| Author |
Message |
Davejacobs
Username: Davejacobs
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 8:37 am: | |
This neck looks very much like an Ibanez neck to me. Did Gibson manufacture such necks?
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D110056519716 |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 9:49 am: | |
I found this 1976 one sold by Elderly:
http://www.archtop.com/ac_76ES_175.html
It has a 3 ply maple neck too. I think the rosewood bridge of the "1969" is rather light for a Gibson.
Measure the nut width with a caliper.
If it's not 42.8625 mm but 42.00 mm or 43.00 mm is Japanese. Besides, did you see those potmeter knobs? They look Japanese to me.
For a lawsuit Ibanez 2355m it hasn't got enough flames on the body. I have one at home. That's not the one.
Then we get these spruce top models, which aren't either.
It could be a real Gibson with some Japanese replacement parts or a Japanese imitation of on of the other brands with some falsified Gibson features.
I'll have to take a look in my books, because I believe I have a picture of an original blonde ES-175D. I don't believe these USA knobs start with "0", but with "1". At least on Strats they do.
Ginger |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:30 am: | |
Dave~ Your best bet would be to check directly with Gibson. See if you can get the serial number from the seller and relay it to Gibson for better history on it. That is one of the nicest ES175D maple necks I've ever seen and worth checking for validity. 175's had either solid mahogany or maple necks, and a few three pc. necks. They also had either maple laminate back/sides or mahogany lam. back/sides. Usually the back/sides wood species matched the neck materials, as in the one for sale.
The knobs and bridge are the easiest parts to change back to original Gibson, but if the guitar is a fake, the point is moot.
The only two 'red flags' I see is the price (Seems extremely low for a '69 in that condition), and the black holly veneer headstock appears a bit too light, almost transparent. But that could be the photo.
It's worth checking with Gibson since the price is more in the 'copy' range. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 11:27 am: | |
Well, I look it up, the blond one was from the fifties and had other knobs but these Quaker hat knobs were used in this era and started with "0".
Pages 320-321 Ray Bonds: "The Illustrated Directory of Guitars" shows this model in sunburst owned by Mark Knopfler.
Maybe this is the real McCoy. But these Klusons are brand new and I'm not so sure about the bridge. It looks like an old cheap replacement.
Interesting guitar. I wonder for how much it will go.
Ginger |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 8:52 pm: | |
I dont want to give the seller any props but thats a nice guitar.The ES175D was manufactured from 1952-last date i have is 2003.The ES175D had PAF P/U form 1953-early- 1957.Humbuckers from 1957 on.The ES175D will fetch more $ if you can find one w/ PAFs.In my Vintage Price Guide that guitar is worth a lot more than the starting price.I wish i had the cash !Cheers!! |
Fox
Username: Fox
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:04 pm: | |
Well, fellow Ibanezers..
Gibson did really make 3-ply maple laminated necks starting from about 69-70, with a volute, like the one in the photo, so I think this in no way compromizes the authenticity. I did quite a lot fixing and setups for PSO, the importer in Finland, those days. Btw. I do prefer those maplenecks with good volutes.. they were phased out 80-81 in favour of "voluteless" mahogany necks.. Hope this info is for some kinda assistance..
fox
ps. The trapeze is "normal" also, if my memory serves me right.. It may have three parallelograms in the bar.. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:40 pm: | |
Fingers,
the pickups it originally had after the Charly Christian pickup, were P90's, not PAFs.
The term PAF (Patent Applied For) was used for the 1957 humbuckers. So ironically enough the patent was applied for what would become the most immitated pickup in the world: the Seth Lover humbucker.
Sure wish I had the cash too. (addict)
But this one's now just above the level of the highest 2355m price (€1110.-) until now.
And I have the same minty guitar with a tulip headstock (1976), so I count my blessings.
We've more than 4 days to go. I guess it will go beyond the €4000.- line. These naturals are rare and wanted. 1969... I was with my parents in a hostel full of Germans on the Island of Terschelling watching Neil "That's one small step for man..." Armstrong. It all seems like yesterday, but this guitar is 37 years old and looks almost like new. It will end high.
Ginger |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:42 pm: | |
Fox your info. seems correct to me.I dont believe those are the org. knobs though.The pic in a book i have has somethink like speed knobs but Gold in color.*The pic in the book is of a 1957 ES-175 w/ out the D Take that for what its worth. |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:58 pm: | |
Yeah you might be right Ginger about the P90s Im just re-typing info. thats in a book i have.Im by no means an expert.But now i know what P.A.F. means |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:56 am: | |
Those are M8 pickup rings on that 175 so I'd say definately a Gibson.
six |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:04 am: | |
I checked with some other Gibson collectors, and they think it is the real deal...except that it may be a bit newer than the claimed '69. Even still, a VERY nice example. These are their reasons:
- neck volute
- closed "b" and "o" in Gibson logo
- dotted "i" in Gibson logo
- rectangular (versus oval) label |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:14 pm: | |
Dave~ Here are a couple of other vintage ES175's for comparison purposes...FYI.
http://www.guitarsandeffects.com/zGIBSON.htm |
Davejacobs
Username: Davejacobs
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 4:28 pm: | |
I am still waiting for the info from Gibson customer service about the serial number but it does seem to be a Gibson. It is just that it looked so much like my FA100 that I suspected it to be a lawsuit model with a Gibson decal applied, I didn't see these necks on a Gibson before. I guess the guys from Ibanez did their job very well indeed... |
Fox
Username: Fox
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 9:55 pm: | |
Tim & other guys... I have done some picture-based research while working.. I put my bet on 1974-75 Gibson.. based on the following:
Serial number is accebtable for the period
Peghead back seems to show features for the period
Witch-hat knobs..although the knobs could easily be changed 
Dotted "i"
The bridge has been changed though for that "jazzy" one.
my 2 % to this question..
fox |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:49 pm: | |
Dave you might be right But its your FA100 that looks like the Gibson not the other way around |
Davejacobs
Username: Davejacobs
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 2:07 am: | |
Well, what should I say, I guess you are right |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 6:14 am: | |
Back in the 70's. Ibanez were copying Gibson Jazz boxes from that same period. The witch hat knobs are a dead givaway as are the volutes and the 14 degree peg head rake. Still great guitars although pity they didn't do the 50's spec's instead.
six |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:38 am: | |
Not really topic realted directly but just a thought. During the Ibanez copy stage a friend of mine who worked for Elger(pre hoshinoUSA) told me they would buy Gibsons and take them to the bandsaw and hack them up to see how they were constructed. The one that sticks out in his mind is a LP Custom being sawed up and my friend cringing at the site of it.
Thats how dedicated they were to build a better guitar. |
Fox
Username: Fox
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 8:12 am: | |
Freak, being "The King of the Kopies" they were only a couple of months behind.. When G. launched a new model, youd could be sure that within a couple of month or so there would be an equivalent in Ibanez models.. |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 8:58 pm: | |
I have an old CMi brochure that shows the Ibanez range with logo's missing off the top of the peghead. They look remarkedly like Gibsons.
six |