Ibanez LP

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Edit Profile

Author Message   Floridanative Username: Floridanative Registered: 02-2007 Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:19 pm:    What do you all think of this guitar? Is it a good copy? Thanks. http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D220080644403   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 6:49 am:    Well, it's not an Ibanez, and I would also think that it is ex Matsumoku rather than Hoshino/Fujigen.   Floridanative Username: Floridanative Registered: 02-2007 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 2:18 pm:    Did Ibanez ever make guitars under a different name? Or all the ones to come out of Fujigen have the Ibanez logo? Thanks.   Fox Username: Fox Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 7:50 pm:    Hmm..on the other hand, the info I have shows that Penco is really a Hoshino Group trademark, and was used in the US market region.. RELATED TRADEMARKS - IBANEZ (Hoshino Co.Japan) Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris for European Market Antoria (and CSL) England Distributor Greco for Japanese Market MANN for Canadian Market Jason, Cimar, Morris, Kasuga, Axiom, Electa for the Australian Market Penco, Elger, Univox, IBZ? for the US Market This does not mean, that some "brands" listed above are built to the very same specs as Ibanez, eg. Cimar-brand guitars are considered as "cheaper" variants...   Snowjays Username: Snowjays Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 8:42 pm:    Fox, that's true, nearly all these brand names sold models from Fujigen under their brand, but most were not directly affiliated with Fujigen. Even Hosino bought models from other factories and branded them as Ibanez. The one listed above looks more like a Matsumoku make judging by the headstock, truss rod cover, and the neck plate. That does not mean it isn't a good copy. If it has maxon pups, that would indicate it has Humbuckers rather than sinle coils.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 9:06 pm:    Floridanative: One important thing to remember is that Ibanez is only a brand name. It's owned by Hoshino (Gakki and USA) companies which distributes guitars around the world. Hoshino doesn't maufacture anything. Hoshino has had a very close relationship with Fujigen Gakki manufacturing company for many decades, but Fuji is a separate entity. At various periods of time, Fujigen has/does make other brands. One we absolutely know is Greco. Fujigen also made Fender Japanese Strats and I believe the Robben Ford models. I'm sure there are plenty more. The Penco guitar does not look like a Fujigen product. Personally, I haven't seen any evidence that the Penco and Ibanez brands are related. Michael Wright in Guitar Stories, Vol. 1, says that Penco (Pennco) was connected with the Philadelphia Music Company. Maybe the close proximity of the two companies in PA is the reason for the often made connection? Fox: You missed the Memphis brand.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 7:31 pm:    The headstock inlay is the same as in my Aria L1000 and the PE-180, we see it also in the Aria Mach-1 http://www.matsumoku.org/models/aria/catalogs/mach 1/aria_mach_i_catalog_pg1.jpg.html So, obviously THIS Penco was made by the same manufacturer as the Aria guitars in 1977 and that was indeed MATSUMOKU. BTW: Shiro Arai was the FIRST Japanese LP copyist in 1969, so I consider old Aria LPs historically just as important as old Ibanez LPs. I wish I had bought one second hand when the vintage collecting feaver wasn't so widespread... I could have had a blond one for 650 guilders. Ginger   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 9:04 pm:    Fox - that list of brands is from Harry & Hasy's site, isn't it? I think a lot of it is erroneous and is in need of updating. Several of the names in that list were guitar makers with their own manufacturing facilities - eg Kasuga, Morris, Maya, and the two UK brands were importers' own labels, and certainly not Hoshino trademarks. Given that the guitar seems to be a Matsumoku rebrand, I think it's probable that Penco was unconnected to anyone other than its US parent company. Jon.   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 8:05 am:    The fact that Kasuga and/or other mentioned names are guitar makers, does NOT mean that there's no connection with Ibanez (Hoshino) at all, because Ibanez/Hoshino had to order there instruments somewhere. In the early days that was NOT Fuji Gen Gakki. There were several candidates. What's typical in the pre-FujuGen days is the use of a ZERO-fret. Using a ZERO-fret enables you to use uniform (a bit too long) fretboards and make the fret position decisions afterwards. So the nut on these oldies has no other function than keeping the spacings between the strings. The factory didn't need a specialist to file the individual nut slots to the exact height. A cheap mass production solution. (That's why Egmond guitars had ZERO-frets) What I see, especially when I look at the Kasuga guitars, is that they used the same hardware, like that Telecaster bridge with the upside-down pickup screws for the Maxon pickup. So there are several links which are mainly due to using the same suppliers. It would be interesting to know the exact connections, but Harry and Hasy never suggested that their site gives that information completely. They, and especially Hasy specialized on pre 1970 Ibanez guitars. That is quite a job already. If you want information about the 60s production, you would have to contact old Japanese employees. So you'd have to be quick, because these guys are all over seventy years old now. There is a chance it might work through English and Japanese speaking ICW members like Hasenobu, but it all takes a lot of time, and I'm sure Hasy needs all his time to make a buck at the moment. But it would be nice if someone with connections in Japan would have a little chat with old employees of all Japanese guitar factories. I find the stories of our old saxophone player Ad always very interesting. He worked for Egmond and Schenkelaars. Employees from this era can say very remarkable things, such as: "This guitar doesn't even have a ZERO-fret, so it's impossible that its a good guitar!" (An opinion feeded by the mass production philosophy of factories like Egmond: they hired a self-employed luthier part-time for quality inspections, but I've spoken the old master quite a few times before he passed away, and he was NOT enthusiastic about Egmond's quality standards). But with guys like Ad I talked about the six-drill press he designed and made for drilling the headstocks, the tailpieces he produced at home at low cost and sold to Egmond and of course the ZERO-fret (nah, discussed... I listened to the monologue, haha...) If we want to preserve this knowledge for the future, we should contact them while they're still alive and LEARN (even when it's outdated knowledge) or at least UNDERSTAND, put things in an historic perspective. Ginger   Hasy Username: Hasy Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 12:34 pm:    Ginger you speak trough my heart, this point brings me alot of sleepless nights. Its so hard to find the right person to ask for it. Even when your not speaking japanese or good english line mine :-) Hasenobu, could you help me ? Yes, we need to update this page on IVP a.s.a.p. There are many brands listed, they not produced by Hoshino. I set this list 3 years ago. Guys: Need your help to update this list. Plz give me feedback, whats wrong and whats right. Thanks. Hasy   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 2:55 pm:    Hasy I trust your instint and epertise on this. Thanks for clearing that up. I just can't figure out why someone would fake an ibanez copy rather then fake the real Mcoy. Wouldn't it fetch more profit? Anyway here are some pics from the ebay sale.   Lespaul Username: Lespaul Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 3:19 pm:    I believe it IS a modded Ibanez. The logo seems removed to me, leaving the routing for the inlay open. I cannot explain the unusual neckstructure or the odd inlay work but I see some appointments I have only seen in Ibanez. Faking a non excisting model makes no sense to me. I will stay away from it FWIW. P@ul   Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 4:32 pm:    Somehow my post ended up in the wrong thread. I guess its old age!   Lespaul Username: Lespaul Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Saturday, February 17, 2007 - 6:30 pm:    My comments were referring to the pics in Ibanezfreak1960's post. Not to the Penco in the first post. Maybe JohnS can move the posts to the proper thread? P@ul   Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 2:07 pm:    Ginger - completely take your point about a pre - Fuji Gen possible connection between Hoshino & the brands I mentioned. However, the misunderstanding arises because people assume that guitars carrying the Kasuga, Maya etc names are really "Ibanez" with different names. Ebay is full of this sort of misleading nonsense as it is! Hasy - the following is based on web-trawling, comparing numerous different guitars & a fair amount of necessary guesswork! Maya was a brand owned by Rokkoman, which had its own factory. As far as I can tell, this factory produced guitars for the UK brands Avon, Columbus & Saxon, too. Morris was (and still is, as far as I'm aware) the house brand of the Moridaira factory. They build good quality acoustics these days, but in the 70s/80s also built copies, under the Morris brand and others, including Hohner and CMI (UK). Kasuga is probably best known for being used by Tokai when their own facilities could not meet demand, and for being contracted by CF Martin for an early attempt at overseas production. They built under their own name, and several others, including Heerby (Japan) and Conrad (US). They also built the Japanese range of BC Rich instruments in the 80s. I'm personally attempting to compile a list of Japanese factories and their associated brands in the copy era - obviously it'll include the various names associated with Fuji Gen, and any names known to be Hoshino off-brands. Jon.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 3:42 pm:    Jon: Great work! Keep me posted on your progress. If you need some help, let me know.   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 2:09 pm:    Bump. Jon, I wanted to know if you ever got around to compiling your list. I'm interested as it relates to "Global" brand copies, since I've seen the brand mentioned as related to Ibanez/Hoshino by Fox. I've seen Global LP copies (I own two at the moment, actually), a Strat copy, and a Gibson Dove acoustic copy. It would be great to be able to clarify exactly which factory was making them in the 1970's, and possibly the distributor (e.g., a Hoshino type company) that was distributing them. I've trawled the web also but can find no good information on the brand. Anything of value I've found has come from ICW posts (and most of those by Fox). -Chuck

Add Your Message Here Post: -Color- Black Red Green Blue Yellow Purple Orange Cyan Gray White -Font- Arial Courier Symbol Times Verdana -Size- Smallest (-2) Small (-1) Normal Large (+1) Largest (+2) Enter Item number: Username: Posting Information: This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here. Password: Options: Enable HTML code in message Automatically activate URLs in message Action: