SURVEY: SLEEK? THIN? FAST? PLEASE, BE...

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Author Message Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 1:34 pm:    hi guys we often categorise our guitar's necks in a very personal (and innacurate) way: general terms as "sleek", "fast", or even "beefy", "comfy" et al. i propose that we get our callipers and use them... maybe we could build a useful database with wich to compare various necks, not only by model, but by construction year or even factory origin too. who knows what surprises will come out? i was the first to be surprised comparing my AS200 to my AM400: the AM neck is a little... beefier. about measuring procedures: the depth of archtop or acoustic guitar necks under the 12th fret may be "false" because of the neck heel. for these kind of instruments it would be useful to take the measurement under the 9th or 10th fret. obviously, guitars with only 20 frets should have the neck width measured at the 20th fret... guitars with 24 frets maybe should be measured at the 22th fret to make comparison easier with the "normal" 22-fret guitars. transforming milimeters to inches or vice-versa is not difficult with computers or calculators, so i'd say it's indifferent. here's my first three contributions: AF200 H700073 (1987) width @nut = 43mm width @22 fret = 57mm depth @1fret = 20mm depth @12fret = 22mm AM400 H802681 (1988) width @nut = 43mm width @22 fret = 57mm depth @1fret = 21mm depth @12fret = 22mm SC500N F9940146 (1999) width @nut = 43mm width @22 fret = 56mm depth @1fret = 20mm depth @12fret = 22mm Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 7:52 am:    I agree completely, but would like to add some description of neck shape and measurement for fingerboard raduis. 2 necks that measure exactly the same, one with a "C" shape and one with a "V" shape, will feel quite different. So far, I have yet to see specs on necks from guitar manufacturers that lets me predict how the neck will feel. For me personally, the overall feel of the neck is possibly the single most important aspect of a guitar. I tried to start a collaborative collection of neck info on this site, but didn't get too far. It would be a lot of effort to compile information about the many models and years of Ibanez guitars...and even then necks can vary quite a bit. For example, I my household has 4 Roadstar II guitars, a December '82, two '83s and an '84, with two guitars being the same model. All of the necks are somewhat different. My '83 RS505CS has the smallest feeling neck of the bunch, with the most noticable "V" to it - very vintage Fender. I agree fully that terms commonly used to describe necks are useless, and I encourage you to persue your efforts to catalog neck sizes. Hope you get farther than I did. Please see previous topic on Neck Dimensions... Neck Dimensions Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 9:02 am:    hi craigic sorry i didn't notice your post... clearly i'll post my measures there hoping that it comes to life again! i think it would be SO useful to all to have a good neck database. i agree plainly with you, the neck is the single most important part of a guitar... i arrive to say it's even more important than the guitar's sound. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 11:01 am:    Petruz~ Great idea. I've posted this link before, but consistent with this thread, maybe worth seeing it again. The Ibanez Store in the UK publishes its current Ibanez models with actual neck dimensions. Some of them can be closely compared to some of the vintage model neck dimensions. AR3000: http://www.theibanezstore.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=207 AR300: http://www.theibanezstore.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_i d=208 GB10: http://www.theibanezstore.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?products_id=229 AF195: http://www.theibanezstore.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_i d=344 Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 4:54 pm:    All of this is meaningless without including the fretboard radius... Steve Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 12:25 pm:    How about the scale length and fret profile while you're at it... Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 5:29 pm:    And don't forget about your individual hand size and grip. Skinny neck + Big hand = Cramps! Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:53 pm:    Petruz, what do I gain in understanding "feel" from a single mm difference? Just curious. Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 1:33 pm:    dear strings, what do we gain knowing the exact distance between earth and mars? science exists because it explains us in a simple and veritable way so many things, including the "feel" of a guitar neck. that said, there are innumerable factors regarding a musical instrument that cannot be measured - at least not with calipers. if it was so we could generate brand new stradivarius for cheap, but that's pure fantasy. the purpose of my thread – that i fear will not go that far anyway – was to try to know, at least in a schematic way, if an AS200 has a skinnier neck than a 2630 (for example). i thought it would be useful knowing that prior to clicking a $1000 bid on ebay. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 8:36 am:    For anyone missing the point, allow me to try and identify some importance here. In the age of the internet, we're doing much more online shopping. Essentially catalog shopping with simplified descriptions. If a local music store I frequent had such an online catalog, I may have been drawn to this natural finish Washburn 335-style guitar. Used, reasonable, pretty. Fortunately, I got to PLAY it in person. The neck was huge and I really don't get along with baseball-bat necks. If I'd bought this online, I'd be disappointed. I'd feel the need to shave the neck or just sell the guitar. Obviously, trying before buying is the best advice ALWAYS, but what if that's impossible? I don't think Musicians Friend or Ebay sellers are going to start giving 30 day money back guarantees, at least without paying for shipping or re-stocking fees. As shoppers on the internet, I think we can all benefit from acurate, measurable descriptions of what we're thinking about buying. That's the point of this thread/project/whatever it may be. Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 10:56 am:    Petruz...It wasn't a challange, hence the genuine qualifier "Just curious". I guess my question to you would be better queried this way: Based on the specs you site above (and only those specs), if I were blindfolded, would I be able to tell the diff between your AM, AF and FC. I'll refrain from my comments on your science sarcasm...at this point. Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 4:47 pm:    strings, i didn't mean to be sarcastic by no means, i apologise if it seemed so... i tried to explain my point of view in the most effective way i could, that's all. if i were blindfolded and could test, say, alluminium bars instead of actual guitar necks, maybe ay some point i would stop and say "that's the one that feels right to my hand". assuming that those bars were measured earlier, it would be so easy to get one to my luthier and ask "that's the neck i want in my guitar"... i hope this answers your question, sometimes the english idiom gets a little tricky to me. anyway: instead of neck dimensions, think about guitar weight (another dead thread of mine...): i recently got an as200; it weights a lot. i was pointing at an as80 these days too, but by fortune someone had posted its weight here in icw... it weights more than the as200 so... i passed it. Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:33 am:    Not to worry...just defending my curiousity. I'm still not sure I'd sense a millimeter difference...as most necks where I do feel the difference, I've got to believe it would be several mms... or curvature etc. as mentioned above. I agree about weight as some of these beasts get pretty heavy. Balance is another as I have two solid bodies that are neck heavier and two that are not. Your point is smart, but how many sellers on eBay ahve the measuring devices or the sense-by-comparison that multiple axe owners like us have. And music store employees...now that's a tough one ;O) Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:35 am:    Stay the course though...I'm just a hack like the rest of the cattle. Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 11:10 am:    Petruz: I think your idea for compiling detailed measurements on specific necks is very valid. It would be a great asset to anyone who buys guitars sight unseen. Vague terms like "clubby", "baseball bat", "C", "V", etc. are too subjective. To be done right, it's a lot of work and would require tools that many (including myself) don't have. That may be why some of the "volunteers" around here are hesitant to participate. Writing up a spec of the important measurements and exactly where and how to take them is the first step, I'd say. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 6:30 pm:    Writing up a spec of the important measurements and exactly where and how to take them is the first step, I'd say. I agree. This could be the start of a new standard for guitar spec publishing. Maybe the major manufacturers will take notice and start publishing such detailed information - yeah, in a perfect world. All descriptions are objective. For neck profiles at different places along the neck, I use a Sears Contour Guage. It's not the most accurate measuring tool I've ever used, but it's allowed me to approximate the feel of one neck on another, unfinished neck. And, heck, they're only $10 each. When prepping a Fender-style neck for myself, I just push the guage onto the neck of my favorite Roadstar II and voila...there's the neck contour. Now...how to translate that into a measurement or visual representation... Volunteers welcome... Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 7:00 pm:    GB30 H802875 (1988) width @nut = 43mm width @22 fret = 57mm depth @1fret = 20mm depth @12fret = 22mm Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 3:31 am:    NECK DIMENSIONS source: http://www.ibanez.co.jp/world/country/frame_italy.html GB10 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 57mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 23mm Radius 305mmR GB15 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 44mm b : Width at Last Fret 58mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 23mm Radius 305mmR GB200 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 57mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 23mm Radius 305mmR PM100/120 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 57mm c: Thickness at 1st 21mm d : Thickness at 12th 23mm Radius 305mmR AF105/105F Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 58.5mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 26.5mm Radius 305mmR JSM100 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43.5mm b : Width at Last Fret 57mm c: Thickness at 1st 20.2mm d : Thickness at 12th 23.3mm Radius COMPOUND AS103 Scale 628mm/24.75" a : Width at Nut 43mm b : Width at Last Fret 58.5mm c: Thickness at 1st 20mm d : Thickness at 12th 22.5mm Radius 305mmR

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