Theories on a strange Silver Series S...

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Author Message   Doc (Doc) Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 9:35 am:    I have a '78 Silver Series Strat (picture soon) that is exactly the same as a Blonde Challenger version, small "L series" headstock with brown truss plug, skunk stripe one piece maple neck, solid ash body, staggered polepiece pickups, "lawsuit" pickguard, but has "Silver Series" in black (script logo) rather than "Challenger" in gold on the headstock. "Made in Japan" on the 4 bolt neckplate and SR:- B782514. Side by side with a regular Silver Series strat and a Challenger version, ignoring the serial number and logo, it looks identical to the Challenger, not the Silver Series. Since it's a February '78 build (I bought it new that year in Melbourne, Australia ... shortly after it came off the line) and Challengers were discontinued in January '78 (having never officially made the catalogue) here's my question Jim. You think maybe it was actually a Challenger strat that was versioned as a Silver Series so that they could move it into the retail channel in an "official" capacity, ie: they took a late build Challenger and branded it as a Silver Series since Challengers "didn't exist" anymore but the Silver Series went on to "officially" in retail represent their premier Fender style guitars by 1978 ? Would this (if reasonable, and it's all I can figure out after a lot of thought) make mine a rare guitar ? There can't be many like it I would guess, I have seen a lot of Silver Series strats over the last 25 years but never one like this, ever.   Jim_Donahue (Jim_Donahue) Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 8:26 am:    This is a difficult but simple answer, I did research this at one time because there is no mention of the Silver Series in any catalog, just the Challenger series, There is only one price list that shows Silver Series. and that is only for Three months. But the Name Silver Series became so well known? That I could not figure out. Also there was the the 2334 strat in the golden oldies catalog, but this had the truss rod adjustment from the headstock? One thing also to remember is that at that time the lawsuit with Norlan was going on so the Hoshino company was probably getting worried that Fender would also come after them so they started thinking about other ways around making the copies. Now none of this would make sense unless you know the Japanese Structure. Many of them don't really talk in detail, So maybe someone from the USA told Fritz in Japan to call them Silver Series beacuse Challenger was too much of a slap in the face to Fender, So they proceeded to try to get away from that name. there is one catalog print that i found that actually if you look at the headstock on one strat it says silver series, That is the only time I had ever seen it. So my guess is that Fritz was working on the Silver series to make them closer to a Strat and then one of the Hoshino Family members disapproved and pulled the plug, Then they started making the Roadsters. CHALLENGER SERIES Model: No. 2575 Challenger Description: "Strat," maple fb, sb Approximate Dates: 1977-78 Model: No. 2575ASH Challenger Description: "Strat," maple fb, ash Approximate Dates: 1977-78 Model: No. 2575BK Challenger Description: "Strat," maple fb, black Approximate Dates: 1977-78 Model: No. 2575WH Challenger Description: "Strat," maple fb, white Approximate Dates: 1977-78 Model: No. 2575R Challenger Description: "Strat," rw fb, sb Approximate Dates: 1977-78 Model: No. 2552ASH Challenger Description: "Tele," ash Approximate Dates: 1977-78   Doc (Doc) Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 11:28 pm:    So, I'm still at a loss. Why does my Silver Series Strat look EXACTLY like a Challenger version (blonde ash body, skunk stripe maple neck, staggered polepiece p/ups, lawsuit pickguard and small "L series" headstock) and NOT like all the other Silver Series Strats (17 so far) that I have come across ? If I had to guess I'd still say it was a blonde ash bodied Challenger with a black Silver Series logo instead of the gold Challenger one, and a Silver Series serial number. It's the only logical conclusion, although I grant you, logic may have nothing to do with it. It's a wonderful guitar, I bought it brand new in '78 and will never part with it (it was in fact my first electric guitar period) but I'm just a curious mother f888er.   Doc (Doc) Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 11:33 pm:    Ok, I see now (reread your reply) ... it was built when the Challenger was still a "viable" line of instruments (as a name to call them goes) but was sold into the retail channel as a Silver Series because the Challenger name was dropped but the guitar itself to carry that name (ie: in this example, mine) was still there to be retailed. So, it really was built as a Challenger, right ? I wonder how many others fall into this paradigm at the time (Silver Series/Challengers) My guess is, not many.   Maniac (Maniac) Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2004 - 9:01 pm:    Jim, Thank you for taking the time to help us with our never ending questions. It's very good to see you here. I am very pleased to see that there is a Challenger series Strat out there with a ROSEWOOD fretboard. Do I assume correctly that it was with a sunburst finish also? I only managed to find one sunburst finished Challenger so far and it has a F77 serial number with a maple board. I have asked this before with no results but I'll try again. Any idea on how many (roughly) Challengers were produced before they pulled the plug on them? Also, any word on the release date of the "book"?? Best regards, Mike G. (Maniac)   Jimmy Username: Jimmy Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 3:01 pm:    I have been looking for information about the Ibanez guitar that I have. There is no name on it as it had been painted a light purple color before I got it and all identification came off when I sanded the instrument. The serial number indicates that it was made in 1986. Unlike the other "strat" body Ibanez guitars I have seen, this one has a Floyd Rose bridge and different pickups than the Challenger or Silver series guitars. Can anyone give me some information about this guitar? I am including pictures of the body and the neck. Hopefully that will help.   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 5:44 pm:    Looks like an '86 RG450 Roadstar Deluxe. Check out this link for catalog info: http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/us/1986/p08.jpg   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 11:55 am:    Jim, Could it be that the 25xx serial numbers mentioned in your message, posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2004 - 8:26 am, should be 23xx? Should we consider Silver series as the successor of the Challenger series, or were Challenger and Silver series parallel series at the same time with different model numbers. I hope you can lend us a few minutes of your costly time, to separate myths from facts, since there is a hype around these models going on right now, that started with an eBay listing of a blonde Challenger Strat for $1978.- If you don't have the time, it is very useful to read this old discussion, since it isn't in the Google cache right now, and it will be after my message, so that it will be possible to make a link to it in other messages, so that your "spirit" is with us. Ginger   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Monday, May 28, 2007 - 10:22 am:    To All: Jim emailed me and asked me to post this message for him: _____________________________ Everyone: Sorry I have been so busy to get online. I have a new factory in China, so I am always traveling. I am in China now. I apologize that the Ibanez book has many mistakes, I found more probably than anyone. The reason is that I just did not have time to proofread the book before it went to print. So, I actually have a plan to make a list of all the corrections needed for the Ibanez Book. When I return, I will get on the forum and answer questions. As for issues like Challenger, Silver Series, Cimar, there are so many reasons and so many explanations as to why things like this where done. To explain will take some time. I don't claim to know everything, but I researched all the information in Japan, Los Angeles and Hoshino USA for 4 years. One problem I had was that many of my friends, who made these guitars and decisions, have grown old. I ask them and they have no memory of what happened. Also, there is no paper trail to follow, because remember back then there was no Fax Machine, no Email; only Teletype and phone calls. Sometimes there were letters by regular mail. Thanks, and I will be on to straighten out what I can. Jim Donahue President NJG Leader Musical Instruments LTD _____________________________ I suggest that we wait for Jim's further input before any continued speculation. JohnS SysOp

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