PM100 on the premises.

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Author Message   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 6:22 am:    My "PM105" project shall come to a halt: I found an used PM100 bushed here in Rome at a good price and jumped in. So, now I have all those features I wanted in another pack... I have yet to do a good setup, but this instrument has jazz strings on it and I played it for a couple of hours yesterday. My first impressions are very positive. It seems great for fingerstyle, warm humbucker tone but with a very nice ring and eccellent definition. I'll shot some decent pictures and post a review soon. Hey! i'm happy with my new baby.   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 10:35 am:    Petruz, Congratulations and nice looking axe. Looks like it has Gotoh Delta Tuner...nice. Looking forward to your additional photos. Looks like a nice score.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 2:07 pm:    Thanks wildfield. The Gotohs are great. These are 18:1 but there are models wich arrive at 21:1; there's one with ebony buttons wich is REALLY nice. The serial of this guitar is F97143. I suppose it's an '97 but I expected one more digit (according to Mr. Roadstar). Any opinions? As far as I know PM100s were introduced in 1996. There is no serial number inside, label says The original issue PAT METHENY PM-100 designed and approved by (Pat's signature) Made in Japan The serial numbers on the headstock are "old styled", no "CE".   Artfield Username: Artfield Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 2:16 pm:    Petruz , very Nice guitar , Parabens !!!!   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 11:29 pm:    Petruz: Very nice! She's a beauty. You're right that the serial number doesn't match the standard convention. I would guess that it's a '97 and they just didn't have the serial number machine setup properly.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 3:45 pm:    I'd like to open a discussion about this model. I liked the shape of it when I first saw it years ago, but what attracts me is the concept behind... a jazz hollowbody with a contemporary "twist" (and the market has some very interesting proposals, like the Hofner's New President and Jazzica, PRS's hollowbodies, Eastman's El Rey, Godin's Montreal and Multiac jazz, just to name a few). Double cutaways are not a novelty among hollowbodies, though; remember the (ugly?) Gibson Barney Kessel model, for example. But the matrice for the PM100 "offset" double cutaways maybe lies in Howard Robert's infamous "Black Guitar" (see photo). That was a heavily customised Gibby with an interesting story: www.utstat.utoronto.ca/mikevans/hroberts/guitars/black.html I can only say that the upper access can be very utile, specially (to me) for chord work, it really opens new ways. One of the caracteristics of modern jazz is the expanding of the idiom: tenorists nowadays (after Joshua Redman) are using 3 1/2 octaves, a thing that not even Coltrane did. I'm uploading some other photos of the PM100, my player's review will arrive soon...   Nobster Username: Nobster Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 3:56 pm:    sljzzegzgpppp... oops, I think I dribbled!   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 4:16 pm:    Thanks for posting the photos. Your guitar appears to be in excellent condition. Congratulations again.   Benito1300 Username: Benito1300 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 12:33 am:    that is SUCH a cool design and it's still tasteful and true to the "traditional" jazz guitar look. i like the simple grain in the maple as well. at least i think it's maple. correct me if i'm wrong. as everyone else has been saying... nice score. i was looking forward to seeing how your "petruz" custom 105 would turn out, but i suppose this'll work   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Tuesday, October 03, 2006 - 11:12 pm:    Petruz: The cutaway on Howard Roberts "Black guitar" looks so small as to be more cosmetic than practical. Almost looks like you might get your finger caught in there.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 2:50 am:    Yes, That's true. But reading about the mod it's clear that the cutaway served for upper neck access. Maybe he had very tiny fingers...   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 04, 2006 - 10:00 am:    In ebay.com there's a pm100 right now (from japan). serial number is F97171, only 28 apart from mine. it lacks one digit, too.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 6:47 am:    i played the pm100 extensively in the last 5 weeks. it reminds me very much the feel and sound of my former fg100 which may be logical, both are all-maple hollowbodies with overall similar size (although the fg100 has a rosewood fretboard, maple neck and a slightly thinner body). in my opinion fg100, pm20 and pm100 are "cousins". setup: i strung this axe with thomastik .12-.50 flats and changed the g string with a plain .20. the neck has no relief and is pretty straight and firm, action very low (1/16" @ 22 fret) with no buzz at all. this guitar has an open, percussive clear tone. it just never gets muddy. i found myself doing four-note chords on the e-a-d-g strings and they ring clearly. maybe part of this clearity comes from the metal bridge. bass response it's not so deep. i compared this guitar directly against my gb30 (semiacustic) and a gibson howard roberts hollow. both of them have deeper basses. this guitar feedbacks as any hollowbody, you have to adjust eq/playing position. the neck is super fast and clean, although it has a very different feel compared to the slinky ibanez artist/gb style. it's 20mm deep under the first fret and not 19mm as usual. another feature is that it has not a heel/bump under the zero fret as most ibanezes, the neck goes straight and flat into the underside of the peghead (see photo). upper fret access is great. deep cutaway, upper cutaway and raised fretboard make it very usable. it's easy to do a, say, d7+ at the 17 fret. nice for a jazzbox. there's a flaw (at least upon this instrument): the fret ends are sharp. not only, 18th fret is a bit high. i expected more from a signature "boutique" ibanez with a list price touching 3000 usd (hey, you can get a handmade holst with this sum!). besides that, overall finish is perfect. i'm looking forward to change the tunable bridge with an all-wood, i think it will bring out a more jazzy tone. i'll change the tailpiece with a wooden one for the same reason.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 7:05 am:    Cpicks , it would be great if you share your opinion about your pm100.   Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 10:11 am:    Do you travel the world to buy guitars?If you do i want that job! Thats a very nice guitar.What will you do about the sharp fret edges??   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 11:05 am:    travel? no (unfortunately). i find them here around rome, italy. about the edges: i'll take her to my luthier. but i regret sourly having to pay for something that should be already paid for.   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 12:40 pm:    Petruz, I purchased a GB100 (new) from a retailer in Hong Kong during a business trip several years ago. The fret work seemed fine while in Asia. A week or two after I brought it home to California, I discovered several sharp fret ends. I took it to a local repair person who said the change in humidity between Hong Kong and California would be enough to affect the guitar. Although the humidity in my area is better suited to guitars (around 40% relative humidity) the fact that it was coming from an environment that is around 80% humidity was enough to cause the frets ends to stick up. As I recall, the repair was very inexpensive and once adjusted, the guitar remained stable for the 3 or 4 years that I owned it. Anyways, although it is a bummer to have to have your guitar adjusted, it could be more a function of atmospheric conditions than the quality of the original setup. Glad to hear you are pleased overall with your purchase!   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 1:17 pm:    yes wildfield, maybe it can happen, the thing is that i bought mine just arond the corner so... anyway, that's life. i paid 900 euros for this axe, it's not so much in the end - half the street price. overall this is a very classy ibanez and seems to be one of the "good ol'ones".   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 1:21 pm:    hi, how would you compare this guitar tone wise to other ibanez jazzboxes, thanks, jazzz   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 2:23 pm:    jazzzbo, i owned two fg100s, an af200 and a gb10. in my opinion the pm100 has tonal qualities similar to the fg100s i had. pure, midrangey woody sound. my af200 had a far more electrical, sustained tone (beautiful). gb10s have a more open, snappy tone. that's my personal opinions, hope that it can help...   Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 7:20 pm:    Sounds like you got a pretty good deal-900 Euro.I totally understnd how you feel, about having to pay more on top of what you already paid, for fret work.Speaking of fret problems- I bought a JS100 not that long ago and the guitar was perfect for me except,ALL the frets had sharp edges,and my style of playing requires me to slide up 3 to 5 to 7 frets at a time and the e-string slides were killing me.Anyway i ended up returning the guitar for a Epiphone Dot,which i was very happy with but, wish the JS100 didnt have the fret prob.,i really liked that guitar!   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:05 am:    i've changed the metal bridge, got a wooden one. to my taste the tone improved (slightly to be honest). i was lucky to find a bridge whose saddle fitted exactly upon the existing base (74mm between posts). another quite good surprise was that intonation continues to be dead spot upon all fretboard, i've just hit the right spot. can't wait to install the wooden tailpiece.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:22 am:    another photo of howard roberts' "black guitar". neck meets body @ 17th fret - another coincidence? it seems to me that roberts' intention with the (shallow) upper cutaway was not to have room for an eventual thumb, instead he wanted the heel of the neck to meet the body much upwards (under the 17th fret and not under the 14th), leaving the neck clean until that point. that makes a huge difference in terms of upper fret access even if one keeps the thumb in "normal" playing position, i.e. behind the neck.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:25 am:    link to the black guitar: http://www.utstat.utoronto.ca/mikevans/hroberts/guitars/black.html   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:36 am:    quoting from another article... The guitar is further distinguished by its uncommon double-cutaway shape with improved access to the upper register. The top bout (bass side) has a distinctive thumb notch and the lower horn has a more standard Venetian cutaway. “My guess would be Howard wanted it to look like a conventional single-cutaway guitar yet allow him to reach in with his thumb around the side of the fingerboard. This would be valuable to a thumb-style player (as Howard was), especially one who used the higher frets,” Mapson added. Interestingly, a similar thumb-notch cutaway has recently been incorporated into the Ibanez Pat Metheny model. “Normally an archtop of this era would have a 14th-fret neck joint, this guitar has a 17th-fret joint. The block at the neck/body junction is modified and has a larger hunk of maple, which is what would be needed to stabilize the deeper cutaway and joint.” taken from: http://www.vintageguitar.com/artists/details.asp?ID=84   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 10:59 am:    i recently restrung my PM100 with d'addarios 11-50 using a plain 20 G. to my surprise the guitar breathes a lot more, i'm very satisfied with this change (i was using thomastiks 12-50). i reffited the guitar with the "old" original (gotoh) tune-o-matic bridge. i did several tests, changing from wood to metal (a two-minute operation). i've come to the conclusion that the metal bridge offers some advantages. first of all intonation, but that's quite obvious; but i think the tone improves, specially on the bass side. basses are so more clean, crisp and focused. instead, using the wood bridge, i get a more "woody" tone, but a more dull tone too (including a very dull C# on the D string). last but not least, a very audible increase in overall volume. i don't have an answer for it, maybe i got a low quality bridge, maybe a handmade ebony one would respond differently? i'd like to have opinions about that... this issue made me rethink the question about ebony/metal bridges used on archtops. i see that virtually all luthier-made archtops have ebony bridges, but on the other hand gibson - which made high quality archtops for decades - always used metal bridges on the higher end models (L5, super 400, legrand, johnny smith etc.) as it was a sign of refinement over wood bridges. jazzers, your two cents please...   Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 12:22 pm:    Petruz~ I always enjoy viewing your PM100!! I agree with you on the string change. Some guitars just sound better with different strings, but I go for D'Addario 11's too. As for the bridge, I've always preferred the ebony on archtops. To me it give a nice snap like metal, but still brings out 'woodiness' from an otherwise bright sounding all maple bodied guitar. You mentioned the Gibson archtops having metal ABR style bridges, but remember, those all have big bodies (16-18)to add girth to the tone. Isn't your PM100 about 16" at the lower bout? The closest Gibson model to yours is the ES175 and they came with both rosewood or metal ABR bridges depending on the year. Interestingly the smaller bodied maple GB10's have spruce tops but all ebony bridges, probably to soften the bright tones as well. Some players switch out the ebony to a Nashville/ABR or metal Gotoh bridge like came on your PM100. As you pointed out that offers more precise intonation. Here's a '96 GB10 with a metal tune-o-matic style bridge mod: http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDetails.aspx? Item=1610554 Norman Brown mods some of his GB10s the same way, probably due to intonation and his high volume playing style. I'll ask him next time he pops over for lunch (I wish!) Tim   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 4:00 pm:    interesting consideration im, in fact the Pm100 is a 16"/40cm. i'm not saying that metal bridges are better on archtops, just that i had a positive impression on this guitar. coincidence or not, metheny uses metal bridges and d'addarios 11s with plain Gs. after 6 months i'm still waiting for the ebony tailpiece i ordered from steve holst! he told me he's moving his studio and will get my tailpiece done soon. let's hope. maybe it would be nice to order a handmade ebony bridge, very tight grain... in any case the compensation using a plain G has to be different, "3+3" instead of "4+2" slopes (can be seen in the photo)   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:19 pm:    another photos...   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:31 pm:      Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, April 06, 2007 - 5:46 pm:    upload problems sorry...   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 12:32 pm:    another example (a costy one!) of double cutaway archtop. http://www.1guitar1.com/jazz_fusion_photos.htm   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 7:40 am:    hey! my tailiece arrived (after nine months...). needless to say it's a beauty, and the guitar's look and character changed substantially. i wonder why ibanez did not concede us with ebony tailpieces on this model, as pat's own PM/FG. some images...   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 8:09 am:    as you see steve holst did a simmetric, fan-shaped design with a nice raised "heel". it fitted perfectly, i had taken the angles of the original tailpiece and did a rubbing of the holes on a sheet of paper to send him. while changing the strings i noticed that under the bridge the finishing is brighter. that's because this guitar is always hanging on the wall near a window (facing north, no sunlight). i hope it will darken more and more with time. regarding tone, i think there's a (slight, to be honest) change, it seems somewhat "rounder". anyway, an ebony tailpiece may be seen more as an overall upgrading of the guitar, as if when someone changes the tuners to better ones. music is so subjective... "feeling" better may mean "playing" better. i hope so!   Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 9:56 am:    BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 10:33 am:    Petruz, The tailpiece looks nice! Congratulations. I'm a big fan of Steve's work. In fact, I have a newly acquired K200 to go along with a Holst tailpiece. Your guitar looks fantastic and I like the mods you have done - tasteful! I'll be she plays and sounds fantastic. Darryl   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 11:17 am:    thanks folks! it was worth the long waiting. wildfield, did holst finish your guitar? i remember a thread about that some months ago. he's an esquisitely polite person. as you say, all i have to do now is upgrade my PM to a K200 – the tailpiece is already there ;) i like very much this instrument, the only "perhaps" is the 80mm depth. i'd greatly prefer it to have 65mm like the FG100 and PM20. that because it's a threat to play her standing.   Texasbob Username: Texasbob Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 2:04 pm:    Looks nice, but upon a closer look, i think you need to send it to me for further inspection   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 3:40 pm:    Petruz, Yes, I received my K200 in early April. I have really been enjoying it. Yes, Steve is quite a gentleman and a great guy to work with. Darryl   Stbatz Username: Stbatz Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 3:58 pm:    Congratulations¡¡,the upgrade look terrific¡and congratulations too for you nice youtube video,and please ,i want to know more about the change in terms of sound / balance. Regards   Fg100 Username: Fg100 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 6:35 pm:    Petruz, great! I'm curious to hear about the changes you notice in the long run. Every time I get a 'better' instrument, it takes a while to realize what is better in comparison with the former... normally when I try the former one again (after playing the new for a month), the differences show really clear. BTW, finally somebody gets it done. I mean, this thing about changing a metal tailpiece for a wooden one on an archtop, has been mentioned many times before. But I don't remember anybody that did it (from the members here at least). So again, I'm curious to hear about the changes in the sound, tone, sustain, balance, resonance, articulation.. etc.. Maybe you could edit that youtube video, adding another section playing it with the new tailpiece... so we could hear the difference (of course the sound quality is not the ideal, but...).. Just an idea.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:02 am:    texasbob, i'll send it to you no problem. just pay me for the shipment, say usd1300 more or less. that's a deal ;) i'll post my comments soon when i'll begin playing it again. for now i just keep staring at it in reverence. fg, i'll put something on youtube asap.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 12:30 pm:    i'm not sure if the differences are audible, anyway here it goes: www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XL3mFtgds   Artfield Username: Artfield Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 7:07 pm:    Its a beauty Petruz !!!   Artfield Username: Artfield Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 7:10 pm:    And the video too Petruz..very nice...   Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 5-2005 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 7:52 pm:    Petruz, You are an excellent guitar player! Thank you for posting the link to You Tube. Darryl   Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 4:06 pm:    Petruz~ Man, you can play! And you have a gentle finger-style touch that works great for jazz chordial comping. That guitar was made for that style. Is there much difference between the downward angle of the metal vs ebony tailpiece? That would probably give you a different feel and sustain, as string tension either increases or decreases.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 4:57 am:    thank you all... guitartim, indeed this guitar has a clarity that fits fingerstyle very well. about the tailpiece: the angle is exactly the same, steve holst asked me to measure the original one. that's because the metal bracket has a fixed angle. it must be said that this is a "real" wooden tailpiece, in the sense that it's the wood that holds the pull of the strings; the small metal bracket only keeps it attached to the rear of the guitar. i had other guitars with ebony tailpieces (hofner, eastman) in which the metal bracket went underside the wood until the edge near the bridge, to hold the strings. in that case the wood was almost "decorative" and acted more like a cap. the combination ebony bridge/tailpiece added a rounder and softer tone to this guitar, i'm very happy with those simple mods.   Rguit Username: Rguit Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 3:16 pm:    Very nice, playing, I love what you did with that PM model, it would be great if Ibanez offered that model with ebony appointments. The playing on goodbye pork pie hat was very nice, which I think was you as well, I use to play that tune years ago and love it, have to start playing it again.   Callistabb Username: Callistabb Registered: 2-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 9:08 am:    Very, very nice playing and a great initiative putting up a youtube link. Nice to have a face for the always so friendly Petruz! Thanks! /Bjorn   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:03 am:    stop it guys, i'm getting shy googling "PM100" i fell into www.archtop.de and noticed a bunch of pros using ibanez archtops among the usual 175s and L5s. most of them GBs (10, 20, 100, 200) as one could expect, but some PM100s too, to my great pleasure i must admit. a guy even uses an AF105. no sign of FG100s, AF200s and PM20s, though.   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 8:11 am:    sorry, the right link is www.archtop-germany.de   Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 4-2001 Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 10:11 am:    My favorite was the article on feedback. No, I can't read a word of German, but at the end, the author wrote in perfect English..."Keep Swingin!". Interesting 'F-hole' plugs too. ("F Loch")   Stbatz Username: Stbatz Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:25 pm:    Wow¡¡,beautifull tone¡¡it does not visit the forum last,for some personal problems, and is one pleasing surprise to find your p.m. 100 project successful finished,please teel me about the amp that you used to record the youtube video,and congratulations by the two things,the guitar and the guitar player¡¡ With my best wishes Rick   Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 6:23 am:    thanks a lot, rick. i use a roland JC-55 and an yamaha magicstomp for delay (a "tweaked" tape delay). i once used thomastick-infeld .13s flatwounds, but in the last year i switched to .11s with a plain G. i think that using a light touch technique one can get the same "thick" tone, with the advantage of putting less stress on the hand/fingers (i began trying this after reading an interview with jim hall). cheers pedro

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