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Author Message John Shanley (Johns) Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    There are usually between 80-100 Ibanez items on Ebay everyday. The entire Guitar section contains over 30 pages worth of items. And Ebay is only one of many auction sites. Tell us what you think of auction services like Ebay for finding/buying guitars and related items? If you've had success with auctions, how about passing on some tips for getting the most out of these services? Kyle Kruszewski Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Ebay, what a great concept. It'd be cool if people knew what an "auction" was! It anerves me to no end when I see a guitar online with a ridiculous starting price, then on top of that "(reserve not yet met)." Woah! People are supposed to bid! I wish sellers that had particular prices in mind for their items would sell them in the appropriate places, such as on this site in the classifieds or on Jemsite, not an online auction house. If you're a "crack-smoker" and think that someone ought to pay $4500 for your UV77MC, please, stay away from EBay! Sorry to have to rant like that, but it's a total pet peave of mine. :) Other than that, I think the Internet as a whole has done guitar enthusiasts a great service; especially the collector. It's easy to keep an eye out for that special piece of ellusive gear and keep note of current prices. And as long as we're buying and selling using a third party Internet commerce service (such as Secure Exchange @ www.secureexchange.com), there's very little chance of getting ripped off. With some services, the buyer can arrange to actually see the item in person before a transaction is even finalized. Not bad. Of course, it's hard to beat the vibe of a guitar show, but's still pretty cool. :) Catch you all later, Kyle John Shanley (Johns) Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Kyle: I, too, find the reserve thing a strange concept. Why should I play a guessing game? If you want $100 for something, and I want it for that, I'll bite. If someone wants it more and will outbid me, fine. So, open the bidding at $100 and let the bidders work it out among themselves. Sometimes it looks like most of those bidding are just hoping they stumble over a killer deal and so they low-ball constantly. I've seen some great axes go by with reserves set just above the "going rate" (not what dealers ASK, but what they generally get bought for). But the bids never even come close. This is not serious guitar buying/selling. I get the impression that dealers are flooding the services, with cheap stuff. Maybe trying to catch an unsuspecting buyer who gets caught up in auction fever. Now that I trashed Ebay I have to admit that I have bid on several items. I did win one auction but missed the reserve price. Also, it is a good resource to watch and learn from. But the "real-world" is still to be found in combing the various classifieds. You're right. A guitar show provides something that the Internet doesn't. But the selection that can be found on the net is unsurpassed. I'll save my thoughts on that for the other survey topic. Kyle Kruszewski Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Yeah, it seems that nine times out of ten the seller is playing of his/her gear like it's extremely rare or collectable; and charging accordingly. But every once in awhile, one might come accross some interesting finds. Not too long ago I saw a '77 Ibanez Korina Destroyer NOS. NOS! Woah! I don't believe there was any reserve; just thrown out to the sharks. I think it went for over a grand. . . That's the way I wish it could be all the time. An auction as a liquidation. If you have something cool and want to get rid of it quick, auction it. It seems that most of the people that use EBay want to sell their items, but just have no idea where to sell it otherwise. Oh well. . . Robert Whitaker Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    The one and only guitar I had purchased from Ebay I got SCREWED on. It was an Ibanez EX350. Before I sent payment I specifically asked the seller if anything was wrong with it. He didn't respond until I told him I wouldn't pay if he did not respond. He said there were no problems with it that "he was aware of". When I got the guitar the first thing I noticed was that the trem was askew. Further inspection revealed that the lower bridged post had at one time torn out and a VERY lame repair job was done resulting in a post that was angled down and toward the head. When I complained the SELLER POSTED NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT ME! The full story with photos is at. . . http://www.jps.net/rsw/guitbox.htm JohnS Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Robert: Sorry to hear the bad news. I took a look at your webpage and the photos of the damage did not show. Doesn't ebay have some sort of guarantee now? Is guitbox a private party or a dealer? Challenger Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Robert, I had the same thing happen to a Roadstar, I had to chuck the body in the garbage. I parted it out after that(it only cost me $150 for the guitar and the parts on it were worth more than the guitar itself). I got $50 for the neck. The treble side bridge post collapsed into the body. It was an original Floyd Rose that was installed on the guitar, and it was great while it worked, but those guitars are made of basswood, which is super-soft. If I ever do that again, I'll make sure to get the bushings installed and not just the screws.There is a lot of stress in that area, and sometimes the wood can't take it. Sorry to hear about it. That really sucks. Chris Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    Hello Robert i saw the pics of the guitar and that is a travesty i am appauled by the whole thing i think he should repay you in full plus damages (shipping really) now i had the same thing with a guitar i bought from the shelf ..it was a used FGM 100 and the body is mahogony the studs were pulled out numerous times by the previous owners that alot of the wood was ripped off, thus leaving the studs to rock back and forth and make the guitar go badly out of tune so if you dont have the guitar fixed yet..id like to help you out....email me at philsteed@sympatico.ca Chris njtomlin Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 11:08 am:    I have an eBay success story to share with you. I have been searching for an Iceman bass for quite some time. The prices generally ranged from around $700 to $1600 (Ed Roman has one on his site right now for $1599). While searching for Ibanez basses on eBay, I came across an Iceman with a $100 reserve and subsequently bought it for $300. When it arrived, I was shocked to find that it was brand new, with the plastic still in the back, the original owners manual and warranty card. After nearly a year of searching, I can honestly say that I found a steal on eBay! As to the pricing issues on eBay, I too have noticed that there are quite a few "tire kickers" as evidenced by a recent auction of mine that got over 30 bids on a Washburn B70-RS bass and ended with a high bid of $129! The again, it IS a Washburn. . . Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 3:53 pm:    I was very surprised to read all the negative responses about eBay. I have concluded over 40 auctions (bought and sold) with out a hitch. These deals have included guitars, amps, parts, and literature. I currently own 11 guitars. 7 of them have been the result of eBay transactions. 3 were bought via the web outside of eBay. A quick search on eBay showed 485 Ibanez items up for auction. Where else you gonna find that kind of selection? Since the classifieds are worthless in my area, and the local shops are only interested in Gibson's and Fender's, I love the ability to shop via the internet. Cheers Steve PS; What the hell is a "guitar show"? JohnS Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 5:07 pm:    Steve: Ebay's not bad in my book. Out of 16 guitars, 6 were ebayers, 6 were from classifieds on the Internet and 4 were regular face to face deals. I've also purchased a Peavy Chorus 212 amp and Digitech RP7 over the net. I've purchased numerous parts and catalogs from all over the world. Never had a bad deal...yet. It'll happen someday, I reckon. I also bought and sold another guitar over the net. Bought it from a guy in IL. and sold it to a chap in CA. I could never have done that without the 'net. What's a Guitar Show? A place where dealers come together to hawk their merchandise to the public. The public pays an entrance fee, about $6.00 or more (generally you get a discount if you bring an instrument to sell). The dealers pay for floor space. And everybody is happy buying and selling. They can be big or small events, 1-3 days long and might even include big name/well known artists for concerts or clinics. Peter Frampton played at one I went to (I didn't stay to see the concert). Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 5:38 pm:    Damn, I gots go to one of those! Anybody know how to get a listing of shows around the country? I'm in Oregon. Never heard of such a thing around here. Might have to head up to Seattle for one. We do have the second largest automotive swap meet in the country (May 4-6). I'm going to indulge my other hobby (Hot Rods) this weekend! Thanx Steve ~FLY~ (Guitarworkz) Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 6:50 pm:    Hi guys. Sorry to hear some of you have had bad experiences with Ebay. I've been buying & selling there for a year and a half and generally it's been a good experience. Nowhere will you get access to the parts & brands as you will on Ebay. There are always bad apples out there, people trying to rip you off on the internet or the local music store(here you can crack the guitar on top of their heads). Yes, these kind of people will find it easier to rip you off because of the distance issue on the internet. Some good things about Ebay - Contrary to what someone else here posted I've found that a lot of prices are cheaper then you'll find locally. Why? Competition, my friend. As JohnS stated - do an Ibanez search and you'll bring up pages and pages of guitars for sale. Mostly these are sold by individuals, not guitar shops that need to keep the lights on and have to charge premium prices. That's why Ebay is really good for BUYING and not selling. You won't get top dollar there. But on the other hand it's somewhere that you can easily find a buyer for your stuff just because you're getting serious exposure. The best tip I can give you on buying something is to only buy from a reputable seller - check their feedback profile closely. My own policy is to only buy from someone with at least a 50 positive rating, and little negative remarks. It's just good business. I also look for sellers that don't use a reserve. Also, be patient and bid wisely - I can pretty much guarantee that the strat or gibson that you couldn't live without today will have an identical twin in a couple of weeks or so. If the seller is unwilling to give you a detailed description before you bid move on and save the risk. ~FLY~ Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 8:29 pm:    ~FLY~, Amen! I ALWAYS look at the feedback profile, not just the rating number. If I have any questions or if something doesn't feel right, I send an e-mail using the "Ask seller a question" option. If I don't get a prompt reply that I like, I move on. Another thing to be wary of is condition grading. Keep in mind that only an Ibanez enthusiast knows what specific problem areas each series has. Ask specific questions! People have different opinions on grading also. What is "mint" to some is "excellent to others. I tend to be VERY critical in this department. If it ain't flawless, it ain't "mint"! Cheers Steve John (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2001 - 10:26 pm:    Helping Ibanez fans to become more knowledgeable consumers and setting "myths" straight were 2 goals of this site. Regarding ebay feedback, I like to look at the actual items that were bought or sold. If they weren't guitars or musical items, but toys or something of that nature, I put more effort into asking very specific questions. Like, do they know how to pack a guitar properly. Also, if they have been buyers ALL the time and this is their first sale, I ask more questions to determine how knowledgeable they are. Asking lots of questions is key. Also,I believe GOOD pictures are important for a successful transaction. I tend not to trust "ratings". I ask what blemishes, if any. And do you have pictures of them. Believe it or not, I bought my '77, Ash 2617 over the phone from a dealer in West Virginia who was blind! He would feel the guitar and then his wife helped him describe any abnormalities. He was very accurate! I'd buy another guitar from him. Terry ORourke Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 2:56 pm:    I like ebay and have bought and sold several guitars over the last 2 years. Unfortunately I've had 3 bad buying experiences 2 ebay and 1 yahoo. Both ebay bombs were Ibanez guitars an am-255 and an as-50, both times I asked all the right questions and was giving all the wrong lies. My last travesty was from a nameless charter boat captain in Florida. He advertised the axe as a Santana model as-50 in near mint condition with coil taps(?), I asked about the overall condition, the neck, frets, electronics etc. He responded that it was all fine a 9 out of 10. What a joke, it arrived with broken pup switch ( he that that was the coil tap) with extremely noisy pots, many scratches and cracks, hazing, corruded hardware and frets so worn that many notes did even change pitch because the fret below was higher. He of course refused to accept a return and dinged my ebay profile with a negative rating stating I was too fussy, expecting a near mint 9/10 guitar to be something less than perfect. I will continue use ebay and hope that similar experiences will not occur. JohnS Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 3:54 pm:    Terry: Sorry to hear about your being abused by the swabby in Florida. I hope that you slammed his feedback. BTW, I wasn't aware that Santana even played an AS model (let alone any Ibanez. Yamaha SGs, I thought.) ~FLY~ (Guitarworkz) Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 5:05 pm:    Terry, By the sound of things, maybe your boat captain may have salvaged that guitar from an old wreck or something. One of the bad points about leaving negative feedback is that people use the system to retaliate for negative comments. Assuming that you paid for your item in a timely matter, what right did he have to post negative comments about you? Right? You fulfilled your obligation. You weren't happy with the product and you let the world know. If I'm unhappy with a transaction and feel it warrants negative feedback I try to get the other person to leave me feedback first so there's no retaliation. You can do a follow up to their negative comments on your own feedback, explaining that the remark is retaliatory to discredit the comment. I also keep a list of sellers I've had good dealings with and from time to time I'll browse their auctions. I usually do this with other guitar shops selling their wares or even online music store auctioneers. It's low risk.. ~FLY~ Mike G. Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 1:52 am:    AMEN to the above messages. The 2 negatives I received were both from sellers who were unwilling to work things out and grossly mistated the real condition of the guitars they were selling. There were other cases where I chose not to leave a feedback at all because I knew it would only result in a retaliatory feedback to me and the overrated guitar was not as blatent as a out and out lie, but more like a less experienced seller. I have heard comments like,The guitar store told me that it was near mint...I have never seen a better looking 20 yr.old guitar....It's nicer than any of my friends guitars.... I always ask the offenders how THEY would feel if they were on the receiving end of the bad deal and in some cases,they probably were.They just decided to get their $$ back by screwing someone else or not being forthcoming with facts that they know about the item. As far as ratings are concerned,I was surprised to see a few sellers with 2 and 3 different ebay names at the same time.I don't understand how Ebay even allows this but as with anything,if there are loopholes,somebody will figure a way to get through them. Now, does ANYBODY want a near mint all original Artist with a changed tuners,changed pickups,non-working tone pots,cracked neck pocket with a near mint case that has broken hinges, a guitar low E string holding the handle on and the seam split open at the bottom of the case ? Ah shoot ! I forgot to mention it was VERY RARE. BID NOW BEFORE ITS GONE Mike G. Joerg (Jht) Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 5:19 am:    Mike G.: Try this link, maybe this'll become true someday... EBay - not serious ...at least you must be a lucky guy - that's what I thought when drooling over Mikes Paradise BTW: How many fingers/hands do you have? ;) Jörg John (Johns) Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 7:12 am:    Jorg: The Ebay - not serious link is hilarious! I, too, agree with Mike: please keep up the excellent contributions you are making to this site! Mike G. Posted on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 1:23 am:    Joerg, I have 10 thumbs.Great for string bends though Mike G. Fred B. (Fredb) Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 7:19 pm:    I'd have to agree that ebay is probably the best place for selection of vintage Ibanez, but that many times it's the *worst* in terms of pricing. This is especially true for Artists and Professionals, where it's really easy to overpay in comparison to typical dealer prices. Part of me thinks that ebay is directly responsible for the ~30-40% rise in dealer prices of vintage Ibanez guitars over the past couple of years... (The other part thinks it's just a result of aging players getting sentimental for the guitars they started out with, and finding that the quality is right up there even though Ibanez used to get trashed a lot.) Who knows for sure? I've generally had good success with ebay purchases. The worst case was with a guitar that was called a "9.5", but came with a 1" finish gouge in the top, cracks in the pickup rings, and with a few other nicks around the body. Funny thing is that once the anger cleared it's become one of my favorite guitars, despite the nicks. Fred Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 11:33 am:    I am really starting to feel like an idiot. Where are these "dealers" you guys keep talking about? I'm lucky to see ANY used Ibanez guitars in the shops out here. Much less anything worth getting excited about. Without the web, I'd have no collection to speak of. As for pricing, what do you use for comparison? How do you estimate the market value for an item you've never seen before? Cheers Steve JohnS Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 12:18 pm:    Steve: You're on the wrong side of the US, I guess. I went to a show in Long Island yesterday and saw a NOS '78 Bob Weir standard. The dealer wanted $895 for it. $500-600 is standard. But this was absolutely mint condition. If it had vines, I would have considered it. There were a few other Ibanezes, but nothing as clean and interesting as the NOS Weir. As far as pricing, the majority of dealer's prices are inflated. Pricing guides are often inaccurate and always dated. Both are only starting points. I find that ebay is a great barometer of what the market will pay, today. Next best are classifieds. Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 5:29 pm:    John, Lol !! I guess I was whining a bit, eh? It has been a while since I spent a day visiting shops in the area. Maybe I'll do that this weekend! Perhaps something of interest will show itself. Steve Fred B. (Fredb) Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 8:26 pm:    Steve, Might want to try checking out Vintage Guitar magazine too, when I was speaking of "dealers" I meant the sources that are usually at guitar shows, in Vintage Guitar, and/or on the web. There's a lot of overlap as many dealers are on all three. I believe that some of the more experienced collectors (read: not me) have special "sources", but that sort of info comes from spending a lot of $$ over a long time period. As John mentioned, dealer prices are generally inflated so there's a percentage to factor off to get to a typical selling price. For ebay, it's sometime possible to get a "feel" for the pool of bidders. One of the things that sends up major warning signs for me is when a person auctions off a guitar, then ends up a high bidder on a different guitar of the same model (auctioned by a different id) a few weeks later. Then there's the whole phenomenon of "social bidding", kind of like a mass pile-on for well known rarities, but that's a topic all its own. Fred Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 5:30 pm:    Fred I do make the rounds of VG and other sites with some regularity. Since my focus is the Roadstar series, I find most "dealers" or shops usually don't have much to offer. I believe this is simply a case of limited interest. Roadstars are definitely not a "money maker" guitar. Therefore, eBay is the best source for me. Thanx to all for your input on this subject. Cheers Steve Mike G. Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2001 - 11:41 pm:    Hey guys, Have to add a new one to list of who not to buy from on Ebay. Hi_speeder@yahoo.com AKA Mat_sco@hotmail.com Even though he walked away with over $900.00 of my money on 2 guitars which he used different names to sell at Ebay, Even though I was reasonable enough to post a positive feedback for him on a bolt neck AS50 made in Korea that was listed as a Ibanez Japan made model and, Even though that same listing had a different guitar pictured which of course was a setneck with the original Artist style headstock, Even though he agreed to send a refund but did not until he saw that I had also won another auction which he had under a different name, In spite of all my efforts to be a good guy,This BUTTHEAD calls me a CON MAN and a CLOWN. I was a clown for doing business with this LOSER in the first place. Don't make the same mistake I made by giving a guy with a bad record another chance. His negative feedback is well deserved. If he ever comes around my area,his Buttkicking will be well deserved too ! Sorry to rant on but I have had it with these lowlifes that make the Ebay waters unsafe to swim in.If Ebay wont ban him,I hope us at the ICW can. Hope you all fare better ! Mike G. jerryneves Posted on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 2:02 am:    These comments always make me nervous. I guess I have had really good luck on E-BAY. I bought an AM205 and an AS200, both of which were as nice or better than described (AND I AM PICKY!). The AM205 happened to be SETH's, a frequent contributer to this sight. The tough thing is that you search and search local guitar shops for months/years to find a particular guitar. I live in the SF Bay area where there are at least 50 shops within 30 minute radius yet couldn't find an AM205, let alone a clean one. Same thing goes for that 60's strat that I am still searching for, yet there all on E-BAY all the time. I would have gotten the strat on E-BAY, but I fear being ripped off. Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 10:44 am:    Mike, Very sorry to hear that. You can take legal action against this butthead. He is guilty of fraud (besides being an unscrupled ass). eBay auctions are legal contracts in the eyes of the court. Present all of the info you have to eBay. They don't want a-holes on their site anymore than we do. All, As I've said before, check out the seller's feedback. Ask questions before bidding. And most of all, if it feels wrong/weird/too good to be true, DON'T BID. I realize this probably wouldn't have prevented Mike's hassle. However, don't let a few jerks prevent you from using on-line auctions. As for the previously mentioned slimeball, if everybody were to e-mail warnings to the bidders on his auctions, we might shut him down. Peace Steve JohnS Posted on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 10:56 am:    Mike: I agree with Steve. If the guy misrepresented the product in word and picture, he's guilty of fraud. Ebay would certainly want to know about this, no? So, you got a refund on the first guitar, only because you got a second guitar from the guy? How'd the second transaction work out? Can you give us the ebay item numbers on this(ese) transactions? Seth (Seth) Posted on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 11:07 am:    I'm sorry to hear about your troubles as well, Mike. Steve, your comments are right on. However, is it "legal" to send a bidder an e-mail warning? Does anyone know eBay policy regarding this issue? Mike G. Posted on Friday, June 22, 2001 - 10:25 pm:    Hello all, Thanks for the condolences. The item #s are: 1419117430 Ibanez AS50 w/HSC JAPAN*ARTIST/335* 1422462962 Ibanez Artist- 1981 Flametop-JAPAN The issue with the second purchase was in spite of asking again, It was supposed to be "no significant dings or scratches front or back" Well I guess the inch long scratch on the front and the 2 inch scratch to the wood on the back was not significant to him but it was to me. Once again,the pictures did not show the scratches I did overlook the tip off when he stated "body and neck are in good original condition". What does that mean anyway.It seems to be a way out for someone hiding something. I am not looking for a MINT guitar unless it is represented as MINT.But scratches down to the wood are something that I would state clearly to any potential buyer.And even when asked about it prior to getting the guitar,again "nothing worth mentioning"... I have tried and continue to try and get Ebay to do something about this guy. The thing that gets me is I really tried to be diplomatic about it several times and still got the shaft and 2 negatives for my trouble. That brings me to 4 negatives from those who could care less about you after the sale is made and they have your money. If you look at my feedback and see the feedback I leave, you will see that I am easy to work with and fully appreciate most of the sellers on Ebay that I have dealt with,some of which several times. I hope these bad apples get what they deserve.NO BUYERS ! Mike G. Steve (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2001 - 1:15 am:    Seth, Good question! If one were to carefully word his message, I doubt if there would be any recourse. Something like; "Dear fellow eBay member, Use caution when bidding on auctions from (insert seller name). Please read his/her feedback carefully. Also be aware that he/she has multiple eBay accounts." Since this is basically restating eBay's recommendations, I can't se how it could be "illegal". Cheers Steve JohnS Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2001 - 1:30 pm:    Mike: After looking at both auctions, I'd have to say that the first is definitely fraudulent! The only tip off that it "might" be bogus is the word "Artstar" in the description. The AS-50 pictured does NOT match the Artstar era. Regardless, his picture and description does NOT even hint that this is NOT the guitar being offered. This is the classic bait and switch game. His wording on the second auction about "Body and neck finish are in good orginal condition with no significant dings or scratches front or back." would be a misrepresentation, if it arrived with the damage you've reported. He's also makes another blunder with: "Set-in neck is 3 piece maple with 24 fret ebony fretboard and abalone dot inlays." This AR100 has no 24 fret neck. His reply back to your negative feedback is slanderous. A scam was perpetrated, but not from your side of the transaction. Let us know if you think an "e-letter" campaign to ebay's greviance dept (or whoever handles this stuff) would help get this guy straightened out. Also, send me his name and all email addresses you know of for this guy. I'll make sure he doesn't get on this board. mike g. Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2001 - 8:49 pm:    John and all the gang, While I knew the AR100 did not have 24 frets,the idea that it had abalone dot fret markers was a big interest to me since I have only seen that on the Musicians,2680's and the 2618 Artists. Ibanez has done many surprising things and this would have been a cool rarity if it were true. Fraud ? NO DOUBT Slander ? Probably Misrepresenting the items ? NO DOUBT Do any one of us want to do business with someone like this...NO WAY , NO DOUBT ! I was actually hesitant to voice my experience with this guy out of embarrassment that I let this happen to me. But to me,that is like a female who does not report a rape and the perp goes on to the next victim knowing he can get away with it. This guy has alot of auctions featuring Ibanez and I want to make sure no one else becomes his victim. A petition to Ebay may be something that would work to remove this guy or maybe change the rule allowing someone to operate with different ebay names AT THE SAME TIME. Whats to stop someone from bidding on their own items to drive up the price ? I will email you all the email addresses (3)I have for this DOO-DOO HEAD (a term I borrowed from my young nephew). As far as taking legal action, It would cost me more than I stand to gain and if it came down to it,WHERE would a court date be held? Ebay is still a great place to find great guitars and the 200 + positive transactions I have had attest to that. John has seen first hand some of the nice guitars that I was able to call my own as a result of Ebay including that real nice CHALLENGER STRAT COPY that he now plays from time to time... Peace, Mike G. JohnS Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 10:58 am:    Hi All: I try not to pick on auctions, but here's one that makes me VERY suspicious. The tone is slick and the claims play fast and loose with the facts, I feel. (I hate to say it of a fellow New Jersian.) It's certainly NOT 30 years and so "rare" is not accurate. Anybody see anything else that would confirm or deny the statements made in this auction? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1462469375 Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2002 - 11:53 am:    Out of 5 purchases on eBay, I've had really good luck on 4 of them. 2 guitars and an amp were in awesome shape. My latest purchase, a 470s (fixed bridge Sabre) came in with a twisted neck, action that was a little messed up and a cracked fingerboard; at first, after discussing it with the seller, it was determined that it was damaged during shipping. But now I believe that it was like this originally. I don't think he was trying to rip me off, I think he just didn't really know that there was anything wrong with it. It plays, just not like a Sabre should - (maybe Gibsons play like this?) The seller now has the guitar again, along with my money, because FedEx shipped it back to him for some reason after I submitted it for an insurance claim. So I guess the moral is that you should ask very specific questions, like "does the neck appear curved or twisted when you look down it from the bridge?" and "how high is the high-E string off the fret board at the 12th fret? Do any of the strings buzz or hit other frets when fretted", "describe any physical defects or blemishes". And it would be a good idea to establish a return policy before bidding if the guitar does not match the description. And if it's an expensive guitar, it might be a good idea to have the seller take it to a shop and have them look it over. Russellw (Russellw) Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2002 - 12:57 am:    Hi guys Just to throw in my two cents worth - I've had largely positive experiences from both E-Bay and Yahoo in over 70 transactions but I'd have to say that there will always be fraudulent sellers (and buyers for that matter) as well as those who are just plain inexperienced. Most honest sellers are prepared to rectify an inaccurate listing if they are e-mailed with the correct information and I'm inclined to be suspicious of those who don't. At the end of the day it is still a case of let the buyer beware as it has always been. I've always found this forum a useful place to gather info on things Im not sure about as well as reasonable price guidelines when needed. As a community of like minded enthusiasts it can only benefit all of us to share the accumulated knowledge in this way. Cheers Russ Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 8:22 pm:    After thinking about this for a little, it occurred to me that eBay has really stabilized prices on collectable items. Before eBay, it was probably pretty hard to estimate the value of some collectable items - a pawnbroker or flea market vender might have sold an item very cheaply, while a collector might have sold that very same item to another collector for a very high price. On eBay, an item will sell for what the general public is collectively willing to pay. The pawnbroker has no need to sell it cheaply when he can get more by selling it on eBay; and the collector can get a better deal (and selection) by going to eBay. I guess it's a good thing. I do agree that all this low opening bid/high reserve stuff is a little annoying. I have sold stuff with and without a reserve, and I guess having one may serve to drive up the bids a little, but in most cases, it'll go for what it's worth. -Funkle Bcalla (Bcalla) Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 2:05 pm:    I have purchased two Musicians on Ebay, and I am quite satisfied with my experiences. I think that for collectable guitars it is very unlikely that the buyer will get a great bargain for the reason stated above. But I do like the ability to submit a proxy bid and not worry about it. If the market will bear a higher price than my maximum, then I lose, but my bid will only rise to meet/beat competitive bids. There is an interesting rant regarding Ebay on Ed Roman's web site (http://www.edromanguitars.com/rant/ebay.htm). He describes every possible scenario in which a buyer or seller can get screwed. However, his opinion comes across a bit tainted because he also complains that Ebay has evaporated the used guitar market for dealers. For those that don't know of Ed Roman, he has some pretty strong negative opinions of Ibanez guitars that are likely to annoy those of us who belong to this forum. Since he changes his 'rants' periodically, I'm not sure if the anti-Ibanez article is still on his site. Bob C. Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 6:12 pm:    Re: Ed Roman Hmmm.....He makes some interesting points, but many of his claims are just full of crap. "Buy American or else we'll get knocked off the top of the food chain?" whatever. And then when you look at the guitars he sells, most of them are from overseas! .....full of crap. The funny thing is, for an "anti-Ibanez" operation, there is a really good resource on dating Ibanez guitars there. Gitfiddle1 (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 6:45 pm:    Trust me, Ed Roman's "rants" on Ibanez are still on his site. I find it amusing that he bashes production guitars so much. How many beginner/entry level players start out with a "hand made" guitar? If it weren't for those affordable "production" guitars, he wouldn't have any customers! As for his "rants" about eBay, about half of those scenarios are due to ignorance on the part the seller or buyer (or both). The rest are examples of a con artist plying his trade. EBay is not to blame for any of these situations. His "rants" should be directed at the buttheads exploiting the auction sites. Keep in mind that eBay is nothing more than a service. The success of any auction/sale depends on the honesty of the buyer and seller. "Buyer beware" applies to any purchase, anywhere, anytime. I was buggered worse by a local music shop than I ever have been by an internet transaction. That shop gets no business from me or my friends now. I learned my lesson... Cheers Steve Cameron (Cameron) Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 5:33 am:    Guy's for what it's worth,I think Ebay's worth a good look.Let's face it there are times where we don't have all day to search our favourite spot's for that special bargain,but when the other half has the Sh*&'s with you there is always somewhere you can go right.Maybe you'll find that special Ibanez,maybe you won't,but at least it's out there to satisfy your needs,and you can never have to many Ibanezes in the house. Cameron Gitfiddle1 (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 10:52 am:    "you can never have too many Ibanezes in the house" Cameron, could you please explain this fact to my wife? LOL !! Cheers Steve Fredb (Fredb) Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 1:05 pm:    Jeez this Ed Roman guy must be one of the most well-known-hyped-and-bashed dealers out there, in just reading different boards and newsgroups his name never fails to pop up at one time or another. Would say you'd have to automatically discount any opinion a dealer may have on ebay, because his profit/loss has most likely been affected by it in the past few years. I'd also argue that ebay and sites like this one have leveled the playing field in the buyer's advantage. All it takes now is a small investment of time to get a more accurate picture of a guitar's true market value. Sure, ebay has its occasional over/under valued auction(s), but it's still better than any other gauge that's been available before. For details on vintage Ibanez, I can usually just smile and nod at whatever story a dealer decides to tell me, since they typically have less info than I do on the models. That's not to bash dealers in general; they have to track a whole load of brands and models where I can just focus on what I'm interested in. It's amusing now because with every older Ibanez they just say "RARE RARE RARE" and try to jack the price up. Fred Gitfiddle1 (Gitfiddle1) Posted on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 2:36 pm:    A very useful eBay tool is to look at the completed actions for a given search. You can see the actual closing dollar amount. Of course, they only keep the auctions in the database for about 30 days. I'm sure a lot of dealers are being affected by internet sites like eBay. Educated buyers always cut into the profit margin! Ed Roman may bash production/import guitars like Ibanez, but he'll gladly sell you a complete collection of JEMs for $140,000... Cheers Steve Cameron (Cameron) Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 5:08 am:    Steve, I'll send your wife the gospel of St Ibanez,where it says in Fujigen 3:16, no women shalt ever bare vengence on thy beloved husbands Ibanez collection. As for Mr Ed, he's a smart operator, "slag em & sell em" Cameron Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 1:48 pm:    LOL!!!!!!!!! Cameron, could you cc my wife on that? "Steve, I'll send your wife the gospel of St Ibanez,where it says in Fujigen 3:16, no women shalt ever bare vengence on thy beloved husbands Ibanez collection." Funkle Fredb (Fredb) Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 2:22 pm:    Hey at least my girlfriend can't say I'm spending *her* money, could always be worse though...think that if I spent my early years with an LP instead of an Artist, I'd be in some serious debt right now Johns (Johns) Posted on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 3:06 pm:    Amen to that, Brother Fred! Maniac (Maniac) Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 9:49 pm:    Hello everybody, Here we go again. Another one for the "shame on you" list of ebay sellers. Yet another seller who stretches the truth to the max. Here's the item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=892281974&rd=1 If you read the description of the neck, frets, action and overall playability, this guy pratically raves how nice this one is and the old "I hate to let her go" kind of thing. It could not be further from the truth. The action is way high at the 12th fret and STILL buzzes on open strings. Try to do any notes above the 12th fret and it frets out...Then there is the 1" long seperation of the fretboard near the nut that is wide enough to fit a heavy gauge pick into it...2/3 of the pick fits in. Oh yes, lets not forget the "near unused" condition of the frets....Heavy wear to the treble side and DEEP gouges in the fretboard, 14 gouges total. AND, I forgot to mention that the neck pickup cuts out when the volume is set above 8 and the other 3 pots are very noisey.... Of course, I tried to be calm and reason with the seller to avoid the inevitable negative feedbacks. His response was pretty much " if you don't like it ,resell it on Ebay and don't bother me again... Undeterred, I again try to appeal to any sense of decency he might have and gave him ample time and emails to work this out. I even gave an extra few days for him to cool off and reconsider his decision. Finally telling him that he was leaving me no choice but to let the ebay world know what type of seller he is by posting a negative feedback. I knew full well that I would get yet another retalitory feedback from yet another seller who lied about the guitar he was selling. Then he lied by saying I refused a refund... The good news is, I have left 425 + feedbacks (Maniac that I am) and I have only had 5 total negatives, 2 of which were from the same seller using different names. In every case the negatives were from sellers who flat out lied and were totally unwilling to work things out or take the guitar back even if I ate the shipping both ways. I still don't understand how the buyer should get a negative when he pays promptly for what he thinks he will get... The other good news is, I have added (and sold) alot of guitars that everyone was pleased with. (ESPECIALLY ME)and the body on this one is remarkably clean without rash,chips or dents. So if you see a listing by guitarswanted@yahoo.com, proceed with extreme caution ! BTW, I did check his feedback record and at the time it was flawless. It turns out that most of his feedback was from small stuff like books and such. If anyone would like to read the emails,feel free to ask and I will send them to you. And to guitarswanted@yahoo.com, the last guy who pulled this has made his feedback profile private even though it shows the total negatives and neutrals that he has earned by being untruthfull and that was AFTER he was suspended from ebay for a good while to hopefully reflect on his actions. Since that time, he has had very few people bidding on his auctions recently and I hope that us Ibanez lovers had something to do with that. Peace, Maniac Mike Maniac (Maniac) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 1:30 am:    Update on the above auction. Feedback Left By kehena for eyebonez@aol.com Date kehena (guitarswanted@yahoo.com) (60) Jul-29-02 09:20:50 PDT Item# 892281974 Complaint : LEFT NEGATIVE FEEDBACK REFUSED REFUND ON GUITAR COMPLETE LIAR Response by eyebonez@aol.com - No refund / apology offered.Told me not to bother him again.Retalitory feedback Then his response to my feedback for him: eyebonez@aol.com (289) Jul-28-02 05:26:18 PDT 892281974 S Complaint : Said neck was CHERRY,flat&set low,frets near unused, fretboard xlnt. ALL LIES! Response by kehena - I SAID "NO" TO REFUND, 6 EBAY PICS, LOTS OF AD, EYBONEZ SUCKS Follow-up by eyebonez@aol.com - Another retalitory feedback.Fretboard gouged /separated,action 1/4 w/ buzz,bowed There it is, He actually proved that he is a lier by stating that he offered a refund and I refused it then saying that he said no to a refund and I suck. The word refund never even came up in my emails to him nor his reply to me. In fact, I was trying so hard to avoid this I was actually pleasant in my emails to him and urged him to think it over The bottom line is in the last 6 months he earned 2 negatives in 12 transactions. His was the only negative for me in 64 transactions in the last 6 months. Sorry to rant on to all of you about this. I'm just tired of letting guys like this get away with it. Rant off Mike G. Johnm (Johnm) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 4:59 am:    Hi Mike, What an ass! Thanks for sharing. Maniac (Maniac) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 9:27 am:    Johnm, Wow, you are up very early today. Thanks for the sympathy and taking the time to read all of that. Here is what I emailed him after I recieved it: Dan, I am very disappointed with this guitar even though the body looks good for its age. First off, it was delivered to me HEADSTOCK DOWN..AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BOX..Luckily because of your heavy bubblewrapping of it, it was not broken. Thanks for the good wrapping of it. After unwrapping the guitar, the first thing I noticed was the seperation crack at the top of the fretboard near the nut on the low E side about 1 inch long. It is seperated enough to slide a heavy gauge pick in and out. The next thing I noticed were the deep gouges in the fretboard on the first 6 frets and the heavy wear of the frets for the first 3 strings. Next, I looked at the action which even though set at 1/4 high at the 12th fret, it still "frets out" and buzzes. A pretty nasty backbow in this neck too. I have a very large collection of Ibanez guitars from 1974-1985 and I know what to expect even if it is a 1977. Please understand that I relied on your item description, feedback rating and even your email address when making the decision to place my bid. Below is part of your item description that just plain is a real stretch of the facts about this guitar. I have been involved in over 400 guitar transactions and I am not looking for a mint guitar when it doesn't say mint. I do expect it to live up to the item description however. The Ibanez vintage guitar community is pretty small and bad news travels faster than good news, so please lets resolve these issues fairly. I am a regular contributor to Ibanez Collectors World website. I do not want to hurt anyones reputation or feedback record unjustly, so please, lets work this out. Here was his reply to my disappointment after I recieved the guitar : I am sorry but adjust the neck, I described the guitar accurately, if your unhappy relist it on ebay, I have done an excellent job detailing every detrail of the guitar, I put on a bunch of photos. adjust the neck if you pick hard, I played that guitar at a party the weekend before I shipped it too you and it did not buzz etc, its yours and if you want to ding my ebay feedback, well go ahead and see what I say about you, dont bother me again, kehena I ask all of you, Did I go about this all wrong ? Was my email language too harsh ? I think I was actually too soft on this guy but I am open to any suggestions from everyone on what should have been said or how I worded my email to him. I did email him several times after with no replies to try to avoid this mess and give him time to rethink his position and one final time prior to posting the negative feedback. Each of those emails were really non-threatening and more like actually pleading to whatever moral fiber (or good business sense) he may have to do the right thing. Please give me your thoughts on this. I respect your opinions. Regards, Mike G. Johnm (Johnm) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 4:22 pm:    Hey Mike, I wasn't up that early. The forum software John S is using on this site records the server date when posting a message. Since the webserver is located in the USA and I'm in Holland it looks like I'm an early bird ;-) Anyway, this whole Ebay issue has got to be really frustrating. I don't think it really matters what tone of voice you use in your emails to this guy. Apparently he is using Ebay to make a quick buck and could not care less about service or happy buyers. I think you should not waste any more time on contacting this guy. You might as well contact Ebay directly and complain about him. Good luck. Johm M Blues (Blues) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 4:33 pm:    Mike, Sorry to hear of your deal gone bad on ebay. Thanks for the Buyer Beware WARNING!!! I had a similar experience last month with the "badfeedbackdude" regarding the exact same type of Ibanez Les Paul copy! regards, BLUES Sixvsix (Sixvsix) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 6:26 pm:    Hello Mike Boy, what a week you've had! I'm really sorry to hear you got stung. Just proves that you can't trust anyone these days (apart from your mum). Lets hope your next buy is something real special at a bargain price. Good luck and commiserations from across the pond Six Maniac (Maniac) Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:59 pm:    Johnm, Blues, Sixvsix Thanks for your sympathy on this matter. I was in contact tonight with the bidder who left him his other recent negative feedback. The seller ran a no reserve auction and after the auction ended, the high bidder contacted him for the total with shipping and insurance, he was told by this same seller that the guitar was not his and the owner did not want to sell it now ! More than likely it was because the auction did not meet the price he was hoping to get for the guitar. This is a very clear breach of the rules of ebay and the law for that matter. No reserve means the high bidder wins....period. I guess the seller had better stick to selling books and leave the guitars alone. Thanks again to all for letting me take up so much of your time. Mike G. Munch (Munch) Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 7:19 am:    Mike, I am very sorry to hear of your bad experience. I agree that you approached the issue in the proper and gentlemanly way. However, when you have an insatiable appetite for Ibanez goodies, and a budget to match, you are definitely going to open yourself up to some risk. Having conducted over 400 Ebay transactions, you have given yourself an excellent chance of being conned at least a few times. You know, if you swim in the ocean often enough, you will get taken by a shark. Or the more you gamble, the more chance of losing. I'm a cautious buyer - for two reasons. Firstly, I can't afford to get burned even once on a guitar, and secondly, I am very picky and would never buy a guitar without seeing it for real. Mike, I feel for you, but the reality is that due to the sheer volume of transactions you make, you have to expect to get burned at some stage. This in no way excuses the drip that did this too you, but not everyone out there is a saint. Take care and thanks for thr warning. Regards, Mark Bcalla (Bcalla) Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 8:10 am:    Hi Mike - I think Mark's comments above about Ebay are sad, but true. My experience on Ebay is 100% positive, but on the other hand I have only 8 transactions, not 400. Of the 8, 2 were guitars, the rest were small items. Unfortunately, I can't imagine how people can behave as badly as this seller, so I tend to be a bit more trusting than I probably should. My Ebay ettiquette makes me uncomfortable even bidding against frequent bidders (such as yourself and Orval) who I only know as Ebay names. I don't want to take a chance of driving up the price on something unless I really want it and think I have a shot at it. I considered using a sniping service on one guitar I was going after, but I recognized the name of the high bidder & decided that I didn't want that kind of reputation. So I guess I'm saying that I don't blame you for having such a strong reaction, but people like that are part of the landscape. Your post helps the rest of us avoid this particular sleaze, so thanks. Bob C Johns (Johns) Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 10:23 am:    Mike: Very sorry to hear your plight with this seller. I think your choice of wording was very appropriate to working out a solution. His response certainly wasn't. You've done your best, so I guess you need to figure out what you want to do next. I know, take him to Judge Judy! (I'm actually half serious). Mark's comments about the inevitableness of being ripped off, however realistic, are certainly sad. Add ebay to the ever-expanding list of commercial, political, judicial and other institutions that promise, but can't or don't deliver when the time comes. Ebay is a dot.com success story. They've grown fat on the millions of transactions they've brokered. But their growth has also created a platform that is now the playground of many more unscrupulous persons. Ebay needs to show that their policing policies have teeth. Keep the rip-off artists out and show the honest persons that they don't need to fear doing business, via ebay. Until then the marketplace needs to keep themselves aware of the unscrupulous practices of specific persons/businesses. Education is the only form of protection that we have. Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 2:36 am:    So far, I've had mixed experiences with eBay, mostly good, but I've had some problems. It's stories like this that make me want to use a service like escrow.com. Anybody have any experience with this? -Sven Koadude (Koadude) Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 6:29 pm:    I own 10 guitars and would never buy a guitar till I had my hands on it, granted there are sellers with high ratings there's the overrating of condition going on and the buddy bid up thing, I've got caught in both of these on Ebay buying Ibanez parts. Unless you want a Jem I would stick to "items by me" and email the seller that you'll pick up in person, don't be surprised at how many back out for some reason before you win the auction. Track the item and get in touch after auction closes if it does'nt sell. I love my Ibanez's and fenders but ibanez necks behind the nut @ the nut screws are very weak. Out of my 20 Ebay dealings (parts) only 2 were great deals. 10% Dave_G (Dave_G) Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 6:09 pm:    Koa dude..I have to disagree with you about EBay. Its a great resource to find the hard to find, but like anything else, you have to do you homework. If you know what you want, and know what you want to pay for it, you will never pay more than that. As far as the other stuff (shill bidding etc), you have to be careful-its just like going to the store and finding really high prices on everything-just keep walking by...I always recommend talking to the seller and getting an 'in-hand" description before investing in any purchase on EBay-thats just common sense (as well as checking their feedback etc) But the most important thing is to ASK QUESTIONS and a lot of them before bidding. I have purchased well over 100 guitars on EBAy and have only had one bad experience, and that was FEDEX's fault ! Ericibanez (Ericibanez) Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 8:53 pm:    Great Subject! I also have bought and sold many, many guitars on eBay. After several not so successful purchases I have developed a better buying system, similar to Dave's above. I do my homework first and know my buying top price. I don't go over that amount. I really check out sellers before placing any bids. I will check thier feedback and actually check out the types of items bought or sold in thier feedback profile. A feeling of the person can be gotten from reviewing this data; is he primarily a SELLER (item price ranges/types of items e.g. Fender guitar amps)or a BUYER or BOTH. This gives me a feel for the person in respect to my type of product. I also check out types of payments accepted. I personally have had trouble every single time I did a transaction with an "I only accept money orders" seller. Every time! If I see the M.O. line like above I email the seller and request they take payment via PayPal and I offer to pay the extra 2% PayPal service charge. This option is almost always accepted by honest sellers - never had a problem buying this way! I like PayPal because it is a financial trail and any fraud connected with that transaction can be traced. Wire fraud is a Federal felony (if over 500). So, this helps any ethically challenged individuals keep straight. Dave's got a great point - ask the seller questions and ask for extra pics. Most are happy to help - you are a potential buyer! Communication is the key. I have gotten a lot of really, really nice guitars this way (more often than not). Johns (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 2:54 pm:    One thing I have learned to ask before hand is: "Are there ANY other problems OR blemishes that are not described in the auction description. If so, do you have any pictures?" This helps to clarify what some sellers refer to as "in great condition for it's age" or "the usual problems for a guitar this old." If you are buying a guitar specifically for it's collectibilty, I'd definitely ask: "Is there anything NOT 100% original?" Grover replacement tuners may not be considered "a problem or blemish", and they are hard to tell from old Ibanez tuners in small pictures. This detail might not come to light if you only ask the first question. Ask the questions via email. Print out everything and save the email files. This will give you a paper trail if the description was bogus and you need to prove your case with ebay, later.

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