Epiphone Elite? Fender Squire?

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Author Message Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 7:15 pm:    I recently read reviews on a few of the new Epiphone Elite line of guitars in Guitar Player magazine. These higher priced Epi's are made in Japan. Anyone know if they're made by Ibanez? I wouldn't doubt it - years ago I'd heard that Ibanez made the Squire line for Fender. I mean, wouldn't you hire the highest quality producer of copies to make your own authorized copies? Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 7:31 pm:    Do you mean built in the same factory as Ibanez? The Ibanez company does not build guitars. All production is contracted to various factories in Japan, Korea, and Indonesia (maybe China too?) I do not know the affiliation of the Japanese factories with Hoshino (Ibanez parent corporation). It is possible that Hoshino does in fact own all or part of some of the factories. But even in this case, a company like Epiphone (Gibson) would not go to Ibanez for guitar production. Cheers Steve Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 7:39 am:    I understand. If Ibanez only contracted factories to build guitars, why wouldn't someone else just contract factories to build guitars? Makes sense. So, there's a chance that the copies I saw in the '70s made by Ibanez, Aria, Cortez, and others may have been made in the same factories even thought there are obvious differences in the quality of these guitars? Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 12:46 pm:    Yes, it's quite possible. Keep in mind that the factories will build anything, for anybody, if they can do it at a profit. Let's use an imaginary example: Ibanez is having an LP copy built by Factory A. The folks at Aria decide they want to sell a similar guitar. They go to Factory A with an example of what they want (perhaps an Ibanez in hand). However, the Aria folks are on a tighter budget than the Ibanez folks. In order to cut the cost, and maintain their profit margin, Factory A is going to use cheaper materials on the Aria version. Perhaps even faster, less precise construction techniques if the cost point is really low. *I don't mean to imply that Aria's are cheap knockoffs of Ibanez guitars. I just used those names as examples.* Cheers Steve Johns (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 1:50 pm:    Craig: I'm not sure how much relevance it has for today's musical instrument industry, but Jeff Hasselberger describes the situation of different brands buying from the same manufacturing plants. Check out these message threads in the Jeff's Black Hole section: Did Ibanez EVER produce guitars under other names? Can anyone here help un-confuse me???? Actually, I'd encourage everyone to read all of the messages in this section. Jeff's the most authoritative person there is on Ibanezes in the 70s. Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 2:42 pm:    John, It absolutely applies to today's industry. Samick produces more guitars than any other manufacturer. However, only a small percentage of products go out the door with the Samick name on the headstock. This situation has contributed to the "Korean guitars suck" myth. Lets' use Ibanez as an example. Where are the best Ibanez guitars made? Japan, right? Why? Because the Japanese factories are better? No. Because Ibanez (generally) has their less expensive models built by the Korean (Indonesian, Chinese) factories, for economic reasons. The upper end models almost always have an "F" preceding the serial number. If, for example, you had two AR2000's in hand. One was built in Japan, the other in Korea. Assuming the same specifications were used, and the same costpoint per unit was allowed, you would not be able to tell them apart. You don't get to look at the serial number first. NO CHEATING !! Cheers Steve Johns (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 3:15 pm:    Steve: I understand what you're saying and agree...mostly. Taking your scenario about AR2000s made in Korea/China versus Japan further, if they were capable of making the same product, why wouldn't Ibanez turn over all their manufacturing to the Korea/China plants and then sell AR2000s for less? There must be a little more to the equation. Maybe part of the cheap costs in Korea and China are that they can get cheaper components and woods locally? If they had to get them shipped from outside, it might raise the costs. Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 4:12 pm:    John, Good question! My assuption is that it's purely economics. The point I was trying to make is that I don't believe there is a noticable difference in manufacturing quality between Japan and Korea. Assuming all else is equal, the final product should be the same. Your reference to materials procurement is valid. Who knows what kind of tariff/tax situations exist? Also, the Samick factory is set up for fully automated large production runs. It's a simple fact that the larger the production run, the lower the cost per unit. Perhaps the cost per unit for the lower quantity runs (high end models) is better using the Japan facilities. Cheers Steve

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