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Author Message Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 7:10 pm:    Ok, bear with me. I think I know the answer to this, but I would appreciate some confirmation if anyone cares to help. I have a gig playing guitar in a bar. I play the melodies against backing tracks I knock up on Cubase. I can do an ok with the backing job with the gear I have, in that it doesn't sound like your 1983 Farfisa on 'calypso' or something. I play electric guitar through the house system. It is a very small bar, in fact it is a cattle truck. Yes, I know, your average venue. The sound system comprises a Sansui CD player (medium), an ok desk with eq and enough inputs, a stereo amp of no distinction - another Sansui, maybe, about 45-60w - and a pair of JBL monitors, which are pretty small but fairly heavy and quite durable. Sorry I can't provide model numbers etc. They normally use this system for background 'all murmur-y' music in the bar (it's posh, too). Here's the problem; I put the guitar through he desk via a Pod, the original one. The guitar sound through headphones is ok, but the sound through the speakers is all flat and weedy. Am I right in thinking that this is because the amp/speakers colour the sound in a different way to a dedicated guitar amp/speaker thing? And to solve the problem, a small power amp should be used? And that you knew I was going to ask such a dumb question? Thanks for not being too abusive in your prospective replies. h Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 11:14 pm:    Where are you getting the headphone feed from and is it a pre or post fader signal? There can be a number of reasons for this. Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 2:37 am:    Do you have the A.I.R. turned on? The switch should be in the "Direct" position, NOT the "Amp" position. Are you using both outputs? If not, make sure the left output is used for a mono signal. If you're still having problems, e-mail me. The Bear Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 3:18 am:    The headphone feed comes off the desk. I don't know if it is pre- or post, sorry. It is controlled by both it's own vol pot and the master slider, if that helps. The AIR switch doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference, and not just in this situation. Yes, using both outputs for the stereo. Thanks h Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 7:23 am:    The AIR switch is a non balanced signal output that does not give you much of a db gain or drop in either position. What kind of mixer are you using? The make and model would help me so I know what kind of control you have per channel. Since you are using left and right outputs are you running into a single stereo channel or using 2 mono channels? Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 10:06 am:    Freak The AIR switch makes little difference both in the volume and the fullness of the tone. I will be able to tell you the make/model of desk in a day or two. I run the Pod into mono channnels one and two and pan them 5 and 7 o'clock. Each channel strip has a 3-band eq, gain, pan and two aux sends. The cd comes in on a sub input through RCAs controlled by a pair of faders. Thanks again. h Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:27 am:    Why don't you try panning both channels center, putting the 3 eq's flat(center) and the pre gain at a little more than 3/4 and then see what you come up with. From their you can try to color the eq to your taste. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 8:08 am:    Hackney also how does everything else sound through the house like microphones ect.? Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 8:56 am:    They don't use the system for anything but playing cds in the bar. It is basically a hi-fi with a desk in the path between the two cd players and the amp. It sounds ok, like an ok hi-fi in an all-wooden environment. I'm playing tonight and I will lt you know the details you want tomorrow. I'll try the panning idea - my eq is flat anyhow, and I use the Pod to (attempt to) tweak the sound. The pre-gain idea might do something, too, I don't know. Like I say, let me get back to you... Still appreciating the help. h Cooltouch Username: Cooltouch Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 7:36 pm:    Hackneyslim, At the risk of asking the obvious, why not just play your guitar through a small amp? Sounds to me like the problem might be the house speakers. I recall many years ago, just being an idiot kid, I thought I'd plug my guitar right into the 'mic' input on the front of my stereo. It worked, sorta, but sounded really awful. A lot like you're describing. Best, Michael Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 7:41 am:    You see, that's why I need to ask these questions. This is what I have been considering doing. There are a couple of drawbacks, in that the backing speakers are way at either end of the bar, so headphone monitoring is really the only way to go, but playing the guitar through the amp makes this more difficult, but not impossible. Also, because of the shape of the bar, the backing track coming out of two distant speakers and the guitar coming through the amp in a different place, this is going to unbalance the mix to various listeners, depending on where they are in the bar. The mixer, Freak, is a Yamaha MX 12/6 ditigal job, complete with effects. Last night went ok, but the sound is definitely not what it could be. Thanks again. h Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 8:40 am:    You could run a line output from the amp to the mixer and that would solve the delay problem Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 9:21 am:    I think steve Vai is using this same system now HackNo matter what you do your sound will be limited,using the jerry rig brand!Get yourself an amp for you guitar, and everything will be honkey dorey... Cooltouch Username: Cooltouch Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 11:04 am:    I think Ibanezfreak's suggestion is a good one. That or just mic the amp so's it's in the PA mix. Best, Michael Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 02-2006 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 11:59 am:    Well, a friend has offered me the use of a Roland Cube 20, which is supposed to be really sweet, and I think this is what I'll do. It has a line out, or what they call a headphone out, which defeats the speaker. Is this an acceptable sound source to put into a desk? I remember recording this way with a Roland Cube 100, as chance would have it, and it was a bit crap, to be honest. Otherwise, I think I'll just play one sound source against the other, and people can just jostle to hear it right. If they complain, I'll tell them to talk to Vai. Thanks for all your input, people - advice at this site is always very friendly and high quality. h Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, December 22, 2006 - 5:45 pm:    Well if the output jack turns the speaker off then use a mic like cooltouch says.

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