| Author |
Message |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 6:15 pm: | |
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm really disappointed that Ibanez is not producing more product from Japan.
Not a slam on Korean builders, but let's face it, Japan built Ibanez gits. kick serious booty. What's up with no more AR3000 Prestige models? Why are there so many el cheapo models being produced?
Why push for a new NAMM introduced 'Prestige' model when it's only available for a year??
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM04/Content/Ibanez/PR/AR200-AR300-AR3000.htm l
OK, I'll stop ranting now.  |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 8:57 pm: | |
Let's face facts, we don't know if we will ever see a guitar that of the same quality and ingenuity as guitars like the professionals (weir and Scruggs) and the artist 3000 and 5000, these guitars that we cherish represent something so special that new models will never measure up to any of us. The prestige is about as close as you could get, I have two japanese prestige guitars sc1620vv and a sc620amp, both are top notch, but the sz's are total crap when compared to the sc's. I agree, they are going down hill. Let's see vines on something besides a Vai guitar huh??? |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 12:40 am: | |
How 'bout we stop calling OPINIONS facts? If you're so unhappy with what Ibanez is offering, DON'T BUY 'EM! Stick to your beloved Japanese built models and shut up.
"El Cheapo" models are what pay the bills. There is very little market for Japanese built guitars because they cannot compete in price.
Steve |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 7:09 am: | |
i agree with Steve, this is what made Ibanez successful to begin with. Cheap prices. I have A prestige artist and have played and own sz and to say they are total crap compared is CRAP! |
Craigjc
Username: Craigjc
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 8:08 am: | |
I bought my first non-MIJ Ibanez, brand new Made In China - and although I had many reservations about newer models, it's a very good guitar. Stop reading labels. A good guitar is a good guitar. It's still an Ibanez.
By the way, it blew the doors off of similar Epiphones, Washburns, etc. and cost less. I did a head-to-head comparison of many similar models and brands, and brought a friend for the trip. After trying a few guitars, I pulled an Ibanez off the wall and handed it to him. He immediately said, "This is a nice guitar. You can just feel and hear the quality". Repeated the test at a different store that had the same model Ibanez, but other brands to compare it to. Same results. I agreed. I bought. I do not regret. |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 10:06 am: | |
Thanks for the replies. We all have strong opinions about Ibanez products...because they are a great value. However, at a slightly higher price point, Ibanez could still compete with the 'big boys' if they improved their marketing strategy. For instance, why didn't they give all higher priced (MIJ)Prestige models better availability in the U.S.? Buyers had to often special order, sight unseen. Even with the emergence of internet sales, very few high end Ibanez models were in stock. Back in 1998 the local Ibanez market/sales rep. here in No. Calif. made sure he had the first available West Coast AR2000, but they were never found in a retail store! Did anyone see an AR3000VV or JSM1000 hanging on a wall at your local music retailer?
MIJ Prestige models (in my personal opinion) are as good if not better than the competion. As a consumer I'd like to have the option of purchasing from such a builder.
I made it clear that my comments were not a slam on Korean made Ibanez. Yes my preference is the MIJ models. Yes, I've played the newer, less expensive models from China and Korea, and they are probably the best 'bang for buck' instruments available. But some customers want to see the best that Ibanez ever produced continue.
Of course this is only a forum, so I guess its OK to be told to "Shut Up", but that really defeats the purpose of openly discussing the guitars we love, doesn't it? |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 2:12 pm: | |
Great point Tim!!!
Why have a forum if you don't plan to hear all points of view. Opinions are just that, and everyone's preference is different. I think that the sz's are horrible attempts to mass produce the sc1620 and sc620amp models with thicker (and lighter) bodies, and less attention to fit and finish. The sz's did not come close to sustaining as long as my sc's. Let's all just disagree amicably if we don't like someone's opinion, OK? Besides, it is only a guitar's place of origin, it is nothing to be angry or rude about. I play a japanese Strat for goodness sakes!!!! So if you don't like my posts SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!(just kidding, hahahahahaha) |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:55 am: | |
Express your opinion all you want. Just don't include me or anybody else in it by using the word "WE". I find THAT offensive and rude. I'll reserve the right make up my own mind, thank-you-very-much.
I don't understand why you insist on comparing the SZ and SC models. They are apples and oranges. Ibanez has always offered a wide variety of models at a wide range of prices. The SC and SZ are in two different price markets.
Unfortunately, we all have to compete with "Guitar Mart" and their "force the little guy out of business" pricing. The overhead involved in having one of every model on the floor is staggering. High end models don't move fast enough to justify keeping them on the sales floor.
I probably have 25-30 Stratocasters on the floor at any given moment. Most are under $500. 2-3 will be high-end American Deluxe models. Most of my Ibanez inventory is Artcore series. Why? That's what sells the fastest. It's just the cost of doing business in a Wal-Mart society. People want cheap, they get cheap.
Steve
PS. I can't keep the SZ models on the floor. The sell FAST. The last SC we had took 6 months to move. |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:49 am: | |
YOU have the right to not like my opinion.
How many guitar buyers are informed about what they buy, especially in the low-end market?? Competition is competition, but you know that you will rarely find unique instruments in a superstore. Boutique shops if marketed correctly do prosper, and I see plenty of evidence of that. There are just too many shops with low to middle of the road inventory, pretty much the same things you can get five miles down the road in the next half rate shop. But buyers like me who only buy top end stuff want that and only that.
I won't go into the "Guitar Centers" or "Sam Ash" stores, I hate them. A bunch of horrible players with unlimited access to equipment that they have no business touching. So I am with you on that, but the market for beginner to intermediate is fully saturated, and when you add the cheap bulk prices that the superstores sell for, the sales go down for all except those that carry only high end stuff, or have a great reputation as the Mom-and-Pop store. And for those that know how to market and have the capital to withstand a month with low sales, it is not a problem to compete with the big boys.
Capitalism rules, compete, or be obsolete!!
No hard feelings, Mr. Roadster, I have a 1980 bass named after you!!!!! |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 3:10 pm: | |
Guys:
I've brought this thread to the attention of Hoshino USA. I can't promise that they'll respond, but at least they can see what some Customers' perceptions are.
Steve's done a good job of letting us know the challenges faced by music shop owners. But what would you guys suggest for getting higher end models if you don't put the burden on the shop owner? For instance: Would you order a J-Custom or Prestige model sight unseen from an intenet site? |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 4:15 pm: | |
Hi John, thanks for passing along our comments!
Since 1998 I've ordered 2 Prestige models sight unseen, one from Guitar Center who never even heard of an AR2000, and the other, an internet dealer recently who also has EBay sales. Also ordered a new GB10NT back in '97 through a local shop since there were NONE in any stores. I am Extremely happy with all of these high end MIJ purchases. Had it not been for Ibanez' reputation for building top quality (MIJ) instruments in the late 70's and 80's I would never have taken that risk.
Forunately these days most internet sites provide pretty good photos, so technically they're not 'sight unseen'. But actually playing a new guitar in a shop is always best. I feel for the guitar retailers who are subject to all kinds of market and consumer pressures, but as a potential buyer, I'd like to touch and hear the good stuff first.
By the way, if Ibanez is putting most of it's production in Korean and Chinese luthiers hands, what are those fine Japanese craftsmen doing these days? GB's, Scofields, and Metheney's only? |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 4:27 pm: | |
I've never worked in a music store, but I do have some observations. When you walk into any well stocked music store, GC in particular, you have very few choices. It's really your pocket book that determines which wall you will look at. So it's almost like the public is being spoon fed which brands they should be looking at based on price point. If you want to spend $400, go to the Ibanez wall, if you want to spend $600 go to the fender wall. $800 go to Gibson. $2000, go over to the holy PRS wall. The mega stores are such a powerful force that they have successfully compartmentalized the market in such a way that you really don't have much of a choice, and all the stereotypes are ultimately reinforced, worsening the situation . And unfortunately I have yet to find a independent store in my area that has more than 2 or 3 Ibanez guitars (aside from Haight Ashbury Music)- you can thank GC for that.
I believe that if there were a way to represent Ibanez product to the public, as a legitimate alternative, then some people would buy it. Perhaps just having some options on the floor would be enough. $300-400 guitars are obviously their bread and butter, but SOMEBODY is buying those PRSes and Gibson USA LPs, otherwise GC wouldn't stock them.
I'm not sure how much, if any leverage Hoshino has with Guitar Center, but if there was a way to get some of the other models on the floor, it could make a big difference. And I really think it would help their street cred., in the same way that many car companies make most of their money off the cheap cars, and the high end models help to sell the low end models just by helping to build a positive perception of the brand.
The counterpoint to my argument would be that maybe Hoshino is happy and profitable selling low-mid level guitars that really are better than the competition, and they have no reason to shoot for the high end, because they are already quite successfully "competing with the big boys". Maybe they are content to offer a small trickle of Prestige and signature models, as a matter of pride, not profit.
-Sven |
Acetan
Username: Acetan
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 6:45 pm: | |
I think as collectors of fine Ibanez guitars, "WE" all feel sad to see the direction that Hoshino is taking. As a music store owner though, a different viewpoint is very understandable. But since this is an "Ibanez COLLECTORS Forum", not a "guitar merchants forum", I think expressing the collectors' sentiment as "we" is quite proper.
Ace |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 1:34 am: | |
I'm sorry if I don't fit into your model of "we". I collect CHEAP guitars! I often disagree with the "collectors sentiment" and I like the fact that Ibanez is still offering great player guitars at affordable prices. I don't much care where they are made.
As for shops that specialize in high end gear, their aren't any left out here. The last vintage dealer closed his doors 2 years ago. The few stores that have survived since Guitar Center came to town have fairly wide product offerings. NOBODY can specialize in guitars and survive.
FWIW, I have about 25-30 Ibanez guitars in the store. That includes acoustics and basses. Three of them are Japanese. All three have been in the store over a year.
Steve |
Acetan
Username: Acetan
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 1:59 am: | |
I feel for the tough future specialty stores face in this world of Wal-marts. My other hobby is not quite politically correct: I collect fine firearms. The same is happening there also. The nice Colts and Walthers are being replaced by plastic and metal stampings sold in mega-stores. The new ones do function, but I miss the old world workmanship. I guess I belong to the "soon to die off" generation.
Ace |
Craigjc
Username: Craigjc
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:20 am: | |
Can I agree with everyone?
I think that a high end MIJ Ibanez blows away a PRS. It should have a place in the market and should be givin its proper respect. I would be sad to see these vanish from production.
I also feel that the $300 I just spent on a China Ibanez was the best deal in the store. The quality is on par with my 1977 Ibanez 2350. As long as Ibanez continues supplying quality instruments, I will no longer scrutinize where they're made. This is the first Ibanez I've bought that was not made in Japan because I was afraid of buying an Ibanez of inferior quality. I no longer have that fear.
It is apparent to me that the folks at Ibanez know what they're doing. |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 12:23 pm: | |
See, "We" can all get along in the end!!!!!
BTW, here is why I compare the SC and the SZ, as the former was obviously the inspiration for the latter. I will say however the prestige sz does not look like a bad guitar at all!
 |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 12:25 pm: | |
Check it out
 |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 12:57 pm: | |
Cmangeot,
I would probably say that the original s series, or sabre was the starting point, and the SC, SZ and SA are all variants, combining contoured sabre top with greater body mass and traditional features. They all share the same silhouette, and have similar tops, but the SA and SZ have flatter AR style backs. The SC has a contoured back, like a sabre, but it is thicker and more massive.
I don't think you were off in comparing the SZ and SC. They are quite similar in many ways. And I definitely prefer my SC over an SZ. I've come close to pulling the trigger on an SZ about 3 times now, but I just can't do it! honestly, I really don't like the way the guitar looks. I wonder why the SZ has seen so much popularity, while the SC never sold well. Well I guess it's good for the SC fans!
-Sven |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 2:23 pm: | |
have you guys played the 2005 SZ's with the duncan/ibz pups? Quite a difference fronm the 2003/04 AH pups. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 5:40 pm: | |
How so? |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:36 pm: | |
well the older model has the plain AH pups they rae very dull sounding in my opinion although on the jetking they are wired different and you can get more tones with the coil tap. But on the sz's they just don't work for me. The new ones have a hotter tone. |
Captainibanez
Username: Captainibanez
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 7:56 am: | |
Ok I totally agree with Lt Roadster on this issue as far as the retail side of this thread goes...Steve, thank you for your full frontal assault...I commend your responces an a job well done. 
Still, please punters lets get one thing perfectly clear here..when you guys decided to compare a SC620 to a SZ520...its chalk and cheese here kids.
For one , we have 2 different body styles.
2: we have different pickups
3:Different bridges
Look, if you want to know whats being built in Japan, then just ask ya O'l Cappy.
I'm not going into detail tonight cause I am stuffed after 8 days work straight, but if you wish I will post here 2morrow the list of 2005 built Japanese product, but by the same token, you guys need to have a real serious look at the S2075FWHS,SZ2020FMTKF & SA2020FMVV in your local Ibanez store before you start to complain.Theese guitarre from a new factory in Korea who are of the same old school building beliefs of the masters at Fujigen...its all about quality...not quantity, this is something that Yoshi Hoshino and I discussed earlier this year in great detail and we both are very happy with this philosphy as to there building techniques.
As far as the Duncan pickups go on the 05 SZ's, I saw last week in a thread that someone called the pickups Duncan Designed...sorry dude, these are far from it... they are Seymour Duncan USA pickups licenced by Ibanez for these guitars, just as they do the same thing with Dimarzio USA.
Team, Im sorry but the council of elders has spoken....please we are not trying the heavy here just a reality check for the modern day.
Captain Ibanez |
Captainibanez
Username: Captainibanez
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 8:03 am: | |
What I was wanting to say in this earlier post is that, please do not ignore the new Korean buil Prestige models as I mentioned in the previous post.
Earlier this year on a rare visit to Australia, Yoshi Hoshino and ya O'l Cappy had a pleasent time discussing Old School...with Ibanez and its future.
Now at the end of the day , I can tell you all that the new Korean factory is only interested in quality..not quantity.
I endorse you all to take a honest look at the old school qaulity that these hardworking craftsmen are willing to produce for you....cast a side everything and take a real good look and be comfortable in the fact that there is a ongoing belief in "Old School guitar craftmanship and trust me taxdodgers...its alive and well.
Captain Ibanez |
Cmangeot
Username: Cmangeot
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:16 am: | |
Cap,
What is the outlook on more vines, or "special" or limited edition construction??? |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:36 am: | |
Cappy~
I really appreciate the 'old school' quality that you comment on. After seeing what the Chinese builders can do at Eastman Guitars, I'm convinced that luthiers from that country have top notch skills. Seems we are in a similar place with Chinese builders as we were back when Ibanez first broke into the US market. Time will tell how this new factory arrangement works to maintain the fine reputation Ibanez worked so hard to attain.
We Ibanez fans just need assurance that the quality and value of old will continue, irrespective of the marketing price-point. The Prestige and Signature models are marketed as the top products from Hoshino. Where will they be produced in the future? |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:51 am: | |
you guys need to have a real serious look at the S2075FWHS,SZ2020FMTKF & SA2020FMVV in your local Ibanez store before you start to complain
Cappy,
I am seriously considering an SA2020, but unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever run across one in a store, or be able to try one. The quality may be top notch, but the public will never know it if there are none to try.
-Sven |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 5:16 pm: | |
That is true over here in the USA they wre built to order. Unless you find used one your in trhe dark! I think Hoshino USA should send some out as samples! |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 9:45 pm: | |
Here's a question: Would you order a Japanese-only Ibanez guitar straight from Hoshino via the internet? I've seen some really cool models that were only available in Japan that I might have ordered, if it was really easy to do so. If Hoshino USA could coordinate the selection (better pictures, 360 degree viewing, complete specs), ordering and shipping processes would you spend the money to buy a high end (J-Custom, Prestige, Signature model) guitar? |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:30 pm: | |
Sure, I would do it. If there was a Japan only model that was really desirable. I've thought of ordering a blonde AS200 or a new AM200 from Ishabashi. But you'd probably end up paying retail, vs. the 30% discount you could get ordering a US model through an online retailer.
There are a few mail order houses in the US that have some of the new prestige models.
-Sven |
Captainibanez
Username: Captainibanez
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:07 am: | |
Sven, I can't see why you don't have them over there when they are part of the Prestige range.
Besides, guys if you want to order a JCustom, that can be done,we have done it "downunder" on numerous occasions for dealers who are on the Prestige Dealer program.
Captain Ibanez |
Psychoshredder
Username: Psychoshredder
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 2:42 am: | |
I purchased 4 RGs Japanese domestic model from Ishibashi, and they are all used-guitar, not brand new. The price I have to pay for each guitar (including custom duties, shipping, taxes etc) is more than a cost of buying a new RG prestige model through local distributor, but they all worth for the money. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 3:51 pm: | |
Captain,
The answer to that question goes back to Steve and John's posts. The stores here rarely stock any Ibanez guitars over $500 retail, let alone Prestige and signature models with $1000+ list prices. And I live in a major metropolitan city. So my only way to get ahold of these guitars is to buy them on the used market, try them, and sell them if I don't like them.
-Sven |
Captainibanez
Username: Captainibanez
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:41 pm: | |
Sven, that's madness 
We have Prestige Dealers all over the place "downunder" who carry these guitars on the floor...thats product commitment with out living by bargain basement rules. Still the market varies all over the world.
Captain Ibanez |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 4:45 pm: | |
Another way to play one of the high end Ibanez's is to order from an online dealer who:
1. Carries them in stock;
AND
2. Allows for a return policy if not satisfied.
That's why in another thread, I suggested we put together a network of Ibanez-friendly retailers here on the ICW site to fill the gap left by guitar stores failure to stock the 'good stuff'. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:32 am: | |
Captain,
You mention Prestige dealers in AU. Is a Prestige dealer specially sanctioned by Ibanez to carry Prestige instruments? Is there such a thing in the US?
Perhaps something that would be useful here in the states would be if there was a special link section for "Premier" dealers on the Ibanez web site. This would be a classification reserved for dealers that carry a large stock, including some high end Ibanez models. Perhaps Ibanez could offer some incentive to dealers that wanted to meet the standards.
-Sven |
Captainibanez
Username: Captainibanez
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:44 am: | |
Funkle, the Ibanez Prestige Dealer Program was started 2 years ago here and it was a open invitation to all our Ibanez dealers who wished to participate in it. Metro stores are carrying 6 Prestige models as well as the rest of the Ibanez range and Country Dealers carry 4 Prestige models as well as the rest of the Ibanez range. We then promote the Prestige range and the dealers in the program with regular color ads(2 page spreads) in a number of different Australian guitar magazines showing a wide variety of the Prestige models , and we try and mix the range around each time so at the end of a calendar year we have shown the entire Prestige range. Each dealer in every state has there name and contact details and location included in the ad. It's been a great success and even if they don't have what you want on the floor they can order it in for you.
Captain Ibanez |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 9:17 am: | |
Cappy here we have the USA made Gibson, Fender, Gretch, Rickenbacher ect. competing against Ibanez. And most of the chain guitar stores are pushing that product and mid priced Ibanez. Its a shame really because people are missing out on some nice guitars. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 5:31 pm: | |
Cappy, that sounds perfect. So why don't we have something like that in the states? I have a feeling it has to to with GC, but it's worth suggesting. There needs to be some incentive to get US dealers to stock some of these higher end models. I'd be really interested in hearing what some of the US sales reps have to say about this. Do any of the reps visit this site? It sure seems like a no brainer to me.
-Sven |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:39 pm: | |
I was surprised to see a 2002 Prestige catalog on ebay last year. I bought it and turns out it is a UK only catalog. There were a lot of nice guitars in there that I'd never seen in the States. So, the handling of Prestige instruments is country/distributor dependent.
I would LOVE to see what J-Customs are avaliable in Japan each year, too. |
Laaz
Username: Laaz
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 8:54 pm: | |
Hi John. You can always check out the new Ibanez Japanese models here : http://list5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/2084019025-category-leaf.html? |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 11:59 pm: | |
The entire line of Prestige, Signature and other 'new for 2005' models can be seen at the Ibanez Store UK site:
http://www.theibanezstore.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=e2ae431e0896b 5f9a6bf1ef117dce45b |
Jim_donahue
Username: Jim_donahue
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 12:05 am: | |
This problem has been around for a while, in Japan the price of everything is very high, Actually Korea is increasing the prices because they are loosing money and expect 15% price increases on many Korean Models, (Not only Ibaez but all companies) In korea the export to the USA (Vheck the tariff trade index) has dropped while shina is makeing 250,000 per month just to the USA,
So Korea is also going to get out priced, This is causing the Japanese guitars to be way too expensive. If say Ibanez (Other than Jackson the only standard production left in Japan from aregular company) Makes a guitar at a list of $1999 US how many can they sell? Not enough to justify making them.
China will take over soon along with Indonesia, It is not Ibanez or Hoshino's fault it is the trade issues, The Chinese Ruan is fixed to teh dollar and doe snot change so a guitar is set at $100 it stays at $100, Both the Korean Won and Japanese Yen are traded, Think of this,
The yes is 120 to $1.00 today so if Hoshino buys a guitar for $1000 today its $1000 nect week the Yen goes to 100 Yen to $1.00 that is a 20% price increase, So it now costs Hoshino $1200 to buy the same guitar from Japan. It is too hard to control. If Hoshino could sell these they would make as many they could sell but when you can by a $129.00 guitar from Fender made in China the High price market is gone.
Lets look at time
in 1997 the average price for s strat was $329.00 the lowest price
1999 $299.00
2001 $ $249,00
2004 $99.00 for a low price $139.00 for a trem model at GC
Lexas and Accura are now competing head to head with Mercedes so they are getting $45,000 for a Car, Ibanez tried to go head to head but US folks have a Gibson Fender thing.
Even teh prices of Lespauls made in the USA are cheaper than some Ibanez models.
Its a reality we need to deal with, Buy What you want now,
Jim |
Guitartim
Username: Guitartim
Registered: 04-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2005 - 4:18 pm: | |
Jim,
Thanks for the very informative reply. Looks like more and more Hoshino will be a non-Japanese producer of Ibanez guitars.
My original question remains however. Which Ibanez guitars will be made in Japan?  |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 12:06 pm: | |
Tim,
Based on what I've heard, I'd say none. The big Ibanez news at NAMM this year was that Ibanez would not be producing any guitars in Japan. FujiGen, the facility that has been making guitars in Japan for Ibanez is going out of the guitar business. All production will be primarily in Korea and China. It will be really interesting to see what the '06 catalog will look like. Ibanez has already introduced some Korean Prestige models. Will they manufacture the Signature models there as well? I have heard a rumor that Ibanez has stopped production of the GB10. Maybe this is a sign of things to come. Like Jim says, buy them now.
I do believe that we will see guitars of comparable quality coming from Korea, China and other countries.
-Sven |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 9:50 pm: | |
Sven:
The rumours that Fuji Gen are not going to be making any more guitars is not true. At least, at this time. Just about all the signature guitars are still made there. But the costs for these guitars are pretty high. Korea, China and Indonesia factories are making more and more because they can make them cheaper. |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 10:04 pm: | |
That's good news. Where did you hear this?
-Sven |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 03, 2005 - 10:17 pm: | |
Sven:
Paul Specht said this when several of us met with him at the Philly guitar show last weekend. |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 8:21 am: | |
Also Indonesea is making some models! |
Funkle
Username: Funkle
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 10:50 am: | |
John, sounds like a good source I'm very glad to hear it. I've become a big fan of FujiGen's later work, and I'd hate to see the end of that era.
-Sven |