Replacement pickups

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Author Message Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:44 pm:    I haven't been involved in guitars until very very recently. Means I have missed a lot of the "common knowledge" available to many players and wannabes. One of the things that is most bothersome to me is that there doesn't seem to be anyplace where a guy can find just plain general information on pickups. I can find reviews and testimonials on many individual pups, but its just too much to collect, collate and absorb in any kind of useful form. So, my question is, what are the GENERAL characteristics of the major pickup manufacturerers? Such as Bill Lawrence, Rio Grande, Seymour Duncan, Kent Armstrong, etc. As an example: Stock Epiphone pickups - In my Dot Studio, passable but not brilliant in terms of tonal clarity, string separation and smoothness of sound in both single note and multi-string harmonies and chords. In my Les Paul, the same pickup is dark, muddy and smeared any chord into this homogenized single sound. Seymour Duncan - Replaced the stock Epi's in my LP with Jazz/Custom replacements after listening extensively to samples on the SD website. Sound from Jazz (neck) is incredibly smooth, with highs that are recognizable and clear as a bell even in barred chords. Great jazz tones, rounded and full, well-balanced with rich, complex over- and under-tones. Always sounds good, but easily reveals weaknesses in amplifiers. Custom (bridge) split coil/parallel/series operation. Not the best tonal match with the Jazz, but workable. Has good sound distorted, great twangy sound in single coil and very relaxed in parallel operation. OK - Please help me out with general info on some of the other pickups out there. I am considering either SH-1's or Pearly Gates for my Dot Studio, and would like to know more about the Lace Arenas (can't find ANY review) and Kent Armstrong pickups. Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 6:09 pm:    Gary....welcome The thing to remember about pickups is they are the first thing in your tone chain. You hit the string and they amplify that sound. Then after that it gets complicated. As a newcomers to guitar, you can throw a lot of money at pickups and still be chopping and changing after years. I guess we have all done it. In a way, when you start playing seriously it's easy to turn around and blame the pickups you already have for not getting the tone you want. Then again it could be you, the amp, speaker, pedals, cables and other things. There is a weath of pickups out there to choose from. Anything from a set of old PAF's for $6000 down to the stock Epi's you mentioned for $45 a pair off ebay (yuk!). In a world of pickup confusion, a pretty good bench mark for pickup selection is finding out what your fave guitarist/s is using. Normally if you like how a guy plays you probably dig his tone too. Well not always as I like Santana but hate the tone. Honest though try using that method or else you can pi#s money away on pickups with great ease. Clues to this will be on record sleeves, interviews and band/player websites. As far as your choice goes I've heard the Pearly Gates and liked it. I had Kent Armstrong single coils in my 'Reverend' and swapped them out for Van Zandt "Blues" but the others you mention I have no idea. Like I said it's a big market and it's difficult to try them all out. In fact, near on impossible to try them out and sound clips only give you a rough idea. Not only that, there are plenty of sound clips demos on websites but some of the so called "demonstrators" playing on the clip are probably playing wearing boxing gloves and totally murder the tone so not always a good bench mark there. Hope this helps six Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:11 pm:    Gary, Sometimes it's easier to find a big guitar shop, and try everything and ask a lot of questions. At least by trying a bit of variety, you could find "that" sound and replicate it. Tom. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 7:41 am:    To help completely answer you original post, I don't think there are characteristics to pickup manufacturers. Differences in pickup design can be a big factor, though. For example, Bill Lawrence blade-pole pickups have super clarity even at high gain settings. This is a characteristic of the pickup design. I think if you took PAF-style pickups from different manufacturers, you'd have slightly different variations of the same basic design - but that does not indicate any kind of characteristic for the manufacturer, just that one pickup. There are so many factors which affect a pickup's sound and so many pickups out there...it's impossible to choose. As far as catalogs go, use them for tone response and output statistics but stay away from the descriptions. Manufacturers like to tell you that every pickup is the perfect pickup for you. First off, narrow down your selection range. Do you want high output? More vintage tone? More jangly, chimey tone? The tone you want will significantly narrow your selection possibilities because certain pickup designs do certain things. Other folks' suggestions are quite valid - find someone else's tone that you love and start from there. If you can peg the tones you're looking for and want to discuss this in-depth, I'll be happy to make my suggestions. For the sake of this being an Ibanez forum, though, you might just want to shoot me an email. "Guitar Tech" Craig Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:45 pm:    I myself am a total pickup junkie, and can hopefully add some insight. There are several things that make pickups so confusing: Everybody hears pickups differently, or identifies with different qualities. So it is a very individual thing. And it is very hard to accurately describe how a pickup sounds - I have my language which I use, but it is all very subjective. The pickup is really only a small part of the sonic equation. The guitar and amp play a huge role in shaping the sound. And then you add to that the player's style - this is a huge factor in the tone and overall sound. Then there's the volume and playing situation - a guitar that sounds great at quit levels playing solo may get lost or sound terrible in a live band situation. So considering these factors, where do you begin? It can be a very confusing process. You can read the reviews here ant at harmony-cenntral.com, and come out even more confused. You'll find conflicting and vague reports. 90% of the reviews don't go into much detail, other than to say they sound "great" There is so much personal opinion involved. One person may love a grinding edgy sound, while another may love smooth and warm. I have tried pickups that looked great in the reviews, or that my guitar heros use, and been totally let down. And I've found great pickups in unexpected places. And if you ask around, almost everybody will have a different recommendation. The one time I asked for advise at a shop, I was badly misguided. My advise: The only way to get anywhere is to experiment. Get acquainted with the basic styles of pickups, then start trying them. Buy used on eBay and then sell off the ones you don't like. This is the only way I've been able to make any progress. IMO, this is the only way to find something that works in your personal equation - guitar, amp, effects, playing style etc. Ideally a pickup should compliment a guitar, working with it's general character, and emphasizing or de-emphasizeng various traits. The nice thing about the big names, SD, and DiMarzio, is that they are readily available, and easy to unload on eBay. And they each offer a huge variety of specialized products, vs. a small boutique company which may have a couple more standard pickups. They are a good starting point anyway. Once you identify what it is you are looking for, you can continue to drive yourself crazy and try more and more pickups Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 7:49 pm:    (Sigh) Well, that all would explain why I can't find such info... at least it gives me an excuse to keep tinkering Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 8:20 pm:    Gary, If you give us an idea of what style and sound characteristics you're after, maybe we can narrow it down. I assume you are looking at humbuckers? Is the only guitar the epi, or are there others? In my experience, I'd say generally, that Dimarzios have more of an open "3D" sound, while SD pickups impart more of a tonality of their own, often a vocal tonality. There are exceptions to this of course. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:31 pm:    What I'm looking for is a set of pickups that, clean, have that chime without ring, smooth, robust, full, complex, good treble/bass balance, maybe just a touch mid-rangy kinda of a cross between Larry Carleton and Jeff Golub; and, dirty, can get down into the old Big Brother and the Holding Company growl, as well as shimmer and sing like BB King up in the little strings. These are, I believe, all PAF style pickups - hence my personal interest in the SD SH-1, Jazz, Alnico II Pro and Pearly Gates. I've not found any samples of other makers pickups - that's why I gave examples of what I'm familiar with already, so there would be at least some degree of mutuality in starting points. Whatchagotfame? Thanks, in advance. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:38 pm:    Oops, forgot - In addition to the Epi's, I play an Ibanez AF105F(NT) and a Martin DR, reflecting my jazz/blues orientation musically. I listen to a lot of Joe Pass, Herb Ellington, Charlie Byrd, Larry Carleton, Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel, Johnny Smith, Jeff Golub, Wes Montgomery, etc. on the one hand, and BB King, Eric Clapton, Peter Green, Buddy Guy, Melvin Taylor, Kenny Neal, Hamilton Loomis, Lightning Hopkins, Johnny Winter, Hubert Sumlin, Robert Johnson, Stevie Ray Vaughn. Well, at least you know I have good taste in guitarists. Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 7:40 am:    I like PAF style pickups with Alnico II magnets. Very vocal sounding and great harmonics. But, not a lot of chime. Neck pickup does a phenomenal "woman tone", but to play anything chimey, you'll be looking to split the pickup and switch to single coil mode (which I do...). I would start with Alnico 3 magnets. Maybe 8.5k bridge and 7.8k or 8.0k neck. Alnico 3 has more chime and note definition than Alnico 2. Alnico 5, the modern industry standard, is stronger and brighter but with less "sweetness". Not a bad choice, either, just kind of generic sounding, IMHO. Yes, everyone hears pickups differently and between the guitar's construction, your electronic equipment, etc. anything might sound good or bad. I have based my recommendation on loads of research about factors that influence the pickup itself, and nothing else considered. I also highly recommend HighOrder pickups. Ordering from someone who hand winds pickups gives you the ability to discuss options, desired tone, etc. and collaberate on defining your own pickups specifications. Jeff (the owner) has more knowledge of pickups than most of us will ever have. You'll end up with superior sounding pickups at super-affordable prices. It's a total win-win-win situation. No, I'm not affiliated with HighOrder in any way - I just use the pickups and appreciate the quality, tone, and VALUE. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:23 am:    Gary, I think you're up the right path. A PAF style pickup in the neck without a doubt. There are lots of great options you can explore here. To what's already been mentioned, I'd suggest at the various DiMarzio PAF options, and Harmonic Designs. IMO opinion, the SD PAF styles, the 59, jazz and Alnico II are a little on the bright and twangy site - kind of focused on the high mid tonalities. This may or may not work in the neck position. A PAF style would be a good option in the bridge position too, but could get a little too bright and twangy, in which case you may want to consider one of the hotter, more harmonically rich pickups. You've mentioned the Pearly Gates. The SD SH11 and SH14 are 2 of my favorites - they are both smooth and singing with overdrive, the 11 being more mellow, and the 14 slightly more raunchy. The SH5, SH11 and SH14 are all the same coil configuration, but with ceramic, alnico II and alnico V magnets respectively. The SH5 has a little too much ceramic edge for me, but the 11 and 14 are wonderful if you like a classic rock voicing. The SH11 also gets very close to a Larry Carlton sound for me in my AS200, and SC420 - it's got this great laid back "AHHHH" sound. And the SH14 brought my SC1620 to life - a very rich sound reminiscent of Robben Ford or Jimmy Herring. Regarding the sound samples, this is a tough thing. Again, there's so many other factors that go into the sound you're hearing. There are a couple ways to create samples: one is to play the exact same passages with every pickup on the same guitar. This is what SD has done. The problem here is that every pickup sounds very similar - not actually the case with SD IMO. The other is to try to bring out the unique character of a pickup by playing in a style that the pickup excells at. This is what kinman, and to a lesser degree, Dimarzio have done with their sound samples. I think Kinman did a particularly good job in nailing the sound of their pickups. Garyelcrrt Username: Garyelcrrt Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:28 pm:    Ahhh! Now you're all talking what I wanted to hear! The SH-14 is the bridge pup in my LP, and the one that I split parallel/single/series and while its growing on me, its not the sound I want to combine with the SH-2 Jazz that's in the neck. Not smooth enough, a little too raunchy for the jazz lines I wanted it to put down. And the split coil is an option that will go on every guitar I ever modify because I really like the options as well as the sound. In fact, I have been considering replacing the replacement with either the SH-11 or SH-2(b) to get a little more mellow sound out of it. Another option in my mind has been to purchase a Pearly Gates set for the LP and swap the SH-2(n) with either an SH-11 or an SH-2(b) in bridge position. I've never heard of HighOrder or Harmonic Designs, but will go check them out. The hand-wound option is intriging because I have always wanted wanted to see what changes would come from using solid silver windings over cooper. My hope would be to provide the smoothest, silkiest sound possible, and since I can hear the changes silver provides over cooper when substituted into my stereo wiring (and like it), I've always wanted to try it on a guitar. Thanks, and keep the data coming! Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 1:40 pm:    Craig loves his High order pickups, and it's great that he's found a pickup he likes so much. Here's my issue with a made to order pickup: You have an idea in your mind of what you want to hear, you then try to communicate that with words to the guy winding your pickup, then he produces whatever his interpretation was of what you said. Then you drop it into your guitar, and who knows what you've got. The pickup reacts with the guitar, amp etc. etc. and if your luck is with you, you found something close to what you wanted. But if you don't I guess you're stuck with your custom made pickup. The nice thing about stock pickups is you can experiment, and either return or sell what doesn't work. My $0.02. You might like the SH11. It is a smoothed out, and cleaned up version of the SH14. I have a Benedetto A6 (By Duncan) neck and SD SH11 bridge in my AS200. And it is a great combo for me. The A6 is a very compressed and smooth jazz pickup. They seem pretty well matched, but I'm usually either using one or the other. Another consideration: metal covers will knock off some of the brightness. Check out the Harmonic Designs PAF. "The Classic Humbuckers are a unique design, not another PAF clone, but 'better', according Vintage Guitar Magazine's 'PAF' Shootout. The HD Classics once again came out on top, after comparing some two-dozen PAF's from every other maker, including a set of 'real' $1000 Gibson 1950's PAFs." Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 5:37 pm:    Six...I have to ask, how can you seperate Carlos' tone from his playing...please do elaborate (guitars, years, etc). I only ask because, of all the players in the world's history of guitar, I don't know anyone who's tone is more cloesly related to his playing than Santana Just curious, Strings Craigjc Username: Craigjc Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 7:42 am:    "The nice thing about stock pickups is you can experiment, and either return or sell what doesn't work. " Generally, yes, but I've seen HighOrder pickups sell for more than brand new ones. Why? Well, you will have to wait 2 to 3 months for HighOrder to make your pickups and ones for sale used are available immediately. I agree that if you're trying various pickups, it's way more convenient to stop at a store or get 2 day shipping. Evaluate the pickup, consider something else, buy more, repeat if necessary. For over the counter stuff, I vote for the Pearly Gates. Very similar in "formula" to my HighOrder bridge pickup. SD Alnico Pro II also has specs I'd predict makes a good sounding pickup. Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 1:46 pm:    I'm definitely not trying to dis. the custom pickup approach (I'v come close to doing it myself) just pointing out one of the pitfalls. And it's worth visiting the HighOrder site just for the Kevin Schafer samples I'd say the SD Alnico II nails the Slash tone pretty well, probably because that's what Slash uses. The Custom Custom is my favorite alnico II pickup - it's got a lower peak frequency than the Alnico II, which is almost single coil like. Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 2:32 am:    Strings said: Six...I have to ask, how can you seperate Carlos' tone from his playing...please do elaborate (guitars, years, etc). Hi Strings. Bit late getting back to you on this but I had to go listen to Carlos now and Carlos 30 years ago to get my point over. To elaborate more on the Santana tone. I don't like the sound he has these days. It's mushy and too thick for my liking. It would make anyone sound half decent. Okay granted it still sounds like him and it wouldn't matter what he was playing and playing through it would still sound like him. But you have to go back and listen to albums like Abraxas and Caravanserai where his tone was more hard edge. No master volume but a just Les Paul, SG or L6S pushing those speaker cones hard. Man you can hear the amp compressing and squeezing the notes out. Sorry, the tone he has now doesn't even compare to that. He needs to take a rain check and go listen to his old stuff. Thing I love about Santana the most... he's still playing the same dodgy notes he did back then. Gotta love the guy. six Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 1:08 pm:    Six, It's interesting how people experience tone differently. For instance, I think my ears are overly sensitive to mids where others may not be. When it is bad, it sounds like someone smacking a piece of paper with their finger. See, the one axe that you did not mention was his Yamaha SG - which he played religiously from ~`75 - `85. It was this guitar (e.g. on Moonflower) where I thought both his playing ability and tone improved immensely. I do like the earlier stuff, but the tone (and his playing) was not quite there for me. Moonflower is where I began to appreciate his subtle muddy chords too...amazing! If you have ever heard the Live in Japan (I think it is '73), you could tell his playing had improved a lot live over the Woodstock performance but his control over tone was a little wild for my taste. On to the PRS...I wish he still played the Yamaha! I tend to think most PRSs lack character...just my opinion. But I think Carlos likes it cuz of the amount of control he find with that model and he's the only player that I enjoy that plays a PRS. I think it works well with his Wah-Wah efforts. Best! Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 7:27 pm:    Yeah I liked the Yamaha too. Probbaly killed his back in the end though . Wasn't he using early Boogies by then too? PRS is probably easier on the old boys bones. I wish he would stop messing with the control knobs on the guitar. Can't recall him doing that years ago can you? six Strings Username: Strings Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:01 pm:    2x12 combo eq Boggies with a &%#! pot full of fx hooked up to that SG2000. 58 years old and brought the Xcel Center to its knees last summer...truely a lead guitarist! Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:14 pm:    Truely. I owe him a lot. I was 14 when I heard Samba Pa Ti and was blown away (so was my Mum as she loved it) and between him, Clapton, Duane Allman and a few others I'm stil at it today. six

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