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Author Message Captainibanez Username: Captainibanez Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 5:59 am:    Hey Gang...unlike Mr Shanley who didn't know to turn right out of Bali with Qantas Airlines to get on the booze and chat in person with ya O'l Cappy... I must say how sorry I am for not being around lately, Its that time of the year again for the bussiest time in the music industry down under and have been on the road...yet again...Still we have a new Sales Rep to fill the Cappy's shoes on the road for Ibanez and Tama and everything else...tough job I might add...not for the faint hearted!. Still I'm back and I must admit I very keen to let the "all hell break loose" syndrome unleash here on ICW . To be truthfull this forum can get a bit like a church meeting lately....so I dare ya step up...don't expect Mr Roadster or JD to carry the load...I'm back and ready to put the ICW Heavyweight Championchip Belt on the line.....lets get ready to rumble! Captain Ibanez "What ya gonna do when Captain Ibanez rumbles through you ? Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 10:05 am:    Quantas? Oh yeah, the official airline of Rainman. Hey, if Continental flew to Sydney, I would have been there. What's wrong with Sydney that one of the largest airlines in the US won't go there? I don't know...but there must be something! Maybe too many rowdy passengers trying to bring there barbies and kangaroos on the plane? And on top of that, it looks like you gave my dream job away to someone else! Anyway, now that you're back in the saddle, how about commenting on the Artwood Twin that IbanezCollector just bought. The control layout is very different than we've seen before and the neck thru construction is totaly off the meter. It was purported to be a "late 70s" model. But with no serial number it's hard to say for sure. Someone mentioned that they may have made some Twins as reissues. Ever heard that rumor? Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 7:17 pm:    Alright capt'n, I'll start you off with an easy one... I was at a guitar show this past weekend and came across a very interesting SA. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me THAT day so I don't have a picture. It looked a lot like an SA160QMTG. It had an HSS pup setup and a dot neck. The main difference between it and the 160 is that the guitar I saw had abalone purfling around the body. I've been to the Ibanez site and can't seem to find it. Do you have any idea what model this could have been? js Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 7:54 pm:    Jeff: Would this be the guitar you are talking about? Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:15 pm:    John, that looks like the SA220 that I spotted back in August and posted pics of. http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/14/7299.html There were 2 at Guitar Center, and I had my mini pocket cam on hand. They had 2005 serial numbers, and I haven't seen one since. -Sven Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 8:41 pm:    johns, That's it! I can't believe you got a picture of it. I thought it was HSS, but I guess I was wrong. That one did have a W5...serial. Funkie, Thanks for the heads up. $449 at GC, I knew $550 sounded a bit steep. The guitar is very nice for a middle-of-the-road offering. I love those smaller S bodies. I just wish it had a hardtail bridge and better inlays on the neck. I'll have to keep my eyes open. Thanks guys, js Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 12:03 am:    No need to apologize Cap'n! I am now working for Portland Music Company in Beaverton Oregon and I can most definitely testify to this being a very busy time of year! And yes, we are an authorized Ibanez dealer Steve Captainibanez Username: Captainibanez Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 5:28 am:    Thank you Lt Commander Roadstar for the understanding and mutual moral support. John, that twin neck is a knock off.The is a extra pot and knob where the input jack should be.Does anyone have any more pics of this guitar ? I don't think its a "real Mcoy" can't see the headstock clearly and no serial numbers....hmmm make me thinks the word..suspect item ! Don't forget, I have already posted the build quantities of the Artwood twins previously, so check it out. Jeff, a spot production model to test the water for next years range...not sure of market distribution area yet...nice guitar, but if you want a hardtail why not look at the SZ720 model. Captain Ibanez ;) Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 7:40 am:    If that guitar is a knock off I am shocked. No offense Captain but I think JD may have a little more insight on this here model. I'm suspecting reissue prototype. Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 8:53 am:    Thanks for the heads-up Captain. I do have a sz520 and its a pretty nice guitar. I just really like the smaller scale of the S body over the relatively bulky SZ body. js Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 11:44 am:    Jeff, I agree on the advantages of the sabre body. I love the feel and the tone, especially of the lighter weight ones. The body of the 430S that I'm restoring weighs in at 2 1/2 pounds!!! I really love the tonal qualities of very light weight wood. The traditional style bridge on the SA would be quite easy to block or lock down. The bridge is very good - it's saddles lock down onto the bridge plate - a key ingredient to good tone. Have you tried an SV470 or a 470S? They have the GII/QCII combo. I had a 470S for a while and it was a great guitar, and less expensive than a new SA model. It has a 24 3/4" scale vs. the typical 25 1/2". -Sven Funkle Username: Funkle Registered: 12-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 1:54 pm:    Correction: I meant SF470, not SV470. The SV470 has a non-locking trem, while the SF470 has a fixed GII/QCII combo. -Sven Spiro Username: Spiro Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 4:09 pm:    My thoughts on the artwood twin seem like it is suspect as well. My thoughts? I think it has been repaired.. The extra knob is where the input jack should be.. The block logo shows it to be after 1978 which meant that serial numbers were used.. The input jack has probably been moved to the base of the guitar.. The tuners should be peraloid tulip type and the knobs sure grips.. I think what has happend to this guitar is that it was dropped! One or both of the necks snapped.. A luthier got hold of it and made 2 new necks and then decided to make them neck through for the owner (that is if he wasnt the owner originally) Used the fret borads of the necks and then refinished the whole guitar! The cost of a job like this to a luthier is minimal probably about $200 - $300 to do the work.. But if you were going to hime to do it would cost close to the $800 mark to do.. I enquired about getting PS10 made to factory specs by a luthier here in Australia and he said it would cost me about $1500 AUD ! But I would have to supply the parts. He told me no one would know the difference.. soo parts were available as spares and would of cost me about $300 AUD so for $1800 I would have a $3000 guitar that was not manufactured any more.. Same goes with making a Bob Weir or somethng similar.. I have all the parts and the wood would cost me about $400 AUD and the rest would be labour! Everyone heard of Gibson and Fender Fakes? Here come the Ibanez ones.. Jems were the first to be faked now here come some of the earlier ones.. I looked into making the applique for the 2675 and spent a few hours getting the inlay artwork right. It would have cost me about $25 Aud to get it laser cut including an Ibanez logo and inlay. How hard would it be to make the neck ? not hard at all! Just my 2 cents Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 7:15 pm:    I have a 77 that has a block logo, speed knobs, flying finger pups and gold tuners. All like the guitar in question. I agree that it SHOULD have a serial number, but I would be less apt to jump to the conclusion that its a fake just because of some anomalies between this and a "normal" artwood twin. As far as it being repaired, that was my first thought when I saw the serial number was gone. I inspected both headstocks closely. Neither showed any sign of past repair. Here's what I think for what its worth. The extra knob was added as a blending knob or master tone. Notice the tri-sound switch for the 6 string bridge pup has been replaced by a small rotary pot. Its also possible that the extra knob in the control cavity is tied to that. Why is it located where the input jack was? Well that's where I would have put it if I had to add something to the control cavity. Its pretty tight in there and the logical thing would be to move the input jack to the side of the body and re-use the existing hole for the new knob. And quite frankly, the input jack is better off on the side of the body. Just because we haven't seen it before doesn't necessarily make it a fake. I can't imaging that the first time a 2672 surfaced anyone thought it a fake. As fun as speculation is, I think we should wait to hear from Jim or Jeff before we start putting labels on the guitar. js Proline Username: Proline Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:35 pm:    Why should it be a fake?? Nothing suspicious about that guitar. Im trying to find the Artwood Twin in the Greco lineup. But itīs hard to Google withot a name... Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 3:04 pm:    Did Greco use the same model numbers? Spiro Username: Spiro Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 5:33 pm:    I never said it was a fake but there is the possibility that it is not original!.. Fakes are a reality and all I said that it wouldnt be that hard to make one.. If you have the know how it would be quite easy to make one.. How easy would it be to make an ar5000? Get yourself a period artist and strip it and put the relevant appointments on it and there you go! Refinish in a hand rubbed lacquer (which is Nitro actually) and you wouldnt be able to tell the difference.. I am just stating the obvious.. If you had a Bob with the dot inlays you could turn it into a professional without too much hard work.. The Gibson and fender guys are having real trouble with this at the moment(and have had in the past 20 years) All i am saying it is better to be a little skeptical than to fork out $4000 for a fake. Lets take for instance the guitar above.. If it is a production model be it prototype or what. If the input jack was moved and a new switch added and it were a Gibson Les paul it would devalue it ! right? (even though I dont agree with it). Sooo.. What is everyones thoughts? Proline Username: Proline Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 6:35 pm:    Ibanezfreak1960. No they did not use the same model numbers. They didnt usually have the exact same guitars at all. But the body shape and design was reused at FujiGen between Ibanez and Greco. The Ibanez Custom Artist 2700 with a vine would for instance be a Greco GO III 1500. Spiro. I dinīt say you said it was a fake. I was just wondering what made you think it was one. I actually think it would be much easier to build the guitar from scratch than convert it from set neck to neck through design keeping the original attributes. Thatīs what makes me think the necks are original. Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 8:41 pm:    Lets look at the other side of the coin. Lets assume that it came out of the factory that way. Perhaps it was a special build for an artist that had a deal with Ibanez to play their guitars. That said artist played an artwood and had a few suggestions: "It would be cool if this were a neck-through. And is it possible to replace the tri-sound with a blending pot, and lets add a master tone pot. And move that damn input to the side of the guitar where it belongs" If this were being made specifically for an artist, why would Ibanez stamp it with a serial number? Wouldn't they simply build it and send it on its way? Spiro, I know that both of us are engaging in mere speculation. If your speculation is true, then the result devalues the guitar. If my speculation is true, then doesn't that enhance it? I think the real question is why would someone copy an artwood twin? Contrary to the popular belief of this particular website, the artie is not a universally desirable guitar. To most other vintage guitar collectors, anything with the Ibanez name is nothing more than a curiosity. I am by nature a skeptic, so I certainly understand your position. And the posibility that this were the result of rebuilding a damaged guitar is certainly not out of the question. But up until a few years ago, you probably could have replaced a damaged twin for less than it would have cost to have one built. If this had a serial number, would we be having this conversation? And why would someone copy the twin down to the last detail and not put the original serial number back on the headstock? Not doing that just seems to be a bit inconsistent with how well he copied the rest of the guitar. Keep in mind that I held that guitar in my hand. Once Johns pointed out the build variations to me, I looked it over pretty closely. If that's a copy, then the guy that built it did a great job. Every inlay was perfect. The logo was perfect. The binding was perfect. There was nothing that made me believe it were not the real McCoy. Spiro Username: Spiro Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 6:27 pm:    I found the SA in question or one very similar has a set in neck and is available in 4 finishes Captainibanez Username: Captainibanez Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 5:06 am:    Good boy Mr Spiro...you did well. Stay tuned cause this weekend, I will be starting a thread on how to decipher all the Ibanez serial numbers from 1975 to 2005 which will include country of origin and how these numbers translate and what dates production started in what country etc. Captain Ibanez Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 7:26 am:    Sounds like fun Cappy! Jeffsailor Username: Jeffsailor Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 - 10:43 pm:    Sprio, Thanks. I did see that guitar on the Ibanez site. That guitar is a set neck and a bit higher up on the food chain than the one I was looking at. It has a flame body rather than the quilted maple on the guitar I was looking at it. As luck would have it, one showed up on eBay about a week ago. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33043&item=3765552808 I just got it. Other than the guy shipping it in an unpacked case (yes that's right. He stuck the guitar in the case and slapped a UPS label on it. The case was taped so it would not open up!), the guitar is OK. Its a real nice middle of the road guitar. I would love to get my hands on one of those set neck neck SAs. If anyone is interested, here's another SA220 in red... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3767602448 Rakumaniac Username: Rakumaniac Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 12:49 am:    I got one today image{sa220} Rakumaniac Username: Rakumaniac Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 12:51 am:    Sorry here it is Phibanez Username: Phibanez Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 12:05 am:    OK, i am confused. I just opened my 2005 Catologue and this isnt in the Australian one. The SA220 is but not with abolone binding. I think they look great with it but not available downunder that i can see. Was this a one off 2004 thing. Livingthrudying Username: Livingthrudying Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 2:20 pm:    these were limited edition models only available thru guitar center. I have a red one, and i was actually hoping to find if it s worth something or not. they were 449.00 new at GC Daveh Username: Daveh Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 7:13 am:    Well, Cap, now that you're back, maybe you will look into my latest post on the ser# thread? :^} a couple new pics. I'm still wondering about my axe.

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