what happened in 83 with these guitars so if any one has any more info to offer I wuold certainly appreciate it. That noahjames link: http://www.noahjames.com/vintagepage/as.html Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, September 08, 2006 - 5:37 pm:    'The Am205 is pretty much the same as the AS200'...I'm not sure I agree with that. Anyway, I think the 335 lineup was: 2629 -> AS100 (full-bodied 335) (dot inlay) 2630 -> AS200 (full-bodied 335) (block inlay) The 2629/30 was in the late 70's and was replaced by the AS100/AS200 in 1980. There was also an SA series in the late 70's. I don't think too many were made, however, they pop up from time to time. Along with the AS100/200, there was also an AS50 which was a scaled down 335. The AM line was even more smaller. btw...I have a '79 2630 which is one serious guitar! Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 11:59 am:    In most model runs, Ibanez has had 2 AS models that share the same construction, but differ cosmetically, so you'll get the same quality and playabilty, just more or less flash. For instance, in the '90s, there were the 2 Korean models and the 2 Japan models. Most people, myself included, prefer the Japan models. The Japan AS guitars from the different eras are all great, but they have different personalities. It's hard to say which was better, because it comes down to personal preference. There was a thread a while back comparing the '80s AS200 to the JSM. The AS200 is very sought after, and is the definitive Ibanez semi. But some of the lower end Japan models probably just as good, and can be had for less. I (personally) stay away from the Korean models. By the time you fix the fretwork and pickups, you could've just bought a MIJ model. The higher end Chinese models have a lot of potential, but haven't been around long enough to rank high on the vibe or mojo scale '70s Japan models: Per MKs post above '80s Japan models AS50 - per MKs description AS100 - Dot inlay, chrome AS200 - block inlay, flame maple, Gold '90s Japan Artstar models: AS180 - Dot inlay, chrome AS200 - block inlay, flame maple, Gold Both share the same construction I've seen the occasional MIJ AS80. '90s Korean Artstar models: AS80 - Dot inlay, chrome AS120 - block inlay, Gold Both share the same construction 2000s In order of price/quality: AS73 & AS83 (China) AS103 ('04 to present,China) AS193 ('03, China/Japan) JSM (Japan, replaced AS200) Joevocht Username: Joevocht Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 1:15 pm:    Well, you could instruct members to stay away from Korean models, but I'll put my AS120 against any 335 type guitar you can produce including the AS200!! Been playing for more than 55 years and have played them all, and I mean all (used to own a music store on Long Island). And an aside... I usually use thomastik jazz 11-50's but lately tried out some round wound d'addario 9's and OH MY, this guitar is so versatile e.g. sounds great with any combination of strings , amps etc... Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 2:02 pm:    Joevocht, I am certainly not "instructing" members to stay away from Korean models. That's why I said "I (personally) stay away from the Korean models" Your opinion is just as -Sven Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 2:32 pm:    ...important as mine. Sorry, premature send button Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 2:44 pm:    OK I HEAR YA, i have the chinease as 73 cherry red , all stock, so, if i get say the mij or korean as 120 or better, will i notice a real difference in Sound, Playablilty. etc. sure i d love a flame tope, but i want a very good player, and it must sound killer, thanks jazz Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 3:26 pm:    Jaz, I had an AS80 (Korean) and it was a decent guitar. Not very "acoustic", but it could cover a lot of ground. I eventually sold it to buy a full hollowbody. I was not in the market for another semi, but I saw an AS200 on ebay last year at a price that was too low to pass up. It's an '81 just like Scofield's. When I got it, I was immediately really startled by the tone. Both plugged in and unplugged, it has a clear, powerful midrange resonance that I've never heard before. The instrument is very alive, and you can really feel the vibrations coming off the thing. I'm not sure if they're all like that. Ibanez hyped the fact that the center block was carefully fitted to the top and back, and this resulted in better tone - I'm thinking there's something to this. The AS80, in comparison, just had much less character, and didn't have a tone that I could use for jazz. It was less acoustically active/alive, and was very solid and heavy. IMO, It was probably better suited to heavily processed modern rock sounds. Not do diminish Joevocht's experience with his AS120, but in my opinion, the Chinese AS73/83 are in the same league, if not better than the Korean AS80/120, even though it cost less. I believe the fretwork is better on the Artcores, and soundwise they are similar. To see an improvement, you may want to look at the AS103, or AS193 (if you can find one) both around $500-600. Both of these guitars have stellar fretwork. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 8:18 pm:    "'80s Japan models AS50 - per MKs description AS100 - Dot inlay, chrome AS200 - block inlay, flame maple, Gold" Funkle, you hit all of the 'AS' models but left out the incredible 335 killer...'80's LR10. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 9:35 pm:    Yeah, and there was the AS400 too - neck through body. I figured I'd leave out the really rare ones. But I bet the LR10 is killer. You have one? -Sven Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 11:15 pm:    so, am i wasting my time putting super 58s on my artcore as73? i mean is there a major leap to the other s that you mentioned,the other question, is the as 73 guitar, made somewhat inferior, ie. neck pocket, neck construction, interior block etc etc, as compared to the 120 200 etc Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 12:51 pm:    Dear Funkle, I wrote something last night in my text processor, because I got perhaps a bit angry about your indirect advice to stay away from Korean AS models and because I experience my AS120 as my best blues guitar. Jazzzbo is, as I saw in other question very insecure about his decisions, and I think you're leading him too much in the direction of buying and upgrading Chinese models, which is IMO not the right way to get an affordable and collectible good blues guitar. And when a linguist/translator is angry, his fingers move fast, as if he's on the job and gets paid per word. Look what you caused: "Funkle, After reading your opinion on Korean guitars, which include my beloved AS120, from which you have always stayed away, thus never even tried, I just had to write something in defense of my axe, based on arguments, such as my own experience and statistics of 25 reviews of this model compared to reviews of other AS models. What do you mean by: "I (personally) stay away from the Korean models. By the time you fix the fretwork and pickups, you could've just bought a MIJ model."???? The AS120 was the more affordable Korean version of the AS200 and it was half the price (about €900.=), but it had the same pickups (SUPER 58s). You're suggesting that it is a guitar with bad pickups and a badly finished frets that needs a lot of work (€900,=). That's bull... I don't know how the AS80 is, but their reviews are totally different. This is probably because of one "PeteMCW" who bought an AS80 with unfinished frets. This one must have slipped through at quality control, because all other reviewers are as enthusiastic as the AS120 reviewers. AS80 reviews on Harmony Central: Features 8.0 (28 responses) Sound 8.8 (29 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.5 (28 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.4 (24 responses) Overall Rating 9.3 (27 responses) AS120 reviews on Harmony Central: Features 8.8 (24 responses) Sound 9.6 (25 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 9.0 (21 responses) Reliability/Durability 9.6 (24 responses) Overall Rating 9.6 (22 responses) The 7 that PeteMCW gave the AS80 on Action, Fit & Finish and the 8 Chuck Beatty gave his second hand AS80 (bought with .009 strings!) and two 6es (at least one of them with .009 strings) pulls the AS80 down from 8.79 (8.8) to 8.5 which only shows semi-acoustics and other set necks need at least .010 strings to get a good sound (not to thin) and a good action (not too low, which might cause string buzz). But there's a difference of 0.9 in Action, Fit & Finish rating and of 0.8 in Sound rating between the AS120 and the AS80 in favour of the AS120. So the there must be more than cosmethic differences between these two models. Perhaps the setup and quality control on the more expensive AS120 model were better. As an owner of a beautiful AS 120 I can say that there is NO REASON to “stay away from Korean AS models”. They are basically good guitars but they were often setup with too light strings, and there seems to have been some inconsistency in quality control of the cheaper AS80. What I know about my AS120, that came back almost new to the shop of Joep Egmond (the grandson of), is that there had been a problem with too sharp bridge saddles, a problem that also occurs on Korean Epiphone Les Pauls of the 90s. Joep's guitar tech Tom solved it, but the first owner said he'd rather have an Epiphone Sheraton II instead. This all happened just before the online shop caused Musica to go bankrupt, so I bought it a good price. It has good Super 58s and no fret problems. It's the most bluesy and most beautiful ES-335 I've got, since a put a bound tortoise pickguard on it (like on the AS200). I read the original pickguard can cause static electric shocks. I keep it in the case. If there would have been any reason to be negative about this guitar, I would have got rid of it years ago, because I've got three ES-335 types and two ES-345 types. So enough trading material to get one MIJ AS200 if necessary. There is no need to drag down a guitar that gets an average overall rating of 9.6 and the same score on Sound and Reliability/Durability from 22-25 users. Compare this to: the AS200: Features 9.4 (16 responses) Sound 9.8 (16 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.5 (16 responses) Reliability/Durability 9.1 (14 responses) Customer Support 6.0 (3 responses) Overall Rating 9.8 (16 responses) the AS73: Features 8.5 (37 responses) Sound 8.4 (38 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.6 (39 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.5 (32 responses) Overall Rating 8.9 (37 responses) the AS73SB (whatever the difference may be): Features 8.2 (10 responses) Sound 9.4 (10 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 9.2 (9 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.6 (9 responses) Overall Rating 9.7 (10 responses) (So sunbursts are better guitars? This stinks! one user called 'none' gave two reviews, and the only grade he knows is 10. Two of the 10 swapped the PUs one for DiMarzio PAF-Joe and PAF-Pro plus a 3-way switch [blade], better jack, pots, and a Gibson T.O.M. bridge and the other for Harmonic Z-90), so what are these 10 reviews worth? I think we should ignore at least 3 or 4 of them. If we delete one 9 and three 10s for Sound we'd get an average of 9.16 for the sunburst. Doesn't make sense if you ask me. But if we ad all 10 sunburst reviews to the 39 other AS73 we get the following results: the AS73 (n=49): Features 8.4 (47 responses) Sound 8.6 (48 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.7 (48 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.5 (41 responses) Overall Rating 9.1 (47 responses) the AS83: Features 8.4 (30 responses) Sound 8.6 (28 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.8 (30 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.6 (23 responses) Overall Rating 8.9 (29 responses) the AS103 NT: Features 8.6 (5 responses) Sound 9.0 (5 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.0 (5 responses) Reliability/Durability 9.5 (2 responses) Overall Rating 8.4 (5 responses) the AS180: Features 9.1 (7 responses) Sound 9.5 (6 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 7.5 (6 responses) Reliability/Durability 8.8 (6 responses) Overall Rating 9.7 (6 responses) the AS193: Features 10.0 (4 responses) Sound 9.6 (5 responses) Action, Fit, & Finish 8.6 (5 responses) Reliability/Durability 9.8 (4 responses) Overall Rating 9.8 (4 responses) What we see here is that the Chinese high end models, like the Custom AS103NT (with Super 58 Custom pickups) haven't reached the ratings of the AS120 yet, but they could perhaps in the future, after more than 25 reviews. But they are the only Chinese Artcores with good pickups. I don't consider the AS193 a Chinese guitar. They only use Chinese bodies for it. It's a “united” production and has for instance a Japanese Prestige neck. The AS73 and AS83 with ACH1 and ACH2 will IMO never reach this level, unless you buy expensive new pickups and good pots and capacitors. You make lots of cost and end up with an Ibanez that isn't original anymore, a customized player. Just look what happened to the customized AM205 yesterday on ebay, highest bid: $610,= and $176.50 for the original parts. (The guy wanted $1,800 for the lot.) The AS120 is good as it is. And has perhaps even more vintage potential than an Epiphone Sheraton II, because it has better pickups. You won't have to swap them to get a decent blues sound. So Jazzzbo, if you can get one second hand for 1/2-2/3 of the new price, (€450-€600) grab it! You won't regret it! Oh yeah, and use at least .010 (or .011) roundwound strings. (Depends on how strong your hands are: as long you're able to make bends). Keep in mind that a second hand AS200 will cost about €900-€1,200 (For dollars multiply by 1,27). Greetz, Ginger" Congrats, Funkle! You caused the longest quote in ICW history! Jazzzbo, if you have the Super 58s already, put them in, and perhaps some 500 KOhm CTS pots and good capacitors (search for Ratfinks3 and his AS80 pots problem). But remember that it is a mediocre guitar as it is (with the ACH1 and ACH2) and will become probably a good player because of your upgrade, not a collectible (no harm done, there's nothing wrong with good players, they can be a joy for life!) And no, I don't think that's waisting time. The money was already spent and you can't spend it twice. Confidence man! You can make it work! Ratfinks3 did it too with his AS80 and he's a happy man now. Be nice to your ears and put them in! Good luck, Ginger Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 10, 2006 - 10:21 pm:    Thanks for the input. i think the bottom line like anything is to see it, hear it , play it, but for now i just may get some super 58s and gear up for an as120 or similar, the as 73 being a good player as a back up makes sense too-- jazzz Mandocaster Username: Mandocaster Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 9:35 pm:    Don't forget MIJ AS-80's. They are 335 size. I have an 86 that is really nice. Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 9:08 pm:    Great thread, guys! Question: How can you tell from the serial number if an AS80 or AS120 is from Cort or Samick? Thanks-- Scott Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 9:28 pm:    From all of the info on the forum, my AS120 is a Korean Samick, serial number #S503xxxx, made in 1995. I think that some of the Cort-produced AS120s have a serial number as #Cxxxxxxx. Ginger can chime in on this. BTW, the Super 50s are the worst of the pickup lot from the Korean AS120s. Rick Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 10:10 pm:    Rick, You assumed well. Cort used Cxxxxxxx. You need this only for guitars with Mickey Mouse ears. The KOREAN pointed wolf ears are all made by Cort. This goes also for those that have NO LETTER in their serial number. (Mine for instance has 206xxxx). The Super 50's are only in the Samicks, the Corts have decent wax potted Super 58's. Ginger Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 12:24 am:    What finishes were the Korean Cort factory Mickey Mouse (Disney) ears available in for the AS80 and 120? Thanks-- Scott Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, December 09, 2006 - 5:35 am:    OK, there we go. First the German catalogues: These catalogues were printed after the production move and from that moment on there were no AS80's available for Germany. VS (Vintage Sunburst) in 1995 http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1995_gesamt.pdf and VS (Vintage Sunburst) in 1996: http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1996_gesamt.pdf Then the USA: In 1995 they pictured the WH (white) AS120, which was made by Samick like the 1994ers (reserve some extra money for new pickups or buy your mrs a new deep fryer). The German catalogue was printed later. In those first months of 1995 there was an AS80 available in VS (Vintage Sunburst): http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/us/1995/95025.jpg In 1996 the AS80 was available in NT (natural)and VS for the USA The AS120 was available in TR (Translucent Red): http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/us/1995/95025.jpg I don't know about any other catalogues. Ginger Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 9:35 pm:    Thank you Ginger-- BTW, I can get a good deal on an AS80 serial number 9080XXX. From this pics, it seems to be a wolfman, not a mickey mouse. Can you tell from the serial number if it's a Cort or a Samick? There's no letter in the serial number. By the way, for sound, would you (and anybody else in the know out there) say an old 2629 or 2630 blows away the AS80? Thanks! Scott Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:39 pm:    Since Samick made only Mickey Mouse models, it's a Cort manufactured in 1999 (August). The last ones were made in 2001. I never owned a 2629 or 2630 or an AS80, so that would be guessing, which wouldn't help you any further. Mike aka Ratfinks3 says his AS120 is better than the AS80's he owned, but even better than his orange label Gibson ES-335. The 2629 and 2630 are real vintage collectors pieces. The MIK Artstars aren't (yet). These cheaper AS80's are suitable as stand-ins if you're playing in a bar with a small stage. You don't have to bother about its collectors value. Ginger Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 10:57 pm:    Thanks a lot, man. I think you also mentioned that all the AS80's without letters in the serial number are Corts. That helps a lot. Hopefully, there are no exceptions. Excellent point, Ginger, about the AS80 being a 335 type you can play out with, without worrying too much about damage not because they aren't good, but now the prices are excellent for what they are, and you could snap a replacement up on ebay fairly quickly at good price. You can probably tell, I am in the market for a 335-type. I had a nice one (non-Ibanez) I gave away, and I miss it. It's hard to decide which way to go... Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, December 11, 2006 - 11:02 pm:    I know of only one wolfman that's not made by Cort: the AS200 of the late 90's-2001. Ginger

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