| Author |
Message |
The Tone Zone
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Ive got an older 540r which is a great guitar and im looking for just the right pickups. i've tried just about everything under the sun and am currently using evolutions. the evos are great pickups but after much experimentation ive found that they need a bigger guitar. before the evos i used a tone zone for longer than any period before and realized that its probably my favorite less the lack of vocal characteristics on the upper end. dimarzio says the norton is a hybrid of the the tone zone and fred, im kinda wondering how much of each. has anyone ever tried this pickup, or the breed?
from my experience with pickups ive found the radius, and saber series tend to work a bit better with medium output pickups, the norton fits. but damned if i can find anyone thats ever used one.
thanks |
mhurds
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
I have one in the bridge of a Jackson, and although that does not feature a mahogany body, it gives me a very good idea of what this humbucker can do.
It has what I would class as a medium/hot out put. Not as much as the Tone Zone, but more than the Fred. Clean, the sound is deep and warm, with a darkness to it that is not too much. It taps nicely to give a authentic enough sounding single coil tone, and in the mixed positions has plenty of quack.
Distorted this pickup comes into it's own. Single notes bloom as they are plucked, and any king of harmonics simply scream. It is heavy in the midrange, like the Tone Zone, but the lower output and bass response give it the vocal qualities that the Fred possesses.
For soloing, it's very easy to obtain a Satriani/Santana style singing sound. Legato sounds perfect with it.
It can handle most styles, from country to blues to rock. I would say that it has too much midrange for heavy metal, but that is not what I use it for.
DiMarzio designed it originally for mahogany bodies guitars, it's said to really open up the sound.
I was very tempted to get one for my S1520FB, but I got the chance to purchase a Seymour Duncan JB and have decided to try that, my logic being that I could easily change the Jackson and Ibanez pups around if need be (another reason is the way DiMarzio have tried to freeze out smaller manufactuers such as Kinman. Even Seymour Duncan have been on the recieveing end of DiMarzio's dubious business practices. As a result, I have to have my say with my wallet, unless I get desperate).
I've yet to try the JB out, hopefully I should be able to tomorrow evening. So far though, out of the 10+ humbuckers that have been in the Jackson, this one has survived the longest. After 4 years, looks like it is going to be in there a little longer, unless the JB does not live up to expectations that is... |
mhurds
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Ooops, thought you said S540, not 540R!
In that case, my tonal perceptions should hopefully be reasonably accurate as the 540r and Jackson body woods are similiar.
To give a very good idea of what this pickup can do with the guitar plugged straight into a distorted amp, no effects, think early Van Halen. It nails that tone. |
JohnS
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
You've got me curious, what kind of dubious business practices are we talking about? |
TheToneZone
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
from my understanding dimarzio has attempted to stop kinman from setting up production in the states, which would ultimately bring the cost of these "great" (ive never tried one but haven't seen a revue from a dissatisfied customer) pickups. that's all i know about dimarzios business practice.
i guess all you can do is excercise your right to boycott the company mhurds.
ive tried a couple of the duncans in this axe and just cant find one that even appeals to me, as ive said before, they just dont sound good in an ibanez guitar. i still may try the norton, not like its a big project, just slap it in.
anyway, thanks for the info |
mhurds
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
They have made several different attempts to disrepute the cash flow of their competitors.
With Kinman they took him to court simply because he wanted to sell his product in the States, and represented a very real threat to DiMarzio's Virtual Vintage range. Elsewhere around the world Kinman is making a killing with his products, and sales of DiMarzio's Virtual Vintage serious have seriously been hit as a result.
Know that Kinman was virtually a one man band, and that he is based in Australia, DiMarzio used the New York States legal system to their advantage.
In New York State, you have to have a State registered attorney defend you, and you cannot defend yourself by correspondence. To do so would have put Kinman out of business.
Basically they sued him for patent infringement, even though Kinman patented his design before DiMarzio! (This can be verified online at the US Patents Office web site BTW).
Because of this odd loop hole in the law, Larry D won the case, although Kinman pickups are now available in the States, they are hard to obtain and the prices are high, however, the quality of these pickups has to be heard to be believed.
DiMarzio has even used the law against the likes of Seymour Duncan. They registered the Double Cream bobbin humbucker colour, so no other companies can use it. Seymour Duncan have gone to court several times over this issue, and each time, they have won the case, only for DiMarzio to appeal, so nothing changes! It almost bankrupted Seymour Duncan.
Whatever people may think of this, I am not looking for an argument, I am pointing out the facts as I know them (most of this information is from a small Washington based custom pickup maker, who knowledge of the industry is frightening).
It does not alter the fact that I think the Norton is a fantastic humbucker, the best DiMarzio produce IMHO (even DiMarzio think it is the most versatile pickup they manufacture).
Tone Zone you are correct in saying that it is my right to boycott DiMarzio products, however I don't think Larry D will be losing any sleep over it because I am not purchasing his products! :-)
For more information, check out http://www.kinman.com/DiMarzio.html |
JohnS
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Mhurds:
That's an EXCELLENT link! I almost wish I had a Strat to put some of his pickups in! J |
TheToneZone
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
well damn, now i feel kinda bad about having my screen name, and i was the only tone zone on the net. that is kinda all very interesting though, i mean, how in the hell can you register or patent a color?
perhaps you should send that link to the dimarzio tech guy at dimarzio@on-line.com
mike |
mhurds
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
The Tone Zone,
Someone on another discussion board that I frequent did, they just an email back from DiMarzio stating that they have a right to defend their interests, well if Chris Kinman was a company on the scale of DiMarzio, perhaps I would give more crendence to the reply!
I would not feel too bad about your screen name, I mean the pickup is not to blame for DiMarzio's actions! It still does not detract from the fact that DiMarzio produce some excellent products.
I now have the Seymour Duncan JB installed in my S1520, my thoughts when comparing this to the Norton are that the JB sounds less punchy, it's got a less pronounced mid range and is brighter sounding than the Norton, the bass response is slightly greater, but the treble is probably equal (With the JB I find I am using the tone control more, adding brightness for solos, and cutting back for rythym). Output wise, they are equal. If you have any experience with the JB, hopefully this may give you a tonal reference.
I've just got the new Ibanez catalogue and am tempted to purchase the new S2020XAV (this one is an electric/piezo hybrid). If I do so, a Norton/Fred bridge and neck combination might be a temptation (I'd only have to find a Fred), either that or a Seymour Duncan Custom and Pearly Gates combination. |
AC
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
hi,
i own the duncan JB humbucker, man this is one loud, 'crunchy' pickup. however, i also have a dimarzio PAF in my RG 560, i feel that the PAF gives a 'smoother' definition. i guess these 2 units don't compete with each other, they have their own characteristic strength.
the kinman/ dimarzio discussion was really an enlightenment. i'm glad i read it here, fr people who are realy open-minded & objective about the tone they want, not taking sides.
mhurds,
did u get the ibanez catalogue fr Ibanez or fr yr local dealer?
AC |
The Tone Zone
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
well mhurds, maybe word has gotten out. i just found out that the dimarzio service email addy has been discontinued. perhaps they've been having to spend the extra time answering for their actions.
i do find all this dimarzio/kinman stuff interesting and don't agree with the business practices of dimarzio one bit. but honestly, i don't think it will stop me from buying their pickups. i mean, when you have a sure thing you gotta go with it, know what i mean?
perhaps should some day i have more money to experiment with other models maybe i will be tempted to try out some of the duncans. my issue is that you just can't go down to any music shop and try these things out. for all the hassle, you really want to be sure. anyway, i've rambled on enough, time to get picking.
mike |
mhurds
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Mike (aka The Tone Zone),
I agree with 100%, sometimes it's wise to stick with what you know. Despite what I think of DiMarzio's business activities, I don't have a beef about their products. I would not hesitate to recommend the Norton to anyone if I think it would suit what they are looking for.
I've warmed to the JB a lot over the last few weeks. The extra brightness has really got me using the tone control much more, I'm finding more and more sounds. It's certainly on a par with the Norton.
It's a shame that some dealers don't offer test bed guitars. I know that in the States DiMarzio and Duncan have pretty good returns policies if the pickup does not turn out to be what you are looking for. I've found that the description on DiMarzio's and Duncans websites are very accurate. The way the information is presented on DiMarzio's website is excellent.
One last thing, I know this topic has strayed a little from the original question, but I'm impressed with the adult manner that everybody has contributed to this thread. It could have easily become flame city in here! Thankfully that has not been the case.
AJ,
Sorry it's taken a while to reply. I ended up phoning a dealer in the UK and asking them to post me a copy. Where is Ibanez's 2000 website? |
The Tone Zone
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
just a note to anyone concerned. dimarzio did not discontinue its email customer service, just changed the website a small bit. my mistake for missing it.
and as for the norton mhurds, well, i'm still considering it, but i may just as likely try a fred.
mike |
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