Have Gibson finally caught up?

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Author Message spiro Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:09 am:    Just to bring to everyones attention. I have a few Ibanez Les Paul Custom Lawsuit copies (1974-75) and they all have sound chambers in them (Just tap on the belly area of the guitar and find it is hollow). I am also aware that this was done to give the guitar a deeper throaty sound.. In 1999 you can now get the same in a custom shop Gibson Les Paul for only $6000 what a bargain. have a look (this body design is identical to the Ibanez.. http://www.gibson.com/cgi-bin/custom.cgi?id=103 Now I am also aware that Ibanez made a 24 fret Artist with double cutaways.. You can now buy a gibson lookalike (Should ibanez take Gibson to court ??????) http://www.gibson.com/cgi-bin/custom.cgi?id=101 Guys tell me what you think???? Joe K. Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:09 am:    I'll tell ya what I think.... The hollow chamber you hear by tapping on the guitars top is the result of a pressed and curved plywood top. There is a hollow chamber under it, above the solid wood of the back. This was done to cut costs. Pressing plywood to shape is cheaper than carving a solid maple top. Take out the bridge pickup for a look. As for the idea that Gibson swiped that double cut away design from Ibanez. Ibanez would loose that court case for sure. the Double cut you refer to is based on a Gibson Les paul special design, made from 1958-1961. spiro Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:09 am:    I am sorry to tell you, but, I have actually pulled a top off a Copy to repair the ply (never actually worked so we put a new top on it) and there is chambers which are routed out ( i think this was done to keep the weight of the guitar down and so tone benefited from it as well). Yes you are right that you can see how the top is fitted and that there is a gap between it but that is not my point. My point is that they actually routed chambers out in the mahogany. If you want a more detailed version of how these bodies were made have a look at my discussion in the lawsuit or outlaw definiton in the copies area of this board. Gibson did make the les paul special but that was a very cheap and nasty guitar. But i will let you know that it was never a 24 fret job. I was being sarcastic when i said that ibanez should take Gibson to court, what i was trying to say is that Gibson have been making guitars for years and years now and are now again trying something different other than body shape. (Yes they did make active guitars during the 70's and were a big flop eg. RD Artist, Marauder, L6-S with those horrible pickups and the Recording series more like a control station than a guitar.) My point is that Ibanez, maybe from cost cutting had already explored the chambered body. Tell me would you rather buy a $600 Ibanez Les Paul Custom copy and use it, or would you rather spend $6000 on Gibson custom shop Les Paul and look at it? Srules (Srules) Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 10:50 pm:    AMEN BROTHER! Forget Gibson and thier "well, we have a well known name, so let's FLEECE THE HARDWORKING MUSICIANS, and charge $2,500 dollars for a guitar( LP ) that only cost us a few hundred to build". FORGET EM'! Also, their workmanship has gone WAY down in the last few years. Getting a good LP from them is a CRAPSHOOT at best. Again I say; FORGET EM'! I will NEVER own thier over-priced CRAP! Sixvsix (Sixvsix) Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 12:59 pm:    Well, you could always but a second hand one at slightly better value for money. That way you can probably sell it for the same money if you don't get on with the thing. Better still, buy cheap and make a profit. six Tim_Walker (Tim_Walker) Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 3:09 pm:    or just stick to Ibanez... Paul_A (Paul_A) Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 3:48 am:    I cant comment on Gibson's current production but the original Les Paul Juniors and Specials are very fine guitars indeed, simple and built to a price but of the same quality as other Gibsons of the period. I think that this sort of Gibson bashing is is quite pointless. If Gibson had stopped building guitars in 1960 they could still lay claim to the Les Paul, 335, Flying V, L5, Super 400, J200, Byrdland etc most of which, incidentally have been copied by Ibanez. Johns (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 10:25 am:    Six: What a novel idea: buy and sell Gibbies to support your Ibanez collecting! I love it! Tim: You're a true convert! Paul: You make some good points. Credit should go to Gibson where it is deserved. I would love to own any one of the guitars you mentioned. Hopefully from the 60s, but I certainly wouldn't turn down a free 2002 ES335 or Byrdland. However, I'm not sure that pointing out that the production line Gibson's of today suffer from disappointing quality is "pointless" bashing. Especially, when the price differential between the '60s and the '90s/2000s is thrown into the equation. It seems like a relevant price/value concern for a working musician. Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 3:47 pm:    I think Gibson is stuck between a rock, and a hard place. They are still producing the same basic designs from +/-40 years ago. Why? 'Cause that's what their customers want. Other than the Les Paul, SG, and ES335 types, what has Gibson sold sucessfully? Every time they tried going in a different direction, the sales weren't there. So, they continue to offer the same products that have brought them success in the past. Even if they wanted to change their image, they couldn't. For comparison, let's look at Fender. Yes, they still produce some models that are virtually identical to their '50s ancestors. However, they have offered variations and options on those traditional models with good results. Fender now offers factory installed humbuckers and even Floyd Rose trems now. Unheard of 20 years ago. For those who want a traditional, American made, Stratocaster, it's still available. But, even they are available in several configurations. And with the Mexican made models, Fender offers a tremendous price range. Now Ibanez, on the other hand, isn't bound by a single-minded customer base. I suppose a survey may reveal that most players associate the Ibanez name with the RG Series. Is that a bad thing? The RG is probably the most successful "SuperStrat" ever produced. However, the RG is really only a small part of the product line. Anybody who's done their homework, knows that no other manufacturer has offered such a wide range of guitars. The early days of making "Copies", morphed in to the Artist/Artstar series, several unique designs (Musician comes to mind,) and an incredible progression of Stratocaster based models. Although the Strat influence is fleeting for some (S Series for example). So, what's my point? I'm not sure I have one! However, I do feel it's not valid to compare Ibanez, as a whole, to the "traditional" companies. Fender and Gibson (and others) both manufactured guitars in their own factories. Ibanez guitars were/are designed by a few key people, and then produced under contract by a number of different factories. It's a totally different program. I do believe it is fair to compare similar models between companies. For example: a Les Paul to an Artist, a Stratocaster to a Roadstar, or an AM200 to an ES336. When you do that, I think Ibanez comes out looking pretty damned good! Especially when you add in the price factor. Just my $.02... Cheers Steve Sixvsix (Sixvsix) Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 6:46 pm:    And Fenders too John. six Tim_Walker (Tim_Walker) Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 12:23 pm:    I think it's horses for courses really. I hate strats, but I realize they suit some players down to the ground and in the right hands they're the perfect guitar. I love many Gibsons, but I do agree that the lower end of the market (juniors etc) can be like an old floorboard. I'm sure some cheap Ibanez play like planks too, but then they've have a realistic price tag of £150 ish compared to Gibby's silly £600 upwards mark. No contest really!

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