As80 pickups - what to swap in place?

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Author Message Tommy_is_here Username: Tommy_is_here Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 12:34 am:    So, I just got bought my first Ibanez, a (1995?) AS80. I don't think the pickups are the ever so popular super 58s. They don't sound that sweet to my ears. So, what would you suggest I replace them with, aside from 58s. Here's what people have told me: * SD Seth Lovers * Gibson classic 57s. I'm looking for a clear tone, that doesn't squeal at the highs, and hopefully won't feedback too much. Balance is key, and looking for warm sweetness. All comments and suggestions appreciated! Thanks, Tommy Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 7:23 am:    AS80's made by Samick in 1994 and the first few months of 1995 using Super 50's, Then production moved to the Cort factory and the Super 58's took their place. What you can do, is: read the thread "Super 50's - a Saturday Night Adventure" This is about wax potting the Super 50's to get the microphonic feedback out of them. Perhaps you won't get them as warm as the Super 58's. But it is worth a try. What if they turn out to be not warm enough? Before you start putting two $163.75 pickups (list price) in a $300.- to $400.- value guitar, I would suggest that you replace the .022 microfarad capacitor of the neck tone control with a .047 microfarad capacitor. Yesterday I bookmarked a webaddress for handmade SoZo capacitors (S1.65): http://www.sozoamplification.com/purchase.html Mike (Ratfinks3) used the old orange capacitors in his AS80 very much to his satisfaction. He got them from another shop, specialized in classic radio components. I would have to look it up on my office PC. I don't remember the price either. So Mike, if you're reading this, perhaps you can post the name and address of the shop etc. Wax potting and a good capacitor could save Tommy two new pickups. Well Tommy, what if you're not satified? The best offer for new Classic 57's is $109.99 each. Shipping is free. So that's at least $220.- to spend on a $300.- to $400.- value guitar. I would consider buying new KOREAN wax potted Super 58's. (not Chinese). Then you're ready for $90.- And even cheaper: Mighty Might Mighty Buckers http://www.mightymite.com/price/pickups.html And you're ready for $60.- But try wax potting and a .047 capacitor first. Ginger Tommy_is_here Username: Tommy_is_here Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 10:56 am:    Hi Ginger, Thanks for the response. Very helpful. In case I do still end up buying replacement pickups, would you recommend I also swap that capacitor out anyways? Should I do the same for the bridge tone control? Thanks again! Tommy Tommy_is_here Username: Tommy_is_here Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 11:09 am:    Oh yes, I would love to get Korean made Super58s, but I just can't find them anywhere. Am I missing an obvious place? Also, another last question on the tone/vol controls. I noticed the volume controls aren't that responsive - I know very little about how pots work, but would switching out the pots help at all here? Thanks, Tommy Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 05, 2006 - 11:53 am:    If you swap the pickups, you create a totally new situation. I don't know if it will be necessary to swap the bridge cap as well. But if you really don't like shrill trebles... why not? - The cap is the cheapest and 1st step. ($1.65) - Changing the pots with CTS 500K's is the optional step 1 1/2 ($4.- each). - Wax potting the Super 50's is step 2. (mainly time and some candle wax) Changing pickups is step 3 So if you decide to swap pickups, you have the .047 soldered in already. Just listen if you want more highs after swapping the PUs. But put swapping pickups out of your head for now! Non-original pickups in a guitar are almost a mortal sin that devaluates the collectors value of the guitar. But your guitar is a Samick made Korean AS, so: who cares about a capacitor? Keep the original in a click bag in the case. And if you upgrade from Super 50's to Super 58's no Ibanez collector would consider that a sin, because this is exactly what Ibanez did in 1995 as they moved production to Cort. It wouldn't surprise me, if the Korean Super '58 pickup were made by Mighty Might, who supplied Cort with humbuckers for the Source and the Mad Guitar Murphy models. Ginger Oakland Username: Oakland Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 10:10 am:    > Changing the pots with CTS 500K's is the optional step 1 1/2 ($4.- each). Didn't I read somewhere here that CTS pots don't fit Ibanez bodies without drilling? Do the shafts fit the original control knobs? Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 4:58 am:    You read it somewhere....? Where was that? Although I didn't encounter any problems until now, I looked it up: The American potmeter shaft diameters are 1/4" (0.25")= 6.35 mm The Japanese potmeter shaft diameters are specified 6mm (0.2364") So there's a difference of 0.35 mm or 0.0136". The original holes should be drilled with enough clearance for both potmeters. If you're not sure, measure the diameter of the holes with a caliper before you order! The knobs of a Korean AS model are ordinary speed knobs like on an Epiphone Sheraton II. So they fit on the split knurled shaft. You can adjust the shafts a bit. If the shaft is too thick, squeeze it just a little bit, if it's too thin, put the blade of a small screwdriver in the slot and try to twist it carefully. This way you will widen the split knurled shaft end, so that your knob doesn't fall off. BTW: In my search for pot diameters I found a nice website for very affordable good parts (among them caps for $0.45) in the USA: http://www.bestguitarparts.com/guitar-category/Electronics Prices are even better than the $4.- I suggested. and one with a nice collection of various knobs as well: http://www.tubesandmore.com/cemirror/AES05-014.pdf Of course I've already bookmarked them in my guitar parts directory, because you never know... Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:38 am:    Correction, I assumed that the Epiphone Sheraton II would have the same speed knobs as my Epiphone Zephyr Regent. But it doesn't. If you look on the tubesandmore site, P-K501 Speed Knob Gold is the speed knob for the Ibanez AS series, Epi Zephyr Regent, Les Paul P-100 and some more. P-K504 Amber Top Hat Amber is the knob for the Epi Sheraton II. But as you perhaps know, I never purchased a Sheraton II, after the 40% price raise of 1987/88. My AS120 helped repress this this youth trauma including the knobs... Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 2:31 am:    Tommy, just change the caps to .047 on both pickups. I changed the pots while in there. Use audio taper 500K. Try to get 5% matched pots if you can. Most stores will check them for you if you ask that question. If you use the cts pots you will have to drill bigger holes in the instrument. I used mini pots with 15mm shafts. I got my stuff from Tubes and More aka: Antique Electronics. Here is the link: http://www.tubesandmore.com/ They will have everything you need. The pickups will sound very close to the super 58's and most likely satisfy you. You will really notice the difference and had about 12.00 in the changeover. Beats 2 bills for pickups. Good luck, Mike aka: Rat Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 7:31 am:    FYI, Here's a great discussion on caps from another forum. For the short story, use the link below and read thread #16. (You may need to be a member to see this forum.) "Originally Posted by ajchance There's a great study someone did here a few months ago with several different caps interchanged via roach clips. Very thorough overview. It'd be worth a look in your case." Well, not sure if you're referring to my research but here it is anyway. Post no. 16, but there is other good info in the thread as well, by GlassSnuff in particular: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108844 Cool, huh? Rick Oakland Username: Oakland Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 12:12 pm:    > Oh yes, I would love to get Korean made Super58s, but I just can't find them anywhere. Am I missing an obvious place? They are still available from Ibanez. The part numbers are 3pu1c15811 and 3pu1c15812 . You can request them from an Ibanez dealer for about $50 each. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 6:16 pm:    Mike, Thank you for giving a decisive answer on the potmeter holes. I didn't remember what pots you had finally chosen. That's why I wrote: "there's a difference of 0.35 mm or 0.0136". The original holes should be drilled with enough clearance for both potmeters. If you're not sure, measure the diameter of the holes with a caliper before you order!" So you found not even a 0.0136" clearance in your guitar. I must admit, that surprises me. I often buy Japanese potmeters because they are cheaper than CTS in Holland. But since you're in the USA they seemed the better option to me. I never encountered any problems, because I replace either old Japanese by new Japanese, or USA CTS by new Japanese, so this is an eye-opener to me. (By the way, the sound of my The Paul changed in such a way [IMO to shrill], that I decided to operate the old CTS and put it back in). So Mike, we keep learning from each other. Tommy, I just found these in another thread. I think your guitar is an ideal candidate for these two. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260050163088 gold plated. Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 1:32 am:    I learn something new from you guys every time I get on here. Problem is I usually buy something new or change something everytime I get on here. I think you gave Tommy the right option, I just shared the choice you helped me with. Ginger perhaps you could send him the link with the wiring you gave me. Remember one was a Gibber and the other Ibanez. You may have and I just missed it. Tommy remember to use a heat sink on the caps or you can melt them when you solder up. I use roach (oops) I mean aligator clips, and don't get the pot (dang) potentiometers to hot or it will fry the guts. That last sentence did not go well did it Ginger and Rick. Later guys. Hey Longhair (sorry for not knowing your name) I'll back out of the bidding on the 58's if you need them for your guitar. I was just bidding to have some extras and those look good. I'll back out of the auction so you can take it. Mike Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 8:02 am:    The seller says these Super 58's came out of an AR300. They should be gold and Japanese. But I can't say whether these are gold or chrome. If they are gold, a guitar with gold hardware is the ideal receiver for these two. Guitars who need them the most are Samick (1994/'95) ArtStar models with the type number 120 (AS120, AF120), with Super 50's aboard. If you want a Japanese upgrade for an AS80 from this era, look for chromes coming out of an AS180. Mike, that link should be somewhere in that old thread, I guess. I'll look it up when I have some more time. Oh, and I found the brand of the Japanese potmeters that Ibanez and Yamaha use. It's Noble. Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 5:45 pm:    Hey thanks. You know, I bet the two as80's I had were super 50's and not 58's after looking at the recent pics. They were wax potted however. On my monitor the pickups in question look gold. I wrote to the guy and he said they were gold. I think they came from the Samick factory, what are your thoughts on that. They look more like the pickups in the new artcores, AS73G, AS103 and 107 I believe they were, that list as having super 58 pickups. I just played one and we opened it up to check. Some of the artcors say super 58 on the front of the pick up and others don't. That is why we checked. They had short poles however. Hey, would you like to have a dollar every time the word super or 58 was in tex on ICW? Mike Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 9:30 pm:    No Mike, You have KOREAN Super 58's, since your AS80's are made in 2001 in the Cort factory. Only 1994 and EARLY 1995 ArtStar models with an S serial# (made by Samick) have Super 50's. They were made until May 1995 and then the contract with Samick was ended, because of some quality and competition argument. And I think Hoshino was absolutely right about that. Until then, the Dutch distributor sold Ibanez and Vantage (Samick). In 1994 Vantage flattops were the best sold country guitars in Holland. Then, after the contract ended, they banned Vantage guitars from the Dutch market and the distributor became 100% Hoshino. The ones in the ad are JAPANESE Super 58's, but after 1987 or so, when they stopped using the 3-screw pickup suspensions, and started using normal 2-screw pickup suspensions. They MIGHT be even better than our pickups, but the AS200 reviews don't show a significantly better sound score than the (Cort production) AS120. The ArtCORE guitars are Chinese and have CHINESE Super 58's, that are even cheaper than the Korean ones. According to Ibanezfreak1960 they're not even wax potted. So we have at least 4 different kinds of Super 58's: JAPANESE 3-screw JAPANESE 2-screw KOREAN 2-screw CHINESE 2-screw Then each one has a F(ront) and R(ear) variation AND a chrome and gold variation. So there are at least 16 different Super 58 humbuckers. Then there are Custom Super 58's and Benson Special Super 58's and floating Benson Super 58's. So, IMO early S serial# AS120's (in the USA they seem to be mostly WHITE) need a wax potting job or an upgrade in gold. The same goes for the AS80 of that era, but then in chrome. Ginger PS: What's the score, Mike? Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 9:47 pm:    Although they are totally different from the ones in your 2001 AS80, they are, according to John CHROME and according to John and Fox, KOREAN. Well, they sure have changed their way of potting then... So ideal for a 1994/'95 AS80. Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 3:33 am:    Ok I was confused. My AS120 has the super 58's then since it was made in Cort in 95 right? The 2001 AS80 had 58's and not 50's but these had a S number and were typed in. I don't remember if I told you that. The 120 is a C number hand written. I sold one of the 80's that was all original and had no cap work or anything. It was sweat. I got way too many guitars again. Im going to have a big ebay sale soon. I'm keeping the 120 though, it's just the guitar that I have been looking for the last 43 years. Hey I may want a fret job on it. Will it mess up the binding when they change the frets? Have you ever done that on an Ibanez? (I'll start a new thread on that one and see what I get) Hey Ginger you always win!! You guys in Holland were paying attention in school while us surf rats in Cocoa Beach Fl were thinking about the waves and skipping school. lol Mike Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 7:09 am:    Rat,there is a thread somewhere on the topic of refretting a bound neck. I'll try to dig it up but it may not be today. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, November 10, 2006 - 12:52 pm:    2001 and an S serial# on the two AS80's? No, I don't remember you writing that. But I do remember you writing they were the first two guitars of the last production year (2001), which would be something special of course. I never heard of a restored business relationship between Samick and Ibanez, but of course we often hear only the more sensational things, like the quality and competition argument in 1995. Would you manage to make some digital pictures of the Gibsonized AS80, to resize them to 50 kB and to upload them? What I would like to see: - the headstock front; - the horns; - the label/serial number; - the bridge and tailpiece; - the headstock back and joint; - the appearance after the "Gibsonization". Well, about a possible refret job. I never did that and I will always try to avoid it. So I try not to buy guitars with bad frets. As you might know, I have two luthiers in my circle of acquaintances, who taught me a lot and do the realy special jobs for me. Of course I get some discount, but they've got to make a living too. Refret jobs normally are between €120.- and €250.- depending on: is there a neck binding or not, unfinished rosewood, ebony, wenge or pao ferro, or finished maple. On my neck through natural Jarock Strat (no thruss rod) I put .011-.049 strings to avoid a refret job. I bought it for €60.- and upgraded it with about €200.- of gold and tortoise parts (like the Mexican Superstrat). So if you have a string buzz problem you could try to solve it with heavier strings and adjusting the truss rod. Instead of a total refret, there are also other fret jobs, which are much cheaper. A few Dutch examples from the web: http://www.gitaarservice.nl/subhome/reparaties.html http://www.fernsguitars.nl/repairs_nl.html http://www.heeresguitars.nl/faq/reparaties_2005.pdf http://www.rikkersgitaarbouw.nl/reparatieprijzen.htm As you see Fern has one standard price for refretting. The others ask extra money for binding and maple. I met him this summer on a new guitar event in Valkenswaard. A nice young fellow with an official woodworkers and instrument builders diploma. He had brought some of his work. Really nice. Certainly deserves a chance on the market. I admire it when youngsters choose this profession, because it takes guts. It's pure idealism, not a fast career move. Let's wait and see what Freak comes up with... Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:41 pm:    Ginger again thanks a bunch for all the info. Your a wealth of knowledge. Here are some pics of one of the AS80's I sold and wish I'd kept. 2001 with S# I was told it was a 01 but what do you think? Ebay auction number 260043582522 MIke Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 5:06 am:    You mean: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260043582522&ru=http%3A%2F%2F search.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D260043582522 %26fvi%3D1 Allright, I found your old serial number there. It says: serial number 01020121. No S, no C no nothing, just numbers: eight of them. As you know I have an AS120 with such a serial number and in a terrible handwriting. I remember someone asking questions about this phenomenom to the Captain (Cameron). This is what I found: "Partsman Username: Partsman Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:18 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ok, i've got one here, it's an AS120 Artstar made in korea the serial # is 9129422 no letter prefix, is this a 91? thanks, Mark Captainibanez Username: Captainibanez Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:39 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Partsman, 91= 1991 2= Feb 9422=9,422th guitar built for that month. This would be total units for that month across the entire range not just one model. Captain Ibanez" I think the only reason you have eight digits instead of seven, is that they took only ONE digit for the months January-September and perhaps letter codes X,Y and Z for October, November and December in 1991. In 2001 they got wise and used double digits for the months at Cort factory. So what I make out of serial number 01020121 is: Year: 2001 Month: February Production number: 0121 It has the wide Artstar headstock, so there is nothing that indicates that it was a Samick production. (Lucky you and lucky new owner). I think $450.- was a reasonable price for both of you. This serial number wasn't so special after all. And you still have the AS120. Ginger Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 7:03 pm:    THanks for checking on that one for me. I wish I never would have sold it. It was one of the most crafty ones I have had from Ibanez. It was truely flawless. I still have the brother to it with one serial number off. I checked with Ibanez and they gave me a number one (121) and number two (122) on these as 1 and 2 from 2001. I'll look for the code so to speak they gave me on their reasoning behind the numbers. It was different then what we normally use so to speak. That was originally the only reason I bought them when my buddy found them in the back of the warehouse in Tampa stashed away from the rest of the guitars under some boxes. Must have been held for a customer or employee who never made the purchase. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 9:39 pm:    Well, the 0121 and 0122 are overall production numbers within the Cort factory for Ibanez in 2001. So, it is possible, they first made 120 guitars of another type (AS120 for instance) in January, and then started making a series of AS80's in February. So, it is still possible that these were the first two AS80's of 2001. But then you would have to know exact production numbers, and when started what model etc. I think the only one who knows these things on ICW is Jim Donahue. He was the guy who told them how to number them, when there was no stamp, for a certain period. You could ask him. He's quite a busy man (Noah James guitars), but the only one here who really knows how things went in the factory. Ginger Tommy_is_here Username: Tommy_is_here Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 18, 2006 - 10:01 pm:    Hey All, Thanks so much for all the comments and help! I really appreciate it. Here's the update. I actually got my hands on low output Lindy Fralin pickups via a friend, and I decided to swap them in. They are quite nice now. However, I did not do anything to the pots/caps. Would you still recommend switching that old cheap crap out if i get the chance? My guitar tech said don't bother if they still work... Tom Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, November 19, 2006 - 7:35 am:    Well, you just wrote you're going to use LOW OUTPUT (5% underwound) Lindy Fralin pickups. So, switching from a .022 microfarad to .047 microfarad for the neck pickup would even make it more mellow. That is a matter of personal taste. I think your guitar tech is right. First swap the pickups and listen whether you like the sound or not. The problem Mike aka Ratfinks3 had with his guitar was due to the climate he lives in: moist and salty. It is not a problem that is inherent in all Korean AS models. If you NEED to swap potmeters, NOBLE is the brand Ibanez and Yamaha use for their Japanese guitars. They will certainly fit. Ginger

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