Tele 2384?

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Author Message   Lizardking Username: Lizardking Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 1:18 pm:    My tele is 1976, has an f hole, is natural, and has two humbucker looking pickups with three poles and three poles staggered. The tone knob only works on the selector middle position. The neck pickup has 20% volume max. Strangest of all it has a matching solid brown pickguard and truss rod cover. The catalog photos of the 2384 look right, but it only has one vol and one tone knob and mine has two vol and two tone. I beleive it is the 2352 that has four knobs. Everything looks original. This doesn't make sense.   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:26 pm:    Lizard: you must have bought outbid me on that tele. Yes...it's a weird one. We came to the conclusion that someone modded a 2384 by adding an extra tone & volume pot. I can only assume it's mis-wired. What really intrigued me was the 1976 date...one of the last 2384's built. I hope it works out for you. mk   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 10:40 pm:    You mean this one? Ebay Item #260108755783 That's a mid 70s Telecaster Deluxe (not Custom) copy but with a tele neck (the real ones had a strat neck). The potmeter configuration was always like that. I have a Kasuga that has one of these humbuckers in the neck and a single coil in the bridge, like the 1972 Telecaster Custom. The originals are on page 39 of The Fender Book by Tony Bacon and Paul Day (First Ed. 1992). Ginger   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 8:36 am:    No, it was this one: Ebay Item #120108082091 mk   Harry Username: Harry Registered: 3-2001 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 9:09 am:    Hi Michael Please post some pictures of the body routings with the pickguard removed. I think itīs possible to see if any additional routings have been made in order to get the space for the (extra?) electronics. A picture of the electronics would be nice too, in order to see if itīs original or possible aftermarket work. If it turns out to be original, you have a really rare bird here. Kind greetz, Harry   Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 12:25 pm:    Lizard: Harry's message was really for you as you out-sniped me... mk   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 6:17 pm:    Wow, a 70s thinline. I'm curious about the measurements of these Maxon "Fender" humbucker imitations, because I measured pretty high values in mine. I have one Maxon in my Kasuga Custom Tele and one in my Sakai Thinline Tele. In my Kasuga the resistance of the neck pickup was so high that it was impossible to get a good balance after replacing the single coil. So I put some MIJ PAF model humbucker in. A few years ago, I tried to find out what was wrong with the coils, but I might have ruined the thing when I opened it. But I'm satisfied about the sound of the new combination of pickups. BTW, I expect the combination of TWO of these humbuckers to be good (if the coils are intact). In both, the Kasuga and the Sakai, the original bridges were vintage telecaster bridges with the triangle of adjustment screws upside-down. This means that if you want to replace the single coil bridge pickup, you either need a new bridge or you have to drill new holes in the old one. I got one good original bridge with my Sakai from the original owner, who had replaced the parts by original Fender parts. In the Kasuga there was a bad Squier or Vester bridge pickup (no copper plate). They had drilled too big holes through the plastic and attached it with rusty nuts and bolts. So I really needed to replace that one. There were already some new holes, but not precisely in place. So our old sax player (the one who made/designed hardware and tools like a six headed drill for Egmond) helped me to correct them a bit. On the two Ibanez guitars above they used hardtail strat bridges and two humbuckers. That's quite an advantage compared to the upside-down MIJ tele bridges. Ginger   Lizardking Username: Lizardking Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 1:16 pm:    Hello folks, Thanks you to all those who have contributed. I have the guitar at Seal Beach Music and Eddie Montana for repair and setup. One of the pickups was bad and we have sent it to Soetz music in Orange to have a rewind (trying to keep original). Harry, The pictures, including the wiring, will follow. Michael, sorry about the last second bid. Ginger, when you said "pretty high", do you recall the actual reading. I am using ohm meter on every Ibanez I got(9) and comparing. I'm trying to identify pickups by their output. Is this possible to do or is there too much variance between them? bob   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 6:54 pm:    There is ALWAYS some deviation. And there is a value we can't measure with our cheap multimeters: the inductance in Henry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_(inductance) So it's a combination of the resistance in kOhms and the inductance in Henry. Ginger   Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 8:14 pm:    Hm, is pickup a RL circuit? If it is its impedance in ohms is measurable. I guess I should not put my spoon in this soup at 3 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RL_circuit Juha   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:47 am:    Lizardking, What was "pretty high"? I believe 125 kOhm in the Sakai thinline Tele and about 575 kOhm in the Kasuga Custom Tele. With a bridge pickup of 3-5.5 kOhm it is very difficult to balance your sound, because the 4 potmeters are not working independently from each other in the middle position (same idea as on an ES-335). Juha, You're right. I'm hearing the birds already... Ginger   Lizardking Username: Lizardking Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 10:05 pm:    I have the tele back and have played it almost continuous for the last 24 hours. The natural wood look and the feel of the neck could not be better. Lots of different tunings (Open D, Dminor 7th, E, G, and through several amps. I have a Super Reverb Amp and have TRIED to make different humbuckers sound sweet on this amp to NO avail (Super 70s, Super 80s, Super 58s). The ones on this tele are awesome match for the Super Reverb. The second shocking report is that mixing the pickups, using the middle position on selector switch, was strong, full, warm, but still articulate. I rarely like the combo. I've been getting a little strange lately, stranger anyway, but I have developed a real taste for playing electrics ('78 Ibanez 2630) at home through amps made for acoustic guitars (Marshall AS50, Fender Acoustisonic Jr...)(very warm, with a real clarity). The tele sounds fabulous thru these amps. I particularly loved the slide tones. I have had an Ibanez tele for several years with the standard (2) single pole layout. I loved the yellowed coloring finish (blonde), but the tone never floated my boat. Seemed REAL weak beside any other Ibanez's. This is an entirely different tele. The materials selected, the build quality, the larger shaped neck, the playability, bridge construction, fret work, I could keep going, but suffice to say this is a first class Ibanez instrument. The wiring on the tele is shown in the attached photos. My luthier tells me it was wrong and has corrected after reinserting the rewound pickup. Any guesses on what the wiring in the photo was trying to do. Does anyone recognize those pieces hanging off the pots? Bob http://sealbeachmusic.com/ebaypics/ibeneztele.jpg   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 10:01 am:    Your luthier is right. The soldering has not been properly done. Especially the upper right pot doesn't look good. The first terminal should be connected to the housing of the pot, not to the second terminal. I can't see what happened to the pots on the left. The stripped wires from pot to pot are just grounding wires and one grounding wire goes to the bridge. That seems to be in order. Ginger   Lizardking Username: Lizardking Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:26 am:    Second Report I used an Volt/Ohm meter and got readings I don't understand. Each pickup registered just over 20. With the selector switch in the middle, it measured 10.03. I'm used to seeing single pole register 5.?? or 6.?? and a humbucker reading 7 or 8. Does this also mean that each side of the humbucker is treated as an independent single pole type pickup with a resistance of around 10 kOhms each. Does anyone recognize the pickups? Ginger mentioned a "Maxon" earlier. Did Ibanez produce these or outsource?   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 3:12 am:    They look like the Maxon from my Kasuga '72 Custom Tele NT, but the botom plate of mine has smaller ears for ONE screw on each side. And the number stamp says 13.25 and it's engraved Maxon and PAT. PEND. The pole pieces are FLAT, NOT convex. Maxon supplied electronics for almost every Japanese guitar company. So: outsource. It is normal that the measurement of the resistance of two humbuckers (middle position) is (N+B):4 so if you would measure N(eck) = 7.5 and B(ridge) = 8.5 the measurement in the middle position would be 16:4 = 4 kOhm. But Maxons have often other values than a normal Gibson PAF. 20 K is very nice, wish I had those values on mine. Mine measured 525 K and higher (instable) I kicked it out. Perhaps it needs rewinding, but I find that too expensive. I use a Gibson type humbucker instead of a Fender type humbucker now. Sounds great. Much better balance with the modern bridge tele single coil. Ginger   Lizardking Username: Lizardking Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:42 pm:    The top of the pole pieces are "flat". I'm guessing that means a Maxon. I have the Ibanez "The Untold Story" book and on page 72 it says "Except for the few guitars that had specialty pickups, all humbucker pickups were now Super 70s." Does that mean these were specialty pickups, or does it mean the book is wrong. Also, The pickup rewinding averages about $45. I thought it would be a couple of hundred. I could not be more pleased with the outcome! Soetz Guitar in Orange, CA. Is this the Japanese Sen wood. I read that it was used to approximate the Korina wood for the Ibanez V, Moderne, and Explorers. I have a Korina strat and it is very similar. All in All, what is your best guess for the model number?   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:01 pm:    No, there's something not right with the controls configuration. What I see here is a mix of the Deluxe Tele '72 and the Thinline Tele '72 Normally you would have EITHER 2 pots and the selector through a slot near the pots, OR 4 pots and a toggle selector switch on the upper shoulder of the guitar. On a thinline the pickguard is normally WHITE MOP. So it's a mix of the 2352DX and the 2384. I think it's a copy of the 2384 pickguard but made of cheaper (non-MOP) material probably an old 2352DX pickguard. They removed the part with the toggle selector switch hole and added a slot for the Fender shape selector. They added 2 extra pots, but didn't know how and forgot the capacitors, added resistors. Cause of all this could be a broken MOP pickguard. That's my theory. The electronics are a mess. They should look like this: http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/72TELE DLX/SD0137702APg2.pdf which obviously isn't the case... Ginger   Chipsotoole Username: Chipsotoole Registered: 2-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2007 - 4:38 am:    I pulled out a pair of Maxon "sheep in wolves clothing" from my '71 1912 330 copy. They'd basically put single coils inside a humbucker shell...A couple of ink stamped super 70's sorted out the problem.

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