What Inspired the "Smooth-heel" Neck ...

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Author Message JohnS Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 6:22 pm:    Jeff: Can you give us any info on how the "smooth-heel" for the Artist Series came about? It's one of the most unique and mysterious aspects of this particular line. I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that attempted such a graceful transition from body to neck. We've obsessed about this (in our little vaccuum) and have kinda narrowed the introduction date of this feature to be late '77. The first, and most elegant incarnation, seems to have evolved to the next version by sometime in late '79 (maybe real early '80). This last change coincides with another change where the whole guitar was shortened by setting the neck farther into body. Thus pushing the pups, bridge and tailpiece back. Also, the body thickness was increased. The Artist fans have batted this around for a while. If you want to see some pictures and discussion, take a look at the following message thread: Vintage & Custom Electrics: Entire 1979-80 Artist Series - PICS Thanks, JohnS ICW Jeff Hasselberger (Jhasselberger) Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 12:24 pm:    Smooth Heels Let’s start with some context. In the mid/late ‘70s, we (guitar players, that is) were beginning to discover life above the 17th fret. Fenders had 21 and Gibsons had 22 (must be better, no?). Some of the custom makers were offering 24 frets. Wow, two full octaves of mind-roasting power on just one string! A lot of players -- pro and otherwise -- were exploring the sounds that lived on the high end of the fretboard. Realize that this was something new to all of us. So as we began to play up there we began to notice that there were these bulky neck joints to deal with. Being a single cutaway, the Les Paul had an obvious disadvantage to a double cutaway guitar. This was an opportunity for us, since we constantly evaluated the Artist against the Paul. We figured to beat them in as many aspects as we could think of. One of the things we heard again and again was how much better an Artist played in the upper register. I’m fuzzy on what came first, the 24-fret Artist or the Smooth Heel. We had seen some of the neck-thru 24-fret guitars, like Alembic and could see that they didn’t have a neck joint to deal with. They could shape whatever heel they wanted to and not have structural problems. That got us thinking. Hang on a sec while I visit the closet ... Here we go. My own 24-fret Artist (from about 76) has a nice neck joint (heel flush with the back of the body, but still a distinctive heel). So that’s one 24-fretter that was made before smooth heels. We made a guitar for Jim Messina (in the Loggins and Messina heyday) with offset double cutaways and a smooth heel. Can’t remember exactly what year that was, but I seem to remember that it was in the middle of our playing around with he smooth heel idea. Here’s an aside: I delivered to the guitar to Jim at Mother Lode Ranch (his homestead) out in Ojai, California. They recorded out there (with a remote truck) and it was quite the spread. It was my first time in a real live California hot tub. Jim and his wife were very good hosts and they made me feel far more important than I was. Jim was very meticulous about his gear. He had a black-face Super Reverb that looked absolutely new. I had (still do, in fact) the same black-face Super, but it’s, shall we say, quite “experienced,” not anywhere near the mint condition of Jim’s. All his gear was in the best shape I’d ever seen. He took such good care of his stuff, that it verged on the weird. Anyhow, Jim was looking for some additional sound variations that required a bit of rewiring. This guitar had four pickups -- two humbuckers and two Strat-type single coils -- arranged in what looked like two triple coils. I think I have the wiring diagram somewhere. Michael Wright may get me to cough it up for one of his projects. So we stayed up late one night, trying variations and jamming to hear the results. Jim went off to bed while I finished up. I packed it in and was tired enough to forget to turn off the soldering station. Jim noticed my oversight the next morning and gave me a stern lecture on how I could’ve burned the whole place down. Made me feel pretty low. He was still very congenial and all, but I was always extremely careful around his gear after that. What were we talking about? Heels. I know we experimented with a number of ways to do the heel. We felt that some were still too bulky and others might be structurally unsound. There were certainly some variations from production run to production run. I think there’s a lot of personal taste in the smooth heel question. Some people like it a little more substantial, while others would be happy if the heel were somewhere around the tailpiece. At the time Roy Miyahara and I were here in the States and Fumio “Fritz” Katoh was the point man in Japan. were are all players, and we had our own disagreements about how something should be done. It was all very friendly. Most times, we’d get each of our ideas made and it usually became pretty obvious what the superior one was. We just went on from there. I don’t think I’ve been in such a non-competitive collaboration since. We (Fritz, Roy and myself) were all young at the time and we felt as though we were winging it. We were certainly learning as we went along, and there was a really great team atmosphere of learning together. We spent a lot of time together, did a lot of drinking together and occasionally, some misbehaving together. Notice that I keep getting off the subject of heels. You guys probably know more than I do about the variations that exist. In a situation where you are trying to move your product quality forward, our MO was typically to give it a whirl and see what happened. We never considered anything to be “finished.” This is one of the big reasons why I’ve been unable to get my version of the sequence of events into any kind of reasonable certainty. This is where the collector community comes into play. As I browse the ICW site, I’m often challenged, “ Did we really do that in ‘76? Well, this guy has a catalog that says we did, so I guess he’s right.” Over time, I may begin to piece things together in a way that’s helpful, rather than more confusing. It will take some time.Please be patient. Jörgen A (Jorgen) Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 4:26 pm:    Hello Jeff Its a very interesting story to read, giving some substance and background to the variations in Ibanez design. In this case the neckheel. I wonder about something else... I own a Bob Weir Standard model without the vine inlays. I have noticed that the placement of the strapbutton seems to be different on the same type of guitar. I have seen some BW Standards with the strapbutton on the neckheel, and some that have it placed at the upper horn. The neckheel also seem to be different, with both smooth neckheels and the "Les Paul" style type. My own BW Standard has a smooth neckheel and the strapbutton placed on it. The guitar is made in November of 1977. I wonder if you know why this different placement of the strapbutton occured within the same production model? I have wondered about it personally wether it was structurally unsound to have it on the neckheel, or wether it was shown to be more "unpopular" from a players view and therefore changed? I have come to the conclusion that it cant have been structurally unsound considering that the Gibson SG has had the strapbutton placed on the neckheel for many decades now, and not been changed. And that other brands of guitars use the same placement when manufacturing guitars today. Are my thoughts wrong on this subject and what are your views on this, and the variations of the strapbutton placement described above? Best Regards /Jörgen JohnS Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 10:54 am:    Jeff: Do you remember exactly which model guitar it was that you made for Jim Messina? The Artist and Bob Weir are both double-cutaways that eventually got "smooth-heels". Jako_Notorious (Jako_Notorious) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 3:19 pm:    how many scuggs things were made . any idea...Ive just got one .....serial no. 6766699.....Im clueless can you help..... Johns (Johns) Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 4:44 pm:    Jako: Help with Scruggs production numbers? Join the club. There *may* be some production information in an "Ibanez Anniversary" book that is supposed to be published very soon. We're all wringing our hands waiting for it. BTW, are you sure that the first character in the serial number is a 6? It should be a letter, like G. Hmmm, those 3 sixes in a row don't look too good, either. You didn't magically learn to play the "Devil Went Down to Georgia" after buying it, did you? Sixvsix (Sixvsix) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 9:26 am:    Jeff: I bought my first Ibanez in 1978, a brand new 2619 Artist(Jeez I'm so old). Were there any problems with neck stability on the early smooth-heels. I saw a couple of broken examples in guitar workshops during the 80's. Jorgen: My G76 Weir with vines has the step-heel (Les Paul style)with the strap button on the neckheel. six Craigjc (Craigjc) Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 9:52 pm:    Off the Artist line a bit, I have repaired 2 Rocket Roll Sr. (one 76 and one 77) both which suffered from a bad smooth-heel glue joint. Based on what I've seen, it appears to be a design flaw, part of which is the heel and part of which is the gluing of the wood itself. Fortunately, Elmer's, a syringe, and some weight is all that's neede for a solid repair. unfortunately, it still looks bad unless you do a refinishing job. Paul_A (Paul_A) Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 3:04 pm:    The 4 pickup Burns Bison which appeared in 1961 had the smooth heel as did the earlier Burns Artist and Sonic models. Ibanez were certainly aware of Burns as they made a number of 'Bison' inspired solids in the mid 60s. Jako_Notorious (Jako_Notorious) Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:45 pm:    thanks....you are right it is a g....but the three sixes remain.....spooky!!!!never thought of the conitations.....my house number is 13.........ooooohhhhhhhhhhhoo send for scooby doo..... any information on the old scuggs will be much appriciated.....theres a photo of it on the main site.. posted by paddy....ta

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