| Author |
Message |
    
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 7:34 am: | |
In Oakdale, NY (2 towns away from me) yesterday z(9/17/07) the owner of Oakdale Guitars was arrested for selling fake Gibson Guitars. They took 15 fakes out of the store and found 198 more at his home. Authorities are telling folks that if you bought a Gibson there, you probably don't have a real one. Kinda makes you sick in the stomach... don't it? I mean... it just makes you wonder about everything now. A gibson rep in conjunction with the F.B.I. (I believe) are the ones who did the investigation and arrest. As well as Suffolk County, NY Police. |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:17 am: | |
http://www.oakdalemusic.com/index2.html
What a ripoff. I wonder if any other of the guitars on his site are fake? |
Mrblanche
Username: Mrblanche
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:21 am: | |
Did you notice that on his web site, on the left side, Gibson is not listed as one of the brands he carries? |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:26 am: | |
Yeah I saw that. I wonder if that was changed after the arrest? |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:47 am: | |
Yes, Oakdale Music, that's him. Well... he's having a baloney sandwich and warm milk for lunch today! I betcha Gibson comes dowm big time on this joker. This is huge. As a manufacturer, you would want to nip this in the bud and send a warning to others who may do the same. I will go to Newsday.com in a bit and see if that newspaper is covering the story. Listen, even though it's only Gibson, this story really really bugs me. It's just gives one too much to worry about in general now. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:49 am: | |
Here's the link to the Newsday story.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny- bc-nyc--trademarkcounter0918sep18,0,2860811.story |
Lofapco
Username: Lofapco
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 8:58 am: | |
Any idea where the "fake" guitars were coming from? From what the story said, he was putting the Gibson brand on other guitars. Was he making headstocks/necks or what? I would hope most players would be able to recognize a fake by playing it before buying it. Cheap guitars are always going to feel cheap. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 9:20 am: | |
Then again, I have guitars I've paid $158 for that blow away guitars I've played that cost $1500. Those fakes in the other thread look pretty darn close to the originals. Not everybody (including myself) is an expert either. It's just a bad and dangerous situation. |
Fox
Username: Fox
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 9:43 am: | |
Well, we have an epidemy in Finland, I've wrote to my friend at "G" about them..Juha there in another thread wrote about this. Those forgeries cost about 200-300 greenbacks apiece..
Take a look at www.paylessguitars.com |
Guitarwhisperer
Username: Guitarwhisperer
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 9:55 am: | |
I've seen those fakes on that site before. They look extremely convincing on their page. I wonder how they'd look in person? I wonder how they get away with it? Seems like there'd be some kind of law against importing that stuff into here. But then again, the Chinese government doesn't care about our laws anyway, and the government REALLY owns that factory. Any money spent on those guitars goes to the Chinese government. Kinda scary if you think about it. |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:25 am: | |
The FBI and FTC are going to have a veritable criminal justice feeding frenzy over this one!
Has the Gibson press conference been called yet? Hey Bob, maybe you can stand in the background with your "My Ibanez is Better than your Gibson" T-shirt on. |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
My Ibanez blows away your real and fake Les Pauls. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
Tim, I'll see what I can do. Oakdale is literally 5 minutes from me. I wanna take a ride over there and see what's going on. Bet I can get a sweet deal on a '57 Les Paul there! Another sore point is.... an owner of a music store is most likely a musician. For one of our own to do this do fellow musicians is particularly distasteful. Now... they caught him but.... suppose he's been doing this for years and some of the fakes he sold have been re-sold by whomever bought them from this clown and now they're out in the open market? Folks could have sold what they thought to be an authentic guitar but it was really (unbeknownst to them) a fake when they bought it. So... how many fakes are out there now? And... if Oakdale was doing it, you gotta figure he's not the only one. Pretty sleazy this whole affair. very troublesome. If I was a manufacturer these days, I'd inbed a chip in the axe ....somewhere inaccessible by any means, just to preserve the integrity of the instrument, especially the expensive ones. I may be overstating here but IMHO even a simple single incident like this in Oakdale could affect Gibson on a worldwide scale. It just opens up a can of worms. When I say "affect" I don't mean it will put them out of business but now, myself, everytime I pick up a Big G. guitar... I will have suspisions. That's no good for any manufacturer. |
Talajuha
Username: Talajuha
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
This one is for sale in finland. This time the seller says it is "probably" a copy. Looks like the case has Gibson logo, too. In a previous ad the logo of the guitar was visible.
Juha |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 4:29 pm: | |
Carvin and a few other companies already installs chips in their guitars made by:
http://www.snagg.com/
Check out this interesting article:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1612809,00.as p |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 6:36 pm: | |
It's weird to me to see a sizable retailer like this dealing fakes. Doesn't he realize he just shot his whole business? What a stupid move. If I were any of his other "authorized" suppliers, I'd be slamming this guy hard.
Bob, give that guy a piece of my mind. ;) |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:48 pm: | |
Nothing new here. Some people have paid hundreads of thousands of dollars/pounds for fake Gibsons and Fenders. It's been going on since as far back as I can remember....and thats quite a long time.
The difference is, these days it's pretty blatant in your face fraud so they deserve to get their ••••• kicked.
I emailed Gibson about this very thing a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure it was "Payless Ponces" who I drew their attention to.
Hmmmm...Fox Six. Has a ring to it.
six |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 7:31 am: | |
I hope Newsday follows up on this because I am as interested in the outcome of this bust as I am in the bust itself. I really plan on going over to Oakdale sometime this weekend, just to have a look around. I want to take a look and see if the guy has any Ibanez guitars in there. If I see an old Ibanez or even a new one that appears to be a little whacky, I'll let you know. My buddy (the one who set Steve Vai up with Ibanez) owns a guitar store. I'm gonna call him today and see what he has to say. Really, he should tell his IBZ rep to go to Oakdale and look around. The more I think about this, the more it bugs me. I really hope they slam this guy good. In a way, technology is a part of the problem here. It's just easy to produce fakes now and if one really sets their minds to doing a good job of it, it could get to the point of where it's virtually impossible to differentiate. I'm glad some manufacturers are installing chips, it seems to be the right thing to do, it really protects the consumer and I don't know of anything else that is even attempting to protect the consumer against this type thing. |
Michaelkaufman
Username: Michaelkaufman
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 8:08 am: | |
Zilla: I heard that there was one fake Ibanez AR5000 spotted in New Jersey last year and just like the other fakes, it made its way to Long Island...
mk |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 8:36 am: | |
Mike.... that's funny... even if it's fake, I love it anyways so... I'll hold onto it! Hey... Newsday followed up on the story today. Haven't been to the website, I am sure it's there but in the paper itself, which I have open next to me as I am typing now... they have a huge photo of the fakes and then they even have an area where they have diagrams and arrows and telling you how to discern if it's a fake or not. I'm gonna read the article now and have my cranberry juice and brownie breakfast. I will go to newsday.com in a bit, see if the same info is there and I will post the link if it is or... you can go to newsday.com, type in "gibson" as a search and it may turn up. Newsday article shows the culprits mugshot too. Looks like a complete fat/stupid sleazeball. Seriously. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 8:48 am: | |
Here's how the investigation started... a guy in New Jersey bought a LP from Oakdale via Ebay. When the guitar arrived in NJ, the buyer realized it was a fake and called police. Police contacted Gibson. Gibson sent an employee into the store undercover. POP! Busted! The store owner says he bought 35 of them off ebay thinking they were authentic and he only found out they were fake when his guitar tech opened one up and saw "mislabeled" parts inside. Yeah right! Guy says he wasn't trying to sell them. Meanwhile... he's got them on display in his store for sale. Sorry dude... you're busted. He;s claiming police have no evidence he ever sold any and he's pleading not guilty. Guaranteed every body that bought a Gibby from this clown is gonna have it looked at and they'll find the ones he's sold and that is gonna shut this clown up. I feel horrible for the musicians that got whacked. Hope they kept their receipts. Diagram points out 4 areas of guitar where you can see if it's fake. The logo on the headstock, "cheap inlays", the truss rod cover (should have 2 screws not 3), and the shape of the truss rod cover as well, should be elongated, not short and stubby like the ones Oakdale was selling. Here's link to today's article:
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/suffolk/ny-ligui t195381104sep19,0,7257368.story |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 9:22 am: | |
Y'know, you could have pity for someone buying a fake in the open market and then getting nailed when flipping it. But *35* of them? From one source? BS. Anyone making that kind of investment would check out authenticity. This guy deserves to get busted! |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 9:31 am: | |
Anyone who owns a music store should/would know a fake within 10 seconds, you gotta figure. He admitted his tech knew they were fakes and yet, he had them on the wall for sale when the police arrived. DUH! Moron. This guy's cake is baked. Did you see his mug shot? I dunno if it's on the web page but it's in the paper. |
Talajuha
Username: Talajuha
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:37 am: | |
Hm, a big Finnish retailer is selling Gibson LP Studios at 999 EUR, before 1545 to 1745 EUR. Is it a normal sale or ...
 just joking
but the cut price is true.
Juha |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
Question - If you're totally happy that 'someone' is making you a 100% lookalike fake, is that different from unwittingly buying a fake when you thought you were purchasing the real thing?
Reason I ask is where does the ethical line get drawn on this.
six |
Lofapco
Username: Lofapco
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 11:32 am: | |
If you knew it was a "fake" and paid considerably less than an original... OK that's your problem as long as you don't try and sell it as original. If your unwittingly buing a fake and paying real $$$ for it, then bottom line it is the sellers problem. I tend to believe in the buyer beware philosophy, but when it comes to guitars.... It just means we all need to do our research and keep informed of the differences. Forums like this help tremendously. I have noticed how most of you can spot things I never would look for as an acoustic player. IE are the pups original, knobs original, tuners, etc. You guys analyze photos better than some forensic scientists out there! |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
Six, the answer to your question is blatantly obvious. There is a HUGE difference. Huge Huge huge. In the first scenario you present, the buyer is aware. In the second, the buyer is unaware so... I say huge. I'm calling the store now and asking if he's got any IBZ's in stock. Let's see what he says. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 11:48 am: | |
here's our boy!
 |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 12:07 pm: | |
no answer at the store, phone rings until it hangs up. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
called back, they answered. no IBZ Artists or Musicians in stock. (Good!) |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 6:28 pm: | |
I wish I were good at Photoshop... That picture is just crying out for a little fun! |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 7:55 pm: | |
I agree. I know several guys who bought fakes. They knew exactly what they were getting. In fact, the guitars are worth considerably more now.
six |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 7:32 am: | |
Six, why are they worth more now? And who are they worth more to? Are there fake guitar collectors out there? I wish folks wouldn't support this type thing. Maybe this is troubling me more than other folk but it really rubs me the wrong way. Even way back when IBZ was producing "similar" guitars to the other brands, they at least said IBZ on 'em so... there was no attempt to deceive. The deception bugs me, the aura of doubt it creates whenever you go to buy a guitar now bugs me, the lack of quality bugs me. It just bugs me. It's bad. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 8:32 am: | |
 |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:11 am: | |
Bob, there are a ton of them. Especially old Fenders. I mean fake old Fenders. I've seen them and I can tell you, you wouldn't be able to spot the difference. There's a waiting list and those who can't wait buy from those who have one.
six |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:18 am: | |
Six, that's amazing and that's something I would never have imagined. Learn something new everyday... I guess. |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
Ummmmmmmmm, I take that back. On second thought... if as you say "you can't tell the difference", then... it DOES make sense. Why? I bet a few (bunch actually) of those fellows are selling them as the real thing. If you are doing it on less than a retail level, the problems you'll run into if you get caught probably won't be insurmountable. Most problems incurred from selling fakes to single buyers can be fixed through avoidance I would imagine. |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 7:29 pm: | |
Nice work on the pic, Bob! |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 9:57 am: | |
somebody paste the G logo on his head! |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:11 pm: | |
 |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Bah! That's funny! |
Lofapco
Username: Lofapco
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
Now if only you could trim his head into a "Open Book" shape???????? |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 4:08 pm: | |
I'll get my daughter to do it!! |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 4:13 pm: | |
Here's Gibson's article about fakes of their brand...WARNING...get tissues. This story will make you cry! 
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Cou nterfeitGibsons/ |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 4:20 pm: | |
Okey, there you go!
Ginger |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 4:21 pm: | |
Okay, there you go!
Ginger |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 4:48 pm: | |
Good one Ginger now that is a classic. like the less pun. |
Lofapco
Username: Lofapco
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:32 pm: | |
Perfect Ginger!!!
Thats what I was looking for... lol |
Harry
Username: Harry
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:30 am: | |
I think he´s a blood-sucker too...
Harry |
Chazmo
Username: Chazmo
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:05 am: | |
Dang, I really needed a laugh this morning. Thanks, guys!!!! |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 9:46 pm: | |
I think the Nazi's had it easier than this guy at the Nuremberg trials.
six |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 11:13 am: | |
Good stuff! That's funny! |
Jcmc64
Username: Jcmc64
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 6:46 am: | |
HAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!! |